Bin Laden dead

[Astana1]

Well, this is a complex issue.

It must be said that while each goverment is ultimately to be held accountable for its own actions, the market determinents here in terms of who is given political and military support by us have played a contributing role to the MidEast drama.

I do not share your viewpoint that would seem to suggest the Arab states live in a vaccum, especially in this age of globalization, uneffected by Western influence on their internal affairs. In fact, I'm quite sure this isn't the case and explains why recently we could so welcome the fall of a Tunisian dictator, but could not even say initially that Mubarak was one (before having to admit he was) and reluctantly give the Egytians the "best" on their new political voyage (something which Israel is particularly terrified of); and do absolutely nothing about the repression inflicted by a pro-Western monarchy upon the people of Barhain.

We may not be directly responsible, but we have tried to play the puppet-master, in order to ensure a certain regime stability congenial to our interests, though that by no means favored a climate of social progressiveness locally, within the region that has led us to give support to whomever it was economically expedient (and geopolitically oportunistic) to do so. Even when in light of other principles, like ethics, it was not.

Oh and I think all the 9-11 terrorists were Saudis, but not one was from Iraq. But which regime did we make fall? To me this, in a nutshell, disproves your argument.

And then there's Iran. With help from the CIA, Mossadeq, who wanted for Iran a lay state that had sovereignty over its own oil reserves, was assassinated by a local group of conspirators, and this begot the Scià, which begot Khomeini, which begot jihad against the West.

Messy business leads to messy results.

I deleted a paragraph in one of my posts this afternoon because I didn't want to write a book and I'll kind of summarize below.

In reference to some Arab States living in a vacuum. After I left Saudi, I went to the Command General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth (not the prison mind you). One of my classmates was a Saudi officer and since I had just come back from there I sponsored him, which basically meant that I sort of had to help him translate some of the reading and explain it to him. He wasn't stupid, his english just wasn't great.

We got to talking about books about the middle east and I lent him "The Looming Tower" and "From Beirut to Jerusalem". He read both cover to cover and I basically just gave them to him as a gift, which is actually pretty meaningful. I didn't realize it at the time, but he just couldn't get books like that in Saudi Arabia. Later on he told me that he was shocked about how little he knew. He bought like twenty copies of "The Looming Tower" and shipped them back home.

Another thing about 9/11 and SA. My impression was that this was a really sore subject that brought alot of shame on the average Saudi. I never really discussed it with alot of them, it might be like talking about Hitler and the holocaust with an older German or something. My translator, who I could be really frank with talked about a great deal and he told me that among people his age the 9/11 hijackers were a total embarassment.

Saudi is a weird case. There is heavy state censorship much more so than Tunisia and Egypt I would guess.

 

[rhubroma]

It all began when British Petroleum met with the Arab League. US meddling is a continuation of the British cause, uniting the Arab Royals to control the region and the oil.
No doubt that is why Britain and the USA supported the Jewish state, key to our interests there.
The lose of culture by the tribes began as soon as oil was discovered.
As an American I take responsability for our actions. We need to know that we have corrupted, or supported the corrupters. I only hope the best for the people there.

Such thought in the West, translated into a new MidEast foreign and economic policy, is perhaps the best way to ensure one less future Osama Bin Laden developing in the womb of Islamic radicalism that we will have to deal with sometime down the road.

It won't happen all at once and will require not an inconsiderable effort on the part of the Arabs, but it seems to me to be a more fortuitous path than the one we have been proceeding along, which obviously has led to some terrible consequences.

If the Arab desire for democracy of late, and not Al Qaeda, is any indication, perhaps they are giving things a much needed kick-start, who knows?

 

[rhubroma]

I deleted a paragraph in one of my posts this afternoon because I didn't want to write a book and I'll kind of summarize below.

In reference to some Arab States living in a vacuum. After I left Saudi, I went to the Command General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth (not the prison mind you). One of my classmates was a Saudi officer and since I had just come back from there I sponsored him, which basically meant that I sort of had to help him translate some of the reading and explain it to him. He wasn't stupid, his english just wasn't great.

