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Boasson only guy who can beat Cav for the green jersey

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Nov 17, 2009
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hektoren said:
Cav tried to cheat by trying to drive Hushovd into the fence, got caught and was relegated even before Cervelo made an official complaint. Cav's own stupitidy kept him from winning the green, the officials just went by the book. Implying that the green jersey was snapped off a deserved winner by stupid officials takes a loyal fanboy with blinders.

Cav was trying to sprint as slowly as possible to win the sprint in order to give Hincappie a chance at yellow.

I don't want to discuss if what he did was against the rules or not... I'll accept that it was. But he wasn't "trying to cheat". If you think he didn't have the ability to ride a bit harder and take the points easily, you didn't watch the tour last year. He tried to ride slow and still take the bunch sprint... and screwed up.

Selflessness cost him the points, trying to help a teammate out while not hurting himself.

Cav was clearly the best sprinter in the tour last year. He was never beaten in any group sprint he made it to the end with. If that doesn't make him the favorite, I don't know what should. The fact is without the relegation he would have finished in green. I'm not saying Thor didn't win it (he did). I'm simply saying that counting on another relegation when predicting next year's results doesn't seem that smart.

If I'm going to name a favorite... I'll take the guy who won 15 GT sprint stages in the last 2 years over the guy who's won 2.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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kurtinsc said:
Cav is by far and away the favorite. He literally was never beaten in a group spint in the tour last year.

Well, stage 6 of TdF ended in a bunch sprint in Barcelona, and Hushovd won. Cav was no. 17.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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ingsve said:
Except for stage 6 to Barcelona where Hushovd won and Cavendish was further down in the peloton at 16th.

As for the relegation, it's impossible to tell what would have happened if Cav hadn't been relegated. The standing in the point competition would have been different for the remaining stages so the way they all acted would also have been different.

Pardon me if I don't qualify that as a group spint.

Cav also finished behind Pellizotti, Ballan, Nocentini, Evans, Cancellera, Kloden, Andy Schleck and Nibali.

Those are the kinds of stages where people will have to gain ground of cav. The more fighting for the win on those stages (instead of one guy picking up top points on all of them), the better it works out for cav. It also works out better if more guys make the finish and fight for second behind Cav on the sprints. If Cav wins a ton of stages and one guy doesn't take most of the second places (like Thor did last year), it makes it harder to make up ground.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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kurtinsc said:
Pardon me if I don't qualify that as a group spint.

Cav also finished behind Pellizotti, Ballan, Nocentini, Evans, Cancellera, Kloden, Andy Schleck and Nibali.

Those are the kinds of stages where people will have to gain ground of cav. The more fighting for the win on those stages (instead of one guy picking up top points on all of them), the better it works out for cav. It also works out better if more guys make the finish and fight for second behind Cav on the sprints. If Cav wins a ton of stages and one guy doesn't take most of the second places (like Thor did last year), it makes it harder to make up ground.

What you actually mean is that a it's not a group/bunch sprint if it isn't flat.
It WAS a bunch/group sprint, albeit uphill, and Cav was beat fair and square, in sharp contradiction to your statement that he literally wasn't beat in any bunch sprint last year.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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hektoren said:
What you actually mean is that a it's not a group/bunch sprint if it isn't flat.
It WAS a bunch/group sprint, albeit uphill, and Cav was beat fair and square, in sharp contradiction to your statement that he literally wasn't beat in any bunch sprint last year.

Unless, of course, you really mean that any bunch sprint that isn't won by Cav isn't really a bunch sprint, because Cav didn't win!:D
 
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ingsve said:
I too hope that the green jersey won't be a goal for EBH. I can't speak for maltiv but when I mean by that is that I hope EBH won't simply focus on being a bunch sprinter which is what it would take to realistically have the green jersey as a goal. .

two words. Sean Kelly
 
Nov 17, 2009
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hektoren said:
What you actually mean is that a it's not a group/bunch sprint if it isn't flat.
It WAS a bunch/group sprint, albeit uphill, and Cav was beat fair and square, in sharp contradiction to your statement that he literally wasn't beat in any bunch sprint last year.

