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Bolt: 9:58 Now that`s fast.

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Apr 1, 2009
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elapid said:
However, meth, like coke, are both performance-enhancing when used in competition, not out-of-competition. Cousins's drug use was recreational and social (and addictive), not for performance-enhancing.
But can you really say that?

Amphetamines are performance enhancing. Look at how much they are used in cycling - e.g. Tom Simpson, read the book "A Dog in a Hat" by Joe Parkin. If they make you feel less tired, more aggressive, more unbreakable, then that is perfect for AFL or NRL. And Cousins was playing his best footy when he was using the most gear.

In addition, if someone's moral compass sees no issue with using industrial quantities of illegal drugs, do you think they would have a problem with using PEDs? I doubt it very much and again refer you to Cousins physique, particularly when he was at the Eagles and became huge VERY quickly at a club with plenty of steroid use back in the early 1990s at least.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
But can you really say that?

Amphetamines are performance enhancing. Look at how much they are used in cycling - e.g. Tom Simpson, read the book "A Dog in a Hat" by Joe Parkin. If they make you feel less tired, more aggressive, more unbreakable, then that is perfect for AFL or NRL. And Cousins was playing his best footy when he was using the most gear.

In addition, if someone's moral compass sees no issue with using industrial quantities of illegal drugs, do you think they would have a problem with using PEDs? I doubt it very much and again refer you to Cousins physique, particularly when he was at the Eagles and became huge VERY quickly at a club with plenty of steroid use back in the early 1990s at least.

Amphetamines are otherwise known as speed. They don't stay in your system for long. So yes, I can really say what I said: "meth, like coke, are both performance-enhancing when used in competition, not out-of-competition". They are performance enhancing if used in competition, like Tom Simpson and like described in "A Dog in a Hat" which I have also read. However, they are not performance enhancing when they are not used in competition because they don't stay in your system that long to have the benefits, like Boonen.

And you should really read my posts before commenting on them. To say this:

patswana said:
In addition, if someone's moral compass sees no issue with using industrial quantities of illegal drugs, do you think they would have a problem with using PEDs? I doubt it very much ...

When I have already agreed with this statement in the post that you are quoting when I wrote: "I can certainly buy Galic Ho's argument that any drug use (or addiction) is testament to a state of mind that accepts this behaviour as normal."

Lastly, in relation to Ben Cousins, your time line is wrong. I believe he started going off the rails in 2006 (there were accusations of less than desirable associations with underworld figures in both 2001 and 2005, but not drugs) with his odd behaviour and then obvious addictions, but look at his palmares prior to 2006:
- Norwich Rising Star Award 1996
- All-Australian 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002
- West Coast best and fairest 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005; runner-up 1998
- Brownlow Medal winner 2005

Yet in 2006, when he was definitely on drugs, his season was a debacle. In 2007, he was suspended by the AFL.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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patswana said:
In addition, if someone's moral compass sees no issue with using industrial quantities of illegal drugs, do you think they would have a problem with using PEDs? I doubt it very much and again refer you to Cousins physique, particularly when he was at the Eagles and became huge VERY quickly at a club with plenty of steroid use back in the early 1990s at least.

Yeah, I don't trust that Mick Malthouse, when he was training the Eagles they all became huge. Dirty Victorians!! Long live the VFL ;)

Now where were we?
 
Aug 17, 2009
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elapid said:
Amphetamines are otherwise known as speed. They don't stay in your system for long. So yes, I can really say what I said: "meth, like coke, are both performance-enhancing when used in competition, not out-of-competition". They are performance enhancing if used in competition, like Tom Simpson and like described in "A Dog in a Hat" which I have also read. However, they are not performance enhancing when they are not used in competition because they don't stay in your system that long to have the benefits, like Boonen.

And you should really read my posts before commenting on them. To say this:

Training on amphetamines is performance enhancing. The ability to train harder than you normally would is going to give a benefit providing proper recovery is undertaken not to mention the fat burning benefit of speed.