We got to talking about books about the middle east and I lent him "The Looming Tower" and "From Beirut to Jerusalem". He read both cover to cover and I basically just gave them to him as a gift, which is actually pretty meaningful. I didn't realize it at the time, but he just couldn't get books like that in Saudi Arabia. Later on he told me that he was shocked about how little he knew. He bought like twenty copies of "The Looming Tower" and shipped them back home.

Another thing about 9/11 and SA. My impression was that this was a really sore subject that brought alot of shame on the average Saudi. I never really discussed it with alot of them, it might be like talking about Hitler and the holocaust with an older German or something. My translator, who I could be really frank with talked about a great deal and he told me that among people his age the 9/11 hijackers were a total embarassment.

Saudi is a weird case. There is heavy state censorship much more so than Tunisia and Egypt I would guess.

Thanks for filling me in. Probably the most powerful weapon against censorship and social control by any regime government today is what we're using right now: internet.

And glad to know you have actually developed a human relationship with some Middle Easterners. So much of what we think we know or presume about people, doesn't hold water when we actually get to know them. Not always, but often yes.

There are huge problems in that region, but establishing a human relationship must be one of the first and best ways to break down barriers and start to chip away at the antagonism and hostility, which is often played up in the mass media. This is why travel is so good, because it allows us to form our own opinions based on personal experiences and knowledge.

 

[flicker]

Thanks for filling me in. Probably the most powerful weapon against censorship and social control by any regime government today is what we're using right now: internet.

And glad to know you have actually developed a human relationship with some Middle Easterners. So much of what we think we know or presume about people, doesn't hold water when we actually get to know them. Not always, but often yes.

There are huge problems in that region, but establishing a human relationship must be one of the first and best ways to break down barriers and start to chip away at the antagonism and hostility, which is often played up in the mass media. This is why travel is so good, because it allows us to form our own opinions based on personal experiences and knowledge.

rhubroma,Astana1,
I like the way you think, enlightened,knowledgable, hats off to you.

 

[Cobblestones]

First off, I really don't believe that Arabs actually care so much about Palestine as much as they hate Israel and what they have done. Palestinians were barely second rate residents in Saudi Arabia. I dealt with the Saudis daily, and some of them I actually maintain contact with. The Palestinians were one level above the Philpinos and ****stani servants and drivers in that country. I really came away with the impression that the Palestinians were useful only as proxy fighters against Israel. And I also believe that this is a big part of the problem.

This made me laugh. You could translate it very well to the situation in the US: the born-again evangelicals, those who believe in the rapture within the next few years etc. are some of the most fervent supporters of Israel as an idea, as a step toward the second coming. And of course they're also some of the loudest voices to complain about jewish presence in Hollywood, WallStreet, the media in general etc. Kind to funny how the actual human beings in this conflict are despised by their supporters on both sides.

I think it shows how irrational it all has become.

Anyway, since this thread has seen a miraculous recovery from what seemed certain death, let me also raise a few points:

1) Palestine as a state is in fact already recognized by the vast majority of countries around the world. Virtually all countries in South America, Africa, and Asia, and many Eastern European countries have either recognized Palestine formally or have established diplomatic relations. It is no longer a question of if or when Palestine will become a country. It is a fact. It wasn't much reported, but South America was 'flipped' during the last years because of a Palestine diplomatic campaign, but also because Israel failed to make progress in the peace process in the eyes of South American diplomates.

2) Fatah and Hamas have finally found together. If the goal was to separate Palestine leadership into a Hamas controlled Gaza and a Fatah controlled West Jordan (divide and conquer), it has finally failed which I think is good news for the Palestine people. A lot of blame for the split had to be laid at the feet of the Arab leaders. But still official Israeli and US policy is to declare Hamas a terrorist organization and to refuse to talk to them. Those of you old enough to remember the IRA and Sinn Fein, will remember that such an approach will not lead anywhere. I wish that at least the US position will shift soon on this matter. Obama seems to be too much of a pragmatist.