Very well.

I'll amend it to:

"He wasn't beaten in any bunch sprint other then ones where Frano Pellizotti managed to finish in the top 5."

I was trying to make a point about him dominating everyone else in sprint finishes. I didn't think a stage where multiple climbers finished in the top 10, only 43 riders finished on the lead time and riders who finished more then 5 minutes back included Farrar, Renshaw, Napolitano, Boonen and Haussler qualified as a group sprint stage... but I guess I was mistaken.
 
Sep 18, 2009
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ImmaculateKadence said:
You do realize the only reason Thor won Green was because of Cav's relegation? It cost him 14 points; Thor won Green by 10 points. It's not a given that Cav wins the jersey (nothing in the Tour is a given), but he is by far the favorite, no question.

I might be wrong here, but did not Thor state he took it easy on the the final stage to be safe? Which would have cost him the points. Having seen it on norwegian tv at least thats the impression I am elft with, but obv norwegian would be a tad biased.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Sensation said:
I might be wrong here, but did not Thor state he took it easy on the the final stage to be safe? Which would have cost him the points. Having seen it on norwegian tv at least thats the impression I am elft with, but obv norwegian would be a tad biased.

I'm not sure if Thor said that or not. I know he finished 6th and only seemed to stick to Cav's wheel. He wasn't anywhere near him in the final stretch, thanks to Columbia's excellent lead-out, so he may just have been trying to finish before 16 to hold the jersey.

If Cav had the jersey going into the final stages,I suspect we would have seen a different, more aggressive Thor.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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hektoren said:
Cav tried to cheat by trying to drive Hushovd into the fence, got caught and was relegated even before Cervelo made an official complaint. Cav's own stupitidy kept him from winning the green, the officials just went by the book. Implying that the green jersey was snapped off a deserved winner by stupid officials takes a loyal fanboy with blinders.

very few people agree with that opinion. imo, the green jersey was decided off the road last year and we were denied a really epic battle on the Champs Elysee by the officals. I'm not denying either rider their dues here, just calling it like I saw it.

to call Cavendish favourite for the green this year is premature. so far, we haven't seen him ride. we have no idea of form. at the moment he is probably 3rd or 4th favourite behind EBH, Hushovd and possibly Farrar/Petacchi. once we've seen Cavendish ride this season we'll have a better idea.
 
Oct 16, 2009
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ImmaculateKadence said:
I'm not sure if Thor said that or not. I know he finished 6th and only seemed to stick to Cav's wheel. He wasn't anywhere near him in the final stretch, thanks to Columbia's excellent lead-out, so he may just have been trying to finish before 16 to hold the jersey.
Everyone but Cavendish and Renshaw were "taken out" by Julian Dean and Tyler Farrar on the final corner before the Champs-Élysées. See it here at 0:45 and 1:30: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCUD0CPKJSM
 
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Von Mises said:
If he wants to replicate Kelly´s top 10 places or even a win in Grand Tours, he has to improve climbing skills. A lot.

I dont think he will match Kelly in green jersey wins, cavendish is too much of a problem for that.

Classic wins, and a possible vuelta, you never know.

Paris - Nice, i dont think anyone will ever match Kelly on that one. But as far as classics goes which is what people really remember kelly for, I think EbH can match him..

9 stages into his season and miles from form:
1st Stage 3 Tour of Oman
3rd Stage 2 Tour of Oman (took over race leaders jersey)
2nd Stage 1 Tour of Oman
3rd Stage 5 Tour of Qatar
1st TTT Tour Of Qatar (wore leaders jersey)

He's not doing bad.. Imagine when he comes into "Form"
 
dimspace said:
two words. Sean Kelly

I think the times have change since Sean Kellys time and sprinters are alot more specialized now it seems. I doubt that it's possible for anyone to really mix climbing and sprinting skills in any meaningful way like Sean Kelly.