Not sure exactly how af/nrl players feel about their skin folds and lean body mass but would imagine that getting lean is performance enhancing especially in AFL.

People concerned with weight and body image will often avoid alcohol and prefer a night out on the gear to avoid the calories and dance off a bit fat. I am sure that footy players are no different.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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LastRide said:
Training on amphetamines is performance enhancing. The ability to train harder than you normally would is going to give a benefit providing proper recovery is undertaken not to mention the fat burning benefit of speed.

Not sure exactly how af/nrl players feel about their skin folds and lean body mass but would imagine that getting lean is performance enhancing especially in AFL.

People concerned with weight and body image will often avoid alcohol and prefer a night out on the gear to avoid the calories and dance off a bit fat. I am sure that footy players are no different.

I definitely agree with the training. Sport is the job of these athletes. If their social drug use affects their job, either in training or actual competition, then they should face the consequences, just like any other employee who has to take drug tests.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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elapid said:
Lastly, in relation to Ben Cousins, your time line is wrong. I believe he started going off the rails in 2006 (there were accusations of less than desirable associations with underworld figures in both 2001 and 2005, but not drugs) with his odd behaviour and then obvious addictions, but look at his palmares prior to 2006:
- Norwich Rising Star Award 1996
- All-Australian 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002
- West Coast best and fairest 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005; runner-up 1998
- Brownlow Medal winner 2005

Yet in 2006, when he was definitely on drugs, his season was a debacle. In 2007, he was suspended by the AFL.
Worsfold became coach in 2002. He has said that the rumours about Ben's drug use were there when he first started coaching the Weasles. Dalton Gooding has said similar things, as well as saying that Cousins is a pathological liar and that he would never trust a single thing he said.

Back in 2003 or so, Cousins was regularly doing lines of coke in Perth nightclubs on the bar in full view of other patrons.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
Worsfold became coach in 2002. He has said that the rumours about Ben's drug use were there when he first started coaching the Weasles. Dalton Gooding has said similar things, as well as saying that Cousins is a pathological liar and that he would never trust a single thing he said.

Back in 2003 or so, Cousins was regularly doing lines of coke in Perth nightclubs on the bar in full view of other patrons.

Well, if you look at his awards and achievements, then it appears drug use has adversely affected his on-field performance because other than the Brownlow Medal (yeah, its a biggie), all of his other awards and achievements are 2003 or before.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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elapid said:
Well, if you look at his awards and achievements, then it appears drug use has adversely affected his on-field performance because other than the Brownlow Medal (yeah, its a biggie), all of his other awards and achievements are 2003 or before.

Hmmm, very weird logic there.
His illicit drug use was obviously an issue prior to 2002 if Worsfold knew about it when he first started as coach. That is very different to saying that he first used in 2002. His best footy was in and around 2005. (Incidentally, he doubled in size in the off season between 2000 and 2001.)

By the way, why do you feel this urge to defend this overpaid, drugged up, unrepentant narcissist? Do you have a man crush?
 
patswana said:
Hmmm, very weird logic there.
His illicit drug use was obviously an issue prior to 2002 if Worsfold knew about it when he first started as coach. That is very different to saying that he first used in 2002. His best footy was in and around 2005. (Incidentally, he doubled in size in the off season between 2000 and 2001.)

By the way, why do you feel this urge to defend this overpaid, drugged up, unrepentant narcissist? Do you have a man crush?

Cousins has been on it for years & it's been an open secret in the AFL for years.
That's why Worsfold's response/attitude was so disappointing. Being a qualified pharmacist, you'd think he would know that all drug addicts are liars. Also, saying that he wouldnt know what an ecstacy tablet looks like??? Ridiculous.