3) If the land grab continues, the only solution open in the end will be a one state solution (some say, this point has already been crossed). Simply because there's too little left for a viable Palestinian state to exist. This argument will have to be made at one point. If Israel allows settlers in more and more areas, it should be clear to them that they're undermining the two state solution. That's without even considering the 'right to return' of Palestinian refugees.

Sorry for getting so far off topic.

 

[rhubroma]

This made me laugh. You could translate it very well to the situation in the US: the born-again evangelicals, those who believe in the rapture within the next few years etc. are some of the most fervent supporters of Israel as an idea, as a step toward the second coming. And of course they're also some of the loudest voices to complain about jewish presence in Hollywood, WallStreet, the media in general etc. Kind to funny how the actual human beings in this conflict are despised by their supporters on both sides.

I think it shows how irrational it all has become.

Anyway, since this thread has seen a miraculous recovery from what seemed certain death, let me also raise a few points:

1) Palestine as a state is in fact already recognized by the vast majority of countries around the world. Virtually all countries in South America, Africa, and Asia, and many Eastern European countries have either recognized Palestine formally or have established diplomatic relations. It is no longer a question of if or when Palestine will become a country. It is a fact. It wasn't much reported, but South America was 'flipped' during the last years because of a Palestine diplomatic campaign, but also because Israel failed to make progress in the peace process in the eyes of South American diplomates.

2) Fatah and Hamas have finally found together. If the goal was to separate Palestine leadership into a Hamas controlled Gaza and a Fatah controlled West Jordan (divide and conquer), it has finally failed which I think is good news for the Palestine people. A lot of blame for the split had to be laid at the feet of the Arab leaders. But still official Israeli and US policy is to declare Hamas a terrorist organization and to refuse to talk to them. Those of you old enough to remember the IRA and Sinn Fein, will remember that such an approach will not lead anywhere. I wish that at least the US position will shift soon on this matter. Obama seems to be too much of a pragmatist.

3) If the land grab continues, the only solution open in the end will be a one state solution (some say, this point has already been crossed). Simply because there's too little left for a viable Palestinian state to exist. This argument will have to be made at one point. If Israel allows settlers in more and more areas, it should be clear to them that they're undermining the two state solution. That's without even considering the 'right to return' of Palestinian refugees.

Sorry for getting so far off topic.

In fact in Europe Palestine is talked about as a de facto reality, however, so long as the Arab state hasn't the official placet of US and other states' (like Russian and China) recognition, it's business as usual.

And it's a calculated business. Because so long as the Palestinian state remains ambiguous, so too do matters of Israeli land acquisitions. If, on the other hand, Palestine were universally recognized as sovereign by the players that count, then Israel would hardly be able to get away with what it has.

Otherwise things would have to be treated as when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

Seem likely?

 

[Oldman]

Elisabeth Haselbeck writes a poem to explain bin laden's death to her children.

I'll need a drink or 3 to watch this.. maybe later

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/05/elisabeth_hasselbeck_wrote_a_p.html

Elisabeth Haselbeck can write? She only seems to repeat what others have said.

 

[Cobblestones]

so long as the Arab state hasn't the official placet of US and other states' (like Russian and China) recognition,

Look at the link. It does have! From Russia and China at least. It's really just the US, Canada, Australia and Western Europe missing.

So why aren't things treated like Saddam Hussein and Kuwait? It is all a matter of military might and veto power. Do you expect China or Russia to 'liberate Palestine from Israeli settlers'? Do you expect anything pass in the UN against the US veto threat? It is not surprising that frustration grows. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that this frustration can be channeled toward all kinds of actions. Against Israel, against the US and against other real or perceived roadblocks.

