Bike doping

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May 21, 2010
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Caruut said:
Do the Germans do the same?
Theres a few teams now with in-house bikes,on the track anyway.
I dont think the bike thing is that major an inequality IMHO, having a world class velodrome, big budget talent ID program,paying your atheletes a bursary;these matter much more and will always give richer nations/programs an advantage.
 
Jun 1, 2011
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BroDeal said:
Team GB is clearly cheating with its use of non-commercial frames and components. UCI rules state that equipment must be available to everyone. Ostensibly there is an email address on one of their websites where stuff can be ordered, but it is clear that they have no intention of actually selling the gear. The Brits have been doing this for years.

What is the difference between someone figuring out how to break the doping rules and someone figuring out how to break the equipment rules? It certainly shows the mindset of Brailsford. If he can get away with breaking the rules then he will do so.
Horner said, a lot of riders thought the yellow version of the helmets where "ugly,"... not that your wrong, but I don't think the helmets are catching on. The UCI is probably "looking the other way" again for the sake of the games.
 
Feb 4, 2010
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In a world of purity and white light you should be able to waltz down to your LBS and buy one of these bikes and the reality of this bad old corrupt world you can't.

As soon as a governing body makes a rule, competitors will look for ways to bend them to the point of breaking. ("yes it's technically legal, but it's not in the spirit of the rules" CURSE them, they're not in the spirit of the rules! :mad:) It's been that way for a long, long time and unless humanity all of a sudden gets a pixie dust coating of high minded morality it's going to be that way for a long time to come . It's a cat and mouse game, people find a way to subvert the rules and in reaction the rule makers change the rules and the process starts all over again.

I'm sorry that your world of purity, 100% fair play, Mom and apple pie doesn't and has never existed Bro, but if you let this s**t bother you you're going go through life being your avatar.
 
Maybe they should make a rule that to be UCI legal only bike frames are allowed that are sold as is for less than $10K in the bike shop (which is ridiculous anyway). Still lets them use weird and prototype components, but cuts the bull**** with things like this.
 
May 19, 2012
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thanks

9000ft said:
In a world of purity and white light you should be able to waltz down to your LBS and buy one of these bikes and the reality of this bad old corrupt world you can't.

As soon as a governing body makes a rule, competitors will look for ways to bend them to the point of breaking. ("yes it's technically legal, but it's not in the spirit of the rules" CURSE them, they're not in the spirit of the rules! :mad:) It's been that way for a long, long time and unless humanity all of a sudden gets a pixie dust coating of high minded morality it's going to be that way for a long time to come . It's a cat and mouse game, people find a way to subvert the rules and in reaction the rule makers change the rules and the process starts all over again.

I'm sorry that your world of purity, 100% fair play, Mom and apple pie doesn't and has never existed Bro, but if you let this s**t bother you you're going go through life being your avatar.
for self identifying.:eek:
 
May 26, 2010
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9000ft said:
In a world of purity and white light you should be able to waltz down to your LBS and buy one of these bikes and the reality of this bad old corrupt world you can't.

As soon as a governing body makes a rule, competitors will look for ways to bend them to the point of breaking. ("yes it's technically legal, but it's not in the spirit of the rules" CURSE them, they're not in the spirit of the rules! :mad:) It's been that way for a long, long time and unless humanity all of a sudden gets a pixie dust coating of high minded morality it's going to be that way for a long time to come . It's a cat and mouse game, people find a way to subvert the rules and in reaction the rule makers change the rules and the process starts all over again.

I'm sorry that your world of purity, 100% fair play, Mom and apple pie doesn't and has never existed Bro, but if you let this s**t bother you you're going go through life being your avatar.
You seem very content to accept that instead of railing against it.

Rather be a voice railing against the corruption than the silent slave to it.

Too many with your attitude have meant it can happen.
 