BTW... there are a couple of Hawthorn players who needed to be 'iced up' regularly. Didnt affect them too much.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
Hmmm, very weird logic there.
His illicit drug use was obviously an issue prior to 2002 if Worsfold knew about it when he first started as coach. That is very different to saying that he first used in 2002. His best footy was in and around 2005. (Incidentally, he doubled in size in the off season between 2000 and 2001.)

By the way, why do you feel this urge to defend this overpaid, drugged up, unrepentant narcissist? Do you have a man crush?

OK, get your facts right. I'm not in the know here regarding when he started taking drugs. I went off his obvious derailment in 2006. You then tell me it was 2003 and so I compare this to his palmares. Now you are telling me it was before 2002. Get your story straight. You're obviously not good at this when you deliberately misquote me and then change years of drug use with each new post.

And why do I defend him? Firstly, he is by no means unrepentant. Secondly, he is an addict and I do not think the correct course of action for an addict is to abandon them and make them pay permanently for their mistakes. Thirdly, everyone, even the likes of you and me, deserve a second chance. If he stuffs up his second chance, then throw the book at him. Until then, he deserves his second chance IMO. I have the same thoughts on dopers in cycling and for people that make mistakes in life.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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elapid said:
OK, get your facts right. I'm not in the know here regarding when he started taking drugs. I went off his obvious derailment in 2006. You then tell me it was 2003 and so I compare this to his palmares. Now you are telling me it was before 2002. Get your story straight. You're obviously not good at this when you deliberately misquote me and then change years of drug use with each new post.

And why do I defend him? Firstly, he is by no means unrepentant. Secondly, he is an addict and I do not think the correct course of action for an addict is to abandon them and make them pay permanently for their mistakes. Thirdly, everyone, even the likes of you and me, deserve a second chance. If he stuffs up his second chance, then throw the book at him. Until then, he deserves his second chance IMO. I have the same thoughts on dopers in cycling and for people that make mistakes in life.

Weird, very weird.

I'll re-post what I said:

Worsfold became coach in 2002. He has said that the rumours about Ben's drug use were there when he first started coaching the Weasles. Dalton Gooding has said similar things, as well as saying that Cousins is a pathological liar and that he would never trust a single thing he said.

Back in 2003 or so, Cousins was regularly doing lines of coke in Perth nightclubs on the bar in full view of other patrons.

Now I'm not quite sure how you read that I said he "started" in 2003 from that but that is an issue for you and your primary school teachers to address.

As for being unrepentant, he is on the radio every week now and nothing he says that suggests even a degree of remorse, but rather a desire to get back to the good old days.

And as far as second chances go, he had plenty more than two chances before. Whether it was the drug use itself, the running from the booze bus and swimming across the Swan River because he had a few grams of coke on him at the time, the deliveries he made to Mainwaring the night that he died, the punch up with Kerr, the night with him and Chick and the six nude women as well as the $10,000 worth of coke thrown out the window by his ex followed by Chick hitting Embley etc etc.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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patswana said:
Weird, very weird.

I'll re-post what I said:



Now I'm not quite sure how you read that I said he "started" in 2003 from that but that is an issue for you and your primary school teachers to address.

As for being unrepentant, he is on the radio every week now and nothing he says that suggests even a degree of remorse, but rather a desire to get back to the good old days.

And as far as second chances go, he had plenty more than two chances before. Whether it was the drug use itself, the running from the booze bus and swimming across the Swan River because he had a few grams of coke on him at the time, the deliveries he made to Mainwaring the night that he died, the punch up with Kerr, the night with him and Chick and the six nude women as well as the $10,000 worth of coke thrown out the window by his ex followed by Chick hitting Embley etc etc.

Talk about weird. You misquote me on at least two occasions. Then you accuse me of getting my dates wrong when you state:

patswana said:
Back in 2003 or so, Cousins was regularly doing lines of coke in Perth nightclubs

patswana said:
His illicit drug use was obviously an issue prior to 2002

So go back to your primary school teacher and ask them to work it out. I have not lived in Australia since 2001. I know what I do from reading the newspapers online. I'm being informed by what you are telling me regarding when he started using drugs, but you keep shifting the goal posts. Just like you deliberately misquote me.

