Blood doped. What can I expect?

[Danishdoper]

Hello everyone. I hope you understand my English
I am going to be a part of an experiment where I will be blood doped. I have to donate 450 ml blood and a month after I will get it back. The HCT should be around 60 in the reinjection.
Is this enough to give me a remarkable boost?
The experiment is legal and a purpose of trying to find a method to detect autologous transfusions.

 

[forty four]

interesting let us know how it goes. my hematocrit is 43 pretty average i can imagine being at 50+ would have quite an effect.

 

[RedheadDane]

I really do hope this is some kind of lame joke...

 

[theswordsman]

Thank you for participating. A test like that would be huge. Enjoy your time as Superman

 

[stephens]

I'd be happy to sign up for a study like that. Just for once I'd like to feel what it'd be like to ride/run with a hematocrit of 50 instead of my 35.

As for what to expect, read this article for one guy's experience:

http://outside.away.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

 

[issoisso]

I'd be happy to sign up for a study like that. Just for once I'd like to feel what it'd be like to ride/run with a hematocrit of 50 instead of my 35.

A danish guy who is an amateur marathonist tried doing that for a while. He rode up Alpe d'Huez a few times before and after a 2 week EPO treatment.
Performance aside, just focusing on what it feels like, he said it made him far more aggressive and he kept wanting to ride fast regardless of the circumstances.

At one point he used the words "I wanted to attack the road like it was flat". This was Alpe d'Huez, mind.

 

[ElChingon]

I'd recommend Life Insurance to allow for that or if you have it make sure your test is covered by it.

 

[Magnus]

I'd recommend Life Insurance to allow for that or if you have it make sure your test is covered by it.

I really do hope this is some kind of lame joke...

Why is that?

 

[cathulu]

Answer this question - why do you think the hematocrit level was set at 50%?

This is obviously someone yanking a chain...

 

[Danishdoper]

Sorry, I think you misunderstood.
I do not know my HCT level right now. It is the HCT level of the reinjected content that would be 60%.

 

[Indurain]

Better get advice from Riis. He's the only pro athlete I know who has regularly been as high as 60%. Could ask Pantani, but unfortunately he's dead.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Better get advice from Riis. He's the only pro athlete I know who has regularly been as high as 60%. Could ask Pantani, but unfortunately he's dead.

you could tweet Lance too....

his was 49.9 when tested

 

[Cerberus]

Better get advice from Riis. He's the only pro athlete I know who has regularly been as high as 60%. Could ask Pantani, but unfortunately he's dead.

AFAIK Riis got the nickname mr. 60 percent because the Festina riders charged to the mid-50 and assumed that anyone who beat them must have had a higher %. There is to the best of my knowledge no actual evidence of what percentage Riis did charge to. Of cause if any such evidence exists I'd be happy to see it but a nickname=/ evidence.

 

[DarkWing]

IIRC Berzin was the real mr 60%, I think the highest reported HCT of Riis was about 57%

 

[Animal]

Answer this question - why do you think the hematocrit level was set at 50%?

This is obviously someone yanking a chain...

No it's not. They still have to experiment to find things out y'know!

 

[Ex-trackie]

This must be the study at the Copenhagen Muscle Research Centre.

Have fun and enjoy it while you can. Give them some good data!

 

[Brooks Fahey Baldwin]

Thats a high crit they are getting to.

It probably wont be that high to begin with. You will have all of the plasma tranfused with too.

Anyhow, there is a protein in blood that is important in the bonding of haemoglobin to oxygen. Ive forgotten its name and really cant be bothered working through the textbooks to find it at this hour of the night. However, it takes the body a couple of days before it can put all of those transfused erythrocytes to good use.

Give it two days and you should be flying. Especially if you are a trained athlete already. Make sure you let us know how it goes.

I once performed a wee experiment on myself with ecchinacea. I took an iron pill a day and 8 ecchinacea tablets a day for a month. The crit went from 43 to 47.
It was hardly a well controlled double blind test, and would clearly be open to placebo effect etc. But the main things i noticed were a mild increase in threshold power, but more importantly I didnt get tired very easily. I felt fairly fresh at the end of a hard ride and at my limit I didnt feel so stressed as I did previously. Recovery seemed mildy better too.