 

[flicker]

Curious how Palestine looks to me, an outsider like me, non jewish, non-arab,non-christian,non-muslim.
Poor Palestine, stuck between a rock and a hard place, used and abused so much like the Native Americans.
Everytime a tradition or her native tongue is spoken she is trampled, Everytime she makes a feeble attempt to fight back, bullets, bombs or rockets are launched upon her. Walls are built around her and she is confined to a dry desolate, uninhabitable land.
She has almost nothing to hold onto now, except her anger.

 

[redtreviso]

Leave it to foxnews to keep their sheep s-ting themselves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb0FsId8piM

 

[blutto]

...there is one more issue here that should be addressed here and it is nicely encapsulated in the following quote....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

He was our kind of guy until he wasn't, an ally during the Cold War until he no longer served our purposes. The problem with Osama bin Laden was not that he was a fanatical holy warrior; we liked his kind just fine as long as the infidels he targeted were not us but Russians and the secular Afghans in power in Kabul whom the Soviets backed.

But when bin Laden turned against us, he morphed into a figure of evil incarnate, and now three decades after we first decided to use him and other imported Muslim zealots for our Cold War purposes, we feel cleansed by his death of any responsibility for his carnage. We may make mistakes but we are never in the wrong. USA! USA!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the main point here is that bin Laden the hero was the product of a decision....this decision had some major gravitas within the government structure... it did result, at the very least, in the movement of a great deal of effort and material to build the stage upon which bin Laden the hero played....unfortunately it was a boneheaded decision because he turned out to be a ticking time-bomb that turned quite evil...

...the author quoted above rightfully points out that of one the mistakes to be made here is to simply have a party and sing ding **** the witch is dead as if this were an aberration and now we are be free to go on our merry way...

...the problem is that the decision making process that gave us bin Laden is virtually the same one that was at bottom of several other decisions that yielded foreign policy disasters vis a vis Maoist China, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and now the war on terror...in all cases a certain part of the US political system won battles with contrary views that history has shown may well have been the more correct way of doing things....those mistakes have usually been either simply been swept under the rug or the contrary views so demonized that they could never be taken seriously...

...at this particular time this decision making process must be examined because as much as anything the US( and by proxy The West) simply cannot afford to make another such mistake...

...and sorry to not include any specifics of the China, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan situations ...time is short tonight and writing a thesis is just not in the cards...will leave by repeating and thus underlining this thought...the M.O. for all of the above cases is eerily similar...

....safe to say though, that many of the people celebrating are those that caused the problem in the first place...for them methinks the party is about celebrating that with their creation, and the evidence contained therein, is gone and they figure they are in the clear...that shouldn't happen yet again...

Cheers

blutto

 

[The Hitch]

And why not a word now from the "Ward Churchill is perfectly defendable" brigade.

Your moral compass is so messed up I am amazed you can type.

One difference you miss ( I would say conveniently but its highly unlikely your kind knows the first thing about the subject) is that the first bin laden (the one supported in Afghanistan), wasnt ordering planes into buildings, bombs in embassies, truck bombs in mosques, the mass murder of school children.

He was a member of a resistance solely against SOLDIERS in a brutal war.

Bin laden later turned on many of the people he thought alongside to begin to practise a far more extreme ideology.

Ahmad Shah Massoud for example was later nominated for the nobel peace prize, though murdered by bin laden, the man he had fought side by side with. I suppose all the people that fought for afghan liberation side by side with bin laden are also responsible for the crimes he would comit later

And considering most of the people celebrating in the streets werent even born when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan I dont see how they are the same people responsible for the original problems, unless your using some sort of calvinism or something.

 

[blutto]

And why not a word now from the "Ward Churchill is perfectly defendable" brigade.

Your moral compass is so messed up I am amazed you can type.

One difference you miss ( I would say conveniently but its hardly unlikely your kind knows the first thing about the subject) is that the first bin laden (the one supported in Afghanistan), wasnt ordering planes into buildings, bombs in embassies, truck bombs in mosques, the mass murder of school children.

He was a member of a resistance solely against SOLDIERS in a brutal war.

Bin laden later turned on many of the people he thought alongside to begin to practise a far more extreme ideology.