In regards his defense - he is an addict and he has been remorseful since he admitted to his addiction. He has also been clean since he admitted to his addition and went through rehabilitation. He deserves his second chance like anyone else.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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elapid said:
Talk about weird. You misquote me on at least two occasions. Then you accuse me of getting my dates wrong when you state:

Back in 2003 or so, Cousins was regularly doing lines of coke in Perth nightclubs

I don't really see how that means his first ever use was in 2003. It just means that he was making it very public at that time. He was quite clearly using it before he started doing in front of everyone.

elapid said:
In regards his defense - he is an addict and he has been remorseful since he admitted to his addiction. He has also been clean since he admitted to his addition and went through rehabilitation. He deserves his second chance like anyone else.
He has not been remorseful. He has been laughing it up and still is. He does not think he has done anything wrong. Last week he said on radio (after being knocked out by Druggy Franklin) "I used to pay $5000 to get into that kind of headspace."

And how do you know he is now clean? He had 14 tests in 2006 when he was using truckloads. All negative. Was it his urine? Was the AFL tipping it down the toilet and just saying it was clean? He shaved his entire body just before he was due to get a hair test less than a year ago. Why should we be confident that they'd catch him now.
 
Jul 16, 2009
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blackcat said:
his wind tunnel testing and introduction of technology has revolutionised the sport. It has no relationship to the sport we once knew as running.

Maybe we could ask for all high level sport to give awards to the slowest, weekest and "best trier and team player" or even awards for mediocrity!

That should keep everyone who ends up turning a post into the same dribble happy. Get over it and stay on the topic!:confused:
 
Jul 16, 2009
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Barracuda said:
Maybe we could ask for all high level sport to give awards to the slowest, weekest and "best trier and team player" or even awards for mediocrity!
Ah, then that award will go jointly to Danyle Pearce and Shaun Burgoyne from my football team (Port Adelaide)
 

SpartacusRox

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May 6, 2010
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Just another example of a guy who is better than the rest so the immediate inference on here is he must be doping, pathetic really but hey' those who can win those who can't look for reasons.:)
 
riobonito92 said:
Jamcaican athletics was facing a new crisis of credibility on Thursday night after it was reported that Shelly-Ann Fraser, the world and Olympic 100 metres champion, had tested positive for a banned drug.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/7880705/Shelly-Ann-Fraser-Olympic-and-world-100m-champion-in-positive-drugs-test.html

You mean a sprinter from the nation with no internal doping control and who is enjoying a golden period of having many world class athletes? I'm stunned.

:rolleyes:
 
With no internal controls, how sophisticated can a program be?
Bolt is obviously "different", he always was. Read his bio. He takes along less bulk than some of the shorter sprinters. Others tried to dope, big time and got mere 1/100ths from the WR. Bolt gets several 1/10ths.
If he does dope, it's more like Florence Griffith. That was odd. Jones doped to beat her WR, and failed.
 
SpartacusRox said:
Just another example of a guy who is better than the rest so the immediate inference on here is he must be doping, pathetic really but hey' those who can win those who can't look for reasons.:)

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the 8 other Jamaicans who tested positive in the last year.
 
Jun 29, 2010
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Oxycodone

riobonito92 said:
Jamcaican athletics was facing a new crisis of credibility on Thursday night after it was reported that Shelly-Ann Fraser, the world and Olympic 100 metres champion, had tested positive for a banned drug.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/7880705/Shelly-Ann-Fraser-Olympic-and-world-100m-champion-in-positive-drugs-test.html

Worth noting that the positive is for a drug (Oxycodone) classed by WADA as a narcotic: it is a painkiller. It is only banned at present in competition (along with many other painkillers) according to 2010 list.