Bonus Seconds in Grand Tours

[Mayo from Mayo]

Chaotic option.
Only on some stages, and it should only be decided - by random draw - partway through the stage.

Variante francaise.
Should immediately be implemented when Julian Alaphilippe is in a breakaway.

 

[RedheadDane]

Variante francaise.
Should immediately be implemented when Julian Alaphilippe is in a breakaway.

So, at whichever "in-stage finish line" - KOM or point sprint - the riders are gonna cross next?

 

[Mayo from Mayo]

Yes, and if there isn't one for awhile just make one up.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Introduce a Mario Kart -like system with mystery boxes on the road. Riders get to grab a box, but they never know what's inside. Could be +20 seconds or -30 seconds. Would make it more interesting for casual viewers as well.

I'm not a fan of bonis because their impact has become a viable option for certain riders to build their entire tactical plan on, which leads to negative racing. On the other hand on an uphill finish, actual times should be taken, and not by the first finisher of groups within 1 second. If there are 10 riders finishing, single file, with each half a second in between, time registration should actually resemble that, and not put everyone in the same time.

 

[RedheadDane]

Introduce a Mario Kart -like system with mystery boxes on the road. Riders get to grab a box, but they never know what's inside. Could be +20 seconds or -30 seconds. Would make it more interesting for casual viewers as well.

Could be a turtle...

 

[fmk_RoI]

I'd suspect you'd have less crashes with no 3km rule and real times at the line.

There's two points to this: the first is the 3k rule and the second is actual timing instead of group timing. The latter I think has already been discussed and people either agree with the safety argument or they don't.

The first point, though, about the 3k rule itself, is worth considering. In the only study of it that I am aware of, it is claimed that moral hazard means that the 3k rule has actually increased the incidence of crashes. The more you try to make some things safe, the more danger you add. PDF lkink.

 

[RedheadDane]

If you think about it - in a rather weird way - the 3 K rule is actually one of the few cases in cycling where "filming", like some football players are notorious for, would actually make some sort of tactical sense.
" Oh... I can't quite keep up." *Flop*.

(Would also hurt a bit more than in football...)

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If you think about it - in a rather weird way - the 3 K rule is actually one of the few cases in cycling where "filming", like some football players are notorious for, would actually make some sort of tactical sense.
" Oh... I can't quite keep up." *Flop*.

(Would also hurt a bit more than in football...)

It's called diving in English.

 

[Rob5091]

If you think about it - in a rather weird way - the 3 K rule is actually one of the few cases in cycling where "filming", like some football players are notorious for, would actually make some sort of tactical sense.
" Oh... I can't quite keep up." *Flop*.

(Would also hurt a bit more than in football...)

We've already had the "fake puncture", or not for Remco, but I think you're suggesting some kamikaze tactic, where a guy shouts, "banzai!" and deliberately rides into someone else, or a piece of traffic furniture.

 

[RedheadDane]

We've already had the "fake puncture", or not for Remco, but I think you're suggesting some kamikaze tactic, where a guy shouts, "banzai!" and deliberately rides into someone else, or a piece of traffic furniture.

Not into someone else, unless they make a deal.

 

[Rob5091]

Not into someone else, unless they make a deal.

So he'd just crash on his own? Would n't that look a bit suspicious, a guy just falling off his bike?

 

[Izzyeviel]

It would be nice if they used the minor stage races to experiment. There's so many things they could try, but they stick to 10,6,4 zzz

 

[Netserk]

There's two points to this: the first is the 3k rule and the second is actual timing instead of group timing. The latter I think has already been discussed and people either agree with the safety argument or they don't.

The safety argument for MTFs?

 

[houtdffan]

There's two points to this: the first is the 3k rule and the second is actual timing instead of group timing. The latter I think has already been discussed and people either agree with the safety argument or they don't.

The first point, though, about the 3k rule itself, is worth considering. In the only study of it that I am aware of, it is claimed that moral hazard means that the 3k rule has actually increased the incidence of crashes. The more you try to make some things safe, the more danger you add. PDF lkink.

which is why the 3km rule needs to be confined to the history books. It's not working

 

[RedheadDane]

which is why the 3km rule needs to be confined to the history books. It's not working

But was it implemented to prevent crashes?
Or for the more cynical reason that since crashes probably can't be 100% avoided, the riders who crash/are caught behind a crash at least don't need to lose time?

 

[jimmy_8888888]

Does anyone have a list of GTs won on bonus seconds?

Not official, but Koblet (Giro 1950) and Saronni (Giro 1983)

 

[Samu Cuenca]

But was it implemented to prevent crashes?
Or for the more cynical reason that since crashes probably can't be 100% avoided, the riders who crash/are caught behind a crash at least don't need to lose time?

But it's a Crash-22 if those crashes wouldn't have happened without the rule.

 

[Netserk]

If you put all riders who crash in the guillotine and chop their head off, you we see an immense reduction in crashes during races. It's all about incentives. #Safety

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Not official, but Koblet (Giro 1950) and Saronni (Giro 1983)

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2020 Stage 18 results

Primož RogliÄ is the winner of La Vuelta ciclista a España 2020, before Richard Carapaz and Hugh Carthy. The stage from Hipódromo de la Zarzuela to Madrid was won by Pascal Ackermann.

www.procyclingstats.com

 

[Wyndbrook]

If you put all riders who crash in the guillotine and chop their head off, you we see an immense reduction in crashes during races. It's all about incentives. #Safety

Maybe a headless rider would cause more crashes.

 

[fmk_RoI]

but they stick to 10,6,4 zzz

But they don't. The seconds awarded is variable, not fixed.

 

[Izzyeviel]

well, what other races have different time boni's?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Could be a turtle...

Could be a star.

 

[RedheadDane]

La Vuelta ciclista a España 2020 Stage 18 results

Primož RogliÄ is the winner of La Vuelta ciclista a España 2020, before Richard Carapaz and Hugh Carthy. The stage from Hipódromo de la Zarzuela to Madrid was won by Pascal Ackermann.

www.procyclingstats.com

Thank you. I did have a feeling there had been an actual recent example.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Cobo as well won the Vuelta initially because of the bonus seconds. Then there was the uproar after the 2012 Giro when Purito lost that he would have won if there was bonus seconds.