It shows attitude. Some Brits are saying they morally superior to everyone else so they should not, would not, could not dope; the team comes out of the track program, which is adamantly anti-doping; Sky and Wiggins must be clean; etc. But here is clear evidence that Brailsford has no problem at all with cheating. He will use whatever methods he can get away with. This is not a one time thing. It has been going on for more than a decade. It is embedded in the culture that Brailsford has fostered. The type of guy who would put up a phony web page to pretend that their equipment is for sale is the same type of guy who would be looking at undetectable drugs.
 
Aug 29, 2010
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will10 said:
and no delivery date :D
Someone should order them - and then use the distance selling regulations to return, and keep doing it... I guess they may be "custom" to get around that...
 
Feb 4, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
You seem very content to accept that instead of railing against it.

Rather be a voice railing against the corruption than the silent slave to it.

Too many with your attitude have meant it can happen.
Nope, I'm all for enforceable rules, but almost all rules, especially when it comes to some sort of engineered manufactured items will have some fairly either intentional or unintentional grey areas and people engaged in competition will interpret those rules to the edge. They always have.

People who say "yeah, I suppose that's technically legal but not in the spirit of the rules are living in a fantasy world if they expect everyone to interpret the rules according to what one person or another thinks is the spirit of the rules. For one thing, different people will have different opinions of what that spirit is. If you expect a group that is involved with big money, high pressure professional sport with so much on the line to not take it as far as they can you're going to be disappointed a lot.
 
May 26, 2010
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9000ft said:
Nope, I'm all for enforceable rules, but almost all rules, especially when it comes to some sort of engineered manufactured items will have some fairly either intentional or unintentional grey areas and people engaged in competition will interpret those rules to the edge. They always have.

People who say "yeah, I suppose that's technically legal but not in the spirit of the rules are living in a fantasy world if they expect everyone to interpret the rules according to what one person or another thinks is the spirit of the rules. For one thing, different people will have different opinions of what that spirit is. If you expect a group that is involved with big money, high pressure professional sport with so much on the line to not take it as far as they can you're going to be disappointed a lot.
I thought the rule was pretty clear. To be commercially available. I think that is pretty easy to define, no grey areas there.
 
May 27, 2012
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9000ft said:
In a world of purity and white light you should be able to waltz down to your LBS and buy one of these bikes and the reality of this bad old corrupt world you can't.

As soon as a governing body makes a rule, competitors will look for ways to bend them to the point of breaking. ("yes it's technically legal, but it's not in the spirit of the rules" CURSE them, they're not in the spirit of the rules! :mad:) It's been that way for a long, long time and unless humanity all of a sudden gets a pixie dust coating of high minded morality it's going to be that way for a long time to come . It's a cat and mouse game, people find a way to subvert the rules and in reaction the rule makers change the rules and the process starts all over again.

I'm sorry that your world of purity, 100% fair play, Mom and apple pie doesn't and has never existed Bro, but if you let this s**t bother you you're going go through life being your avatar.
Yea, yea, we get it. Thanks for the 1 millionth version of the "everybody cheats, deal with it" speech. I'm pretty sure it's as old as cheating...:rolleyes:

As for that "****" bothering him, I don't see that **** like him posting his opinion bothering you is demonstrably different. Physician, heal thyself or something...:rolleyes::rolleyes:with a Z snap
 
Nov 26, 2010
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simo1733 said:
GB.copied the Germans.FES develops equipment for Germany, UKSI does it for GB. FES have been around since Barcelona.
FES been around long before Barcelona. Part of the marginal gains thing of the DDR.
By the way, Zabel rode a FES "Colnago" at times. And Ulrich a FES "Giant".
And half the peloton rode Cyfac "other brands" during the 90's.

My take is that Trek, specialized, giant probably bought an UKSI bike to dissect and if they have not, they think there is nothing special about it.
 
May 27, 2012
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I'm gonna buy one of those Chinese carbon frames and tell everyone it is one of the GB team frames I paid $15K for...
 