Ahmad Shah Massoud for example was later nominated for the nobel peace prize, though murdered by bin laden, the man he had fought side by side with. I suppose all the people that fought for afghan liberation side by side with bin laden are also responsible for the crimes he would comit later

And considering most of the people celebrating in the streets werent even born when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan I dont see how they are the same people responsible for the original problems, unless your using some sort of calvinism or something.

...nice to see that you have found the spell-check function on your keyboard...unfortunately your reading comprehension and memory are still missing in action...good luck trying to find them...

...and a big sorry to this thread for going off topic....

Cheers

blutto

 

[rhubroma]

Look at the link. It does have! From Russia and China at least. It's really just the US, Canada, Australia and Western Europe missing.

So why aren't things treated like Saddam Hussein and Kuwait? It is all a matter of military might and veto power. Do you expect China or Russia to 'liberate Palestine from Israeli settlers'? Do you expect anything pass in the UN against the US veto threat? It is not surprising that frustration grows. And it shouldn't come as a surprise that this frustration can be channelled toward all kinds of actions. Against Israel, against the US and against other real or perceived roadblocks.

Quite true. I hadn't realized Russia and China were there, but I see that now.

No I don't expect China or Russia to do anything about Palestine, as I don't think they would care much, given that their strategic interests are different from America's and the West's.

No this is a concocted US-European thing, the main difference between the two parties being that in Europe there has always been a strong pro-Palestinian sentiment, also because the Europeans have not been so indoctrinated in having to tow the official line of their governments. I have personally witnessed public marches for the cause. Sometimes this gets chalked up (by opportunistic elements of the Americanophile center right-wing establishment, who wish to vilify any dissent over their symbiotic relationship with America in its unconditional support of Israel) as disguised anti-Semitism, which, in certain radical cases, it is among a certain class of ideologue (and usually, not ironically, within the minority fascist segment). These folks, though, in the decided minority, seem to do what was mentioned by Astan1 among the Saudis: namely, use the Palestinians as proxy warriors for their anti-Jewish cause and, in reality, care naught about them. However generally among the vast majority this isn't what it is about at all, but a distaste for Western and Israeli policy and wanting justice for the Palestinian people. No more, aside from a belief that resolving the issue will benefit everyone, the West, Israel and the Arabs.

I think there would be several European states under the right governments that would be willing to recognize Palestine, but can't so as not to anger America.

What's really terrible is how politicized it has all become, while the Palestinians continue to suffer.

In fact in any other situation but with Israel, it would be treated as when Saddam invaded Kuwait, which tells us how biased and uncivil, for strategic and ideological interests, it has become for the powerful American and European States. No wonder how this has become a contributing factor to anti-Westernism among the Arabs.

PS: Your points about Hamas and Fatah are completely valid and I totally agree that for the Palestinians' sake, they would be better off without them. But here again, the reason these groups gained in popularity and prestige was due to sheer local exasperation at having no political alternative to make a strong stand against the injustices inflicted upon them by Israel (while the US and the West, aside from the few rhetorical and lame chastisements, did nothing about it). And also in the wake of Arafat's death, who was ultimately ineffective too.

Thus the moment the Palestinians have an alternative to these groups and feel real support coming from the West given to this alternative, then, I think, things might change for the better.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Thank you for your polite question. I'm American who is not celebrating on the streets. Here's my take on those who are... most of them you see are young college students. Most of them are probably looking for a reason to party and have nothing better to do at the time. The working class who has to get up at 4:00 for another days work doesn't have the time, energy, or desire to waste time that way. Show me a working class person who's out celebrating on the streets and I'd be baffled too.

What's more, I've heard a number of servicemen call in to radio shows. When asked by the radio host to express how they felt about the fact OBL is done, all of (3) of them (2 active and 1 retired) said because of their experiences that they have a certain respect for life, even for the life of their enemies. AND they did not think that even the Navy Seals who carried out the operation were celebrating either.