Small difference there, but interesting feelings came from it. Although I would consider it a bit didgy and wouldnt bother doing so again.

 

[stephens]

Guys, read the OP again. He's not boosting to 60%. He says that the blood that will be reinjected will be at 60%. Since that's a fraction of the blood in his body, the overall rise in hematocrit will be quite low, each time.

 

[santacruz]

careful dude you can die in your sleep from this "test" of yours.. eat plenty of natural blood thinners every single day, like garlic, fish oil, onions, look up the rest..

 

[Felgen]

Hi Danishdoper,
I don't know how big the effects of your treatment will be, but I think experiences from a similar research project on EPO in Norway in the late 90s may be of interest to you - and many others here.
You are probably able to read these norwegian articles (others could try Google translation):
http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/tour-de-france/2008/artikkel.php?artid=194660
http://www.dagbladet.no/sport/2002/03/13/318772.html
Both athletes reported a 10-15% increase in VO2 after 4 weeks on EPO.
The triathlete says he lost all motivation to compete and retired after the project when he realized he would never be able to get back to the level that he had during those weeks.
The cyclist was unable to do easy workouts when on EPO.
Scary stuff...

 

[Danishdoper]

Guys, read the OP again. He's not boosting to 60%. He says that the blood that will be reinjected will be at 60%. Since that's a fraction of the blood in his body, the overall rise in hematocrit will be quite low, each time.

Thank you, that is what I mean!

 

[Escarabajo]

careful dude you can die in your sleep from this "test" of yours.. eat plenty of natural blood thinners every single day, like garlic, fish oil, onions, look up the rest..

I am sure it will be supervised by a Doctor or Doctors. So I hope.

 

[onefastgear]

Thats a high crit they are getting to.

Anyhow, there is a protein in blood that is important in the bonding of haemoglobin to oxygen. Ive forgotten its name and really cant be bothered working through the textbooks to find it at this hour of the night. However, it takes the body a couple of days before it can put all of those transfused erythrocytes to good use.

That's 2,3 DPG. It helps with the offloading of O2 at the tissue level. Levels of 2,3 DPG fall in stored blood (can't find a reason why), and it takes some time to return to normal.

Could that be the marker to use for autologous transfusions?

 

[Brooks Fahey Baldwin]

That's 2,3 DPG. It helps with the offloading of O2 at the tissue level. Levels of 2,3 DPG fall in stored blood (can't find a reason why), and it takes some time to return to normal.

Could that be the marker to use for autologous transfusions?

Interesting idea. You would once again have a short window in which to catch someone. But then, if you could devise a test for it, some smart lab cookie is probably already on it.

At least the testers would have a fair idea as to just when dopers would be taking their transfutions.
The only complication is the likelyhood that dopers are moving away from transfutions and on to gene doping. Or if you listen to greentea, they are all on creatine

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Thats a high crit they are getting to.

It probably wont be that high to begin with. You will have all of the plasma tranfused with too.

Anyhow, there is a protein in blood that is important in the bonding of haemoglobin to oxygen. Ive forgotten its name and really cant be bothered working through the textbooks to find it at this hour of the night. However, it takes the body a couple of days before it can put all of those transfused erythrocytes to good use.

Give it two days and you should be flying. Especially if you are a trained athlete already. Make sure you let us know how it goes.

I once performed a wee experiment on myself with ecchinacea. I took an iron pill a day and 8 ecchinacea tablets a day for a month. The crit went from 43 to 47.
It was hardly a well controlled double blind test, and would clearly be open to placebo effect etc. But the main things i noticed were a mild increase in threshold power, but more importantly I didnt get tired very easily. I felt fairly fresh at the end of a hard ride and at my limit I didnt feel so stressed as I did previously. Recovery seemed mildy better too.

Small difference there, but interesting feelings came from it. Although I would consider it a bit didgy and wouldnt bother doing so again.

Curious how you measured your crit?