Mar 17, 2009
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BroDeal said:
It shows attitude. Some Brits are saying they morally superior to everyone else so they should not, would not, could not dope; the team comes out of the track program, which is adamantly anti-doping; Sky and Wiggins must be clean; etc. But here is clear evidence that Brailsford has no problem at all with cheating. He will use whatever methods he can get away with. This is not a one time thing. It has been going on for more than a decade. It is embedded in the culture that Brailsford has fostered. The type of guy who would put up a phony web page to pretend that their equipment is for sale is the same type of guy who would be looking at undetectable drugs.
The rules state that the products used must be commercially available. They are, that the price of the parts is not on the webpage is irrelevant.
WRT to the "morally superior" comment, you are misconstruing the comments made regarding the consequences of Wiggins etc doping. We do not have the win at all costs attitude that is prevalent in American culture plus a lot of our athletes are publicly funded via the National Lottery. That means there is a far stronger link between sport & the guy in the street in terms of expectation and standards than would exist if it was merely a government grant.
 
May 27, 2012
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ultimobici said:
The rules state that the products used must be commercially available. They are, that the price of the parts is not on the webpage is irrelevant.
WRT to the "morally superior" comment, you are misconstruing the comments made regarding the consequences of Wiggins etc doping. We do not have the win at all costs attitude that is prevalent in American culture plus a lot of our athletes are publicly funded via the National Lottery. That means there is a far stronger link between sport & the guy in the street in terms of expectation and standards than would exist if it was merely a government grant.
Yea, your budget for your small island's Olympic cycling team is in reality MORE than the USOC's budget for the same sport, so yea, you're not really in a "win at all costs" kind of atmosphere...:rolleyes: You Brits really can be as blind about your national heroes as...well, as ANY OTHER COUNTRY INCLUDING THE US. What a joke. Your blindness being the funny part.
 
ultimobici said:
The rules state that the products used must be commercially available. They are, that the price of the parts is not on the webpage is irrelevant.
WRT to the "morally superior" comment, you are misconstruing the comments made regarding the consequences of Wiggins etc doping. We do not have the win at all costs attitude that is prevalent in American culture plus a lot of our athletes are publicly funded via the National Lottery. That means there is a far stronger link between sport & the guy in the street in terms of expectation and standards than would exist if it was merely a government grant.
Hello! Ummm, this statement is false.
 

the big ring

BANNED
Jul 28, 2009
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ultimobici said:
The rules state that the products used must be commercially available. They are, that the price of the parts is not on the webpage is irrelevant.
WRT to the "morally superior" comment, you are misconstruing the comments made regarding the consequences of Wiggins etc doping. We do not have the win at all costs attitude that is prevalent in American culture plus a lot of our athletes are publicly funded via the National Lottery. That means there is a far stronger link between sport & the guy in the street in terms of expectation and standards than would exist if it was merely a government grant.
The guy in the street only knows there's a lottery sponsored UK cyclist in the world if they see a story on the evening news about them. There is no link otherwise. None at all.
 
Feb 1, 2011
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spalco said:
Hard to really tell from that page. They pretend they'd be willing to sell, yeah, but have you ever heard of anyone actually buying one? They don't even give a price tag.
Fire them an email. Ask for a quote for a single bike. I'd be curious to see what they quote you.

See if there's a discount if everyone in the clinic goes in on a group buy!
 
ultimobici said:
The rules state that the products used must be commercially available. They are, that the price of the parts is not on the webpage is irrelevant.
Putting a web page up and saying they are for sale is not the same as being for sale. Who has bought one? How many have been sold? How many competitors other than Brits are using one? The purpose of the rule is so all competitors have access to the same equipment. There is not a single non-Brit using this stuff.

The web page is scam. It is only there so the Brits can pretend the gear is available.

It looks like the win at any cost attitude is alive and well in places other than the U.S. of A.
 
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