Are you serious? So they are carrying on like idiots in the streets of America because they want to party about someone's death and have nothing better to do? Do those same people who do that stupid jingoistic chant "USA USA USA" realise that it is their USA who funded the Mujahedin thourgh the 1980's (which Bin laden was apart of) to overthrow the USSR who were in control of Afghanistan into governmental power? Their assistance helped Osama into power as Bin Laden then formed a faction from the Mujahedin called the Taliban which overthrew the Mujahedin ergo he was in power of Afghanistan. An american friend of mine was trying to justify their celebrations because many people were hurt from what Osama did. Yes Osama was an evil man but celebrating someone's death really is moronic. And if these college students are the future of America then I fear for the USA. The way they were acting was like that the taliban had been totally and utterly wiped out and that their would be no more terrorism.

 

[flyor64]

rhubroma,Astana1,
I like the way you think, enlightened,knowledgable, hats off to you.

Holy crap, I'm with Flicker on this one.

This thread was quite dead a few pages ago...and now revived.

I've really enjoyed the points brought up by both Rhubroma and Astana1.

I second Blutto's recommendation that this thread be allowed to stand on it's own for a bit.

 

[Astana1]

Are you serious? So they are carrying on like idiots in the streets of America because they want to party about someone's death and have nothing better to do? Do those same people who do that stupid jingoistic chant "USA USA USA" realise that it is their USA who funded the Mujahedin thourgh the 1980's (which Bin laden was apart of) to overthrow the USSR who were in control of Afghanistan into governmental power? Their assistance helped Osama into power as Bin Laden then formed a faction from the Mujahedin called the Taliban which overthrew the Mujahedin ergo he was in power of Afghanistan. An american friend of mine was trying to justify their celebrations because many people were hurt from what Osama did. Yes Osama was an evil man but celebrating someone's death really is moronic. And if these college students are the future of America then I fear for the USA. The way they were acting was like that the taliban had been totally and utterly wiped out and that their would be no more terrorism.

Bali aside. I really hope nothing that was on the scale of what we experienced happens to Australia. And if it does and we seem some strange behavior coming from some of your citizens I'll certainly do my best to extend every benefit of the doubt and understanding.

 

[Astana1]

...there is one more issue here that should be addressed here and it is nicely encapsulated in the following quote....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

He was our kind of guy until he wasn't, an ally during the Cold War until he no longer served our purposes. The problem with Osama bin Laden was not that he was a fanatical holy warrior; we liked his kind just fine as long as the infidels he targeted were not us but Russians and the secular Afghans in power in Kabul whom the Soviets backed.

But when bin Laden turned against us, he morphed into a figure of evil incarnate, and now three decades after we first decided to use him and other imported Muslim zealots for our Cold War purposes, we feel cleansed by his death of any responsibility for his carnage. We may make mistakes but we are never in the wrong. USA! USA!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
...the main point here is that bin Laden the hero was the product of a decision....this decision had some major gravitas within the government structure... it did result, at the very least, in the movement of a great deal of effort and material to build the stage upon which bin Laden the hero played....unfortunately it was a boneheaded decision because he turned out to be a ticking time-bomb that turned quite evil...

...the author quoted above rightfully points out that of one the mistakes to be made here is to simply have a party and sing ding **** the witch is dead as if this were an aberration and now we are be free to go on our merry way...

...the problem is that the decision making process that gave us bin Laden is virtually the same one that was at bottom of several other decisions that yielded foreign policy disasters vis a vis Maoist China, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and now the war on terror...in all cases a certain part of the US political system won battles with contrary views that history has shown may well have been the more correct way of doing things....those mistakes have usually been either simply been swept under the rug or the contrary views so demonized that they could never be taken seriously...

...at this particular time this decision making process must be examined because as much as anything the US( and by proxy The West) simply cannot afford to make another such mistake...

...and sorry to not include any specifics of the China, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan situations ...time is short tonight and writing a thesis is just not in the cards...will leave by repeating and thus underlining this thought...the M.O. for all of the above cases is eerily similar...