Also I not sure but haven't the points awarded for various stages in the Tour changed alot as well to make sure that only pure sprinters can compete for the green jersey.
 
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ingsve said:
Just read the Merckx interview where he said that EBH is "...thinner and stronger...". Does anyone know if he has actually lost any weight over new years?

No, but i know someone who will. Will try find out.

At the moment hes 76kg with a vo2 off the charts, hes not far from being the rider he can be.
 
dimspace said:
I dont think he will match Kelly in green jersey wins, cavendish is too much of a problem for that.

Classic wins, and a possible vuelta, you never know.

Paris - Nice, i dont think anyone will ever match Kelly on that one. But as far as classics goes which is what people really remember kelly for, I think EbH can match him..

9 stages into his season and miles from form:
1st Stage 3 Tour of Oman
3rd Stage 2 Tour of Oman (took over race leaders jersey)
2nd Stage 1 Tour of Oman
3rd Stage 5 Tour of Qatar
1st TTT Tour Of Qatar (wore leaders jersey)

He's not doing bad.. Imagine when he comes into "Form"

I think that racing has changed with last 25 years. From one side, teams are more organized and more professional (and some sense more boring and more predictable). And from another side, riders are more specialized: sprinters, climbers, stage racers, classic specialists.

I cant see that kind of opportunistic riding a la Kelly can be so successful any more. For instance, I dont think that Kelly with his climbing skills could finish today´s Tour with 4 place or win a Vuelta.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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dimspace said:
At the moment hes 76kg with a vo2 off the charts, hes not far from being the rider he can be.

Physically you may be right, even though several seasons worth of punishing exertion may toughen him and make him a leaner and meaner machine. He's already extremely agile, flexible, technically competent and furnished with a big-block engine, but I believe there's still room for improvement. Not least of all in the tactical department.
Just my five cents worth.
 
Jan 8, 2010
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hektoren said:
And why do you (as to the green jersey as a goal) "hope it never will be"?
He has shown numerous times that he "can" sprint, he does a very passable TT, and he can collect intermediate sprinter's points. But he's not a pure climber, and hence not a candidate for the yellow jersey. The logical conclusion would be to go for green.

How about a little less patriotism and open your eyes to the reality?
I could understand this would be a topic if he takes a sprint in one of the bigger stage races, but seriously Tour of Oman? EBH neither got the top speed or the experience to be a contender for the green jersey.
However Wiggins will be there as the captain and eddy to gain experience. A stage win may be realistic, even at one of the flat stages, but don't keep your expectations too high.


Also arrest me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Edvald going for the points at last years giro?
 
LugHugger said:
very few people agree with that opinion. imo, the green jersey was decided off the road last year and we were denied a really epic battle on the Champs Elysee by the officals. I'm not denying either rider their dues here, just calling it like I saw it.

to call Cavendish favourite for the green this year is premature. so far, we haven't seen him ride. we have no idea of form. at the moment he is probably 3rd or 4th favourite behind EBH, Hushovd and possibly Farrar/Petacchi. once we've seen Cavendish ride this season we'll have a better idea.

If we can't judge Cavendish now, we can't judge Hushovd either, he will do his first race tomorrow in Portugal:)

IMHO this discussion is a bit marred by fantasy. Let's give Boasson Hagen credit for what he's acchieved so far in his young career, but to compare him with Cav, Thor etc. at this point is a bit too much. We haven't seen him racing against the massive sprint competition, he'll have to race at Tour De France. On the other hand, he seems to be able to do anything he sets his mind to, so who knows?

To me, both sides in this discussion have legitimate reasons to believe what they believe.... and it's hard to predict this soon in the season, where almost all riders are at 70-80 % form. Let's wait and see after the Giro....:cool:
 
Aug 16, 2009
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He'll be there to ride for Wiggo. I don't think they can ride for a podium spot and to get EBH in green. The guy might be able to do it, but I don't think this is his year. I think Cav his his sights on it and a good chance at it. Now if Robbie is back this year, we may see some real relegation, none of that sissy Cav riding Thor into the boards stuff.