....safe to say though, that many of the people celebrating are those that caused the problem in the first place...for them methinks the party is about celebrating that with their creation, and the evidence contained therein, is gone and they figure they are in the clear...that shouldn't happen yet again...

Cheers

blutto

Blutto,

I think that saying that the US supported Bin Laden directly is a really slippery slope. The US through the ****stanis funneled arms and money to the Mujaheddin. The Mujaheddin is a large group with many groups within are often at odds with eachother.

Depending on what you read or believe the US may have favored a Mujaheddin group led by Massoud who was clearly a moderate Muslim and I think if you looked at the key players in the Afghan military today, you could probably trace many of the higher ranking Generals to Massoud.

What probably happened however is that the ****stanis favored a really ugly character in Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and there is little doubt that a significant amount of our resources went to him. That is where the connection to Bin Laden is found.

I think saying that Bin Laden was our guy really inaccurate and sloppy. He was a "friend of a friend". He was also one of scores of bored Saudis that headed to Afghanistan to fight the infidel.

I think we let the ****stanis really lead us astray on that one. More and more they are the unwanted gift that keeps on giving..

As I am sure you are aware, Bin Laden through Al Queda had Massoud killed in a suicide bomb attack as he was the leader of the Northern Alliance who opposed the Taliban.

This is why the statement that the Mujaheddin that the US supported "coalesced" into the Taliban is also sloppy and inaccurate. Some of them definitely did but some of them continue to fight the Taliban today.

 

[Archibald]

Can someone please explain why the photos of a dead bin-laden pose a "security risk" to the US??
wtf is Obama on about now??
I smell a rat...

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Are you serious? So they are carrying on like idiots in the streets of America because they want to party about someone's death and have nothing better to do? Do those same people who do that stupid jingoistic chant "USA USA USA" realise that it is their USA who funded the Mujahedin thourgh the 1980's (which Bin laden was apart of) to overthrow the USSR who were in control of Afghanistan into governmental power? Their assistance helped Osama into power as Bin Laden then formed a faction from the Mujahedin called the Taliban which overthrew the Mujahedin ergo he was in power of Afghanistan. An american friend of mine was trying to justify their celebrations because many people were hurt from what Osama did. Yes Osama was an evil man but celebrating someone's death really is moronic. And if these college students are the future of America then I fear for the USA. The way they were acting was like that the taliban had been totally and utterly wiped out and that their would be no more terrorism.

Yes I am serious. I said,

most of them you see are young college students. Most of them are probably looking for a reason to party and have nothing better to do at the time.

Did you see the live video? Lots of young faces with University frat shirts/ sweatshirts. Let's see... oh yeah, there's students. If they really had something better to do, what were they doing there??? Oh yeah, you said they were idiots. Do they realize this is the same USA that funded this or that in the '80's??? H3ll no, they weren't even born yet. So how would they have an appreciation for any of that? When the WTC attack happened they were only 8 to 10 years old. When you were 8 YO, did you really have a full appreciation for world events at that time? Doubt it. So what were they doing there? Hence my take on it. The USA chant... that's a patriotic thing that I'm fine with... you can't read much else into it other than that. The rest of what you say I can't deny... from the part about ppl being hurt and so on. Some were probably out there feeling like that. But I said MOST.

 

[Clearly Unstable]

Can someone please explain why the photos of a dead bin-laden pose a "security risk" to the US??
wtf is Obama on about now??
I smell a rat...

Tin foil please......

"America" frequently puts its own foot in its mouth but clearly there are excellent reason to not release the photos and no really good ones

 

[Cobblestoned]

and more

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-67617.html

 

[Anonymous]

i like this one best

 

[Astana1]

Tin foil please......

"America" frequently puts its own foot in its mouth but clearly there are excellent reason to not release the photos and no really good ones

Obama said it best: "We don't need to spike the football". 'nuff said.

 

[Astana1]

and more

That's clearly the best one.