Brad Wiggins Power data [2009]

[Dear Wiggo]

Strictly a personal observation, likely stemming from the facts that:

3) the times that I have lost significant amounts of weight my absolute VO2max and power have declined in parallel.

Any reasoning as to they why of this loss of VO2max and power?

I did a post previously based on Nadler's equation and the fact that muscle requires more oxygen than fat, as well as provides more veinous "infrastructure" - if you get my meaning - and therefore loss of muscle leads to loss of "infrastructure" supporting blood volume.

Less blood volume capacity means less plasma expansion / less Hgb mass therefore less VO2max.

Too wild?

Got any other explanations?

 

[acoggan]

Actually in 2006 Wiggins was hitting 580W and saying that's what he hit (or thereabouts - maybe it was 570W) to gold medal in 2004.

Well if you give him 10 W more 2 y later, that makes his performance this year more, not less, believable, no?

 

[acoggan]

Any reasoning as to they why of this loss of VO2max and power?

My hypothesis would be that since:

1) it is very difficult to maintain positive nitrogen balance when in a negative energy balance; and

2) the rate of myocardial protein synthesis is several-fold greater than that of skeletal muscle,

weight less (esp. if excessively rapid) leads to reduction in cardiac mass and hence performance. However, a reduction in blood (esp. plasma) volume could also be a factor as well (but due to the high turnover rate of plasma proteins like albumin, not due to a reduction in total vascular capacity, which is immense even in untrained individuals).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My hypothesis would be that since:

1) it is very difficult to maintain positive nitrogen balance when in a negative energy balance; and

2) the rate of myocardial protein synthesis is several-fold greater than that of skeletal muscle,

weight less (esp. if excessively rapid) leads to reduction in cardiac mass and hence performance. However, a reduction in blood (esp. plasma) volume could also be a factor as well (but due to the high turnover rate of plasma proteins like albumin, not due to a reduction in total vascular capacity, which is immense even in untrained individuals).

So let me get this straight. Are you saying
1. You lost weight quickly and that's what lead to your loss of power?
2. That your loss of power was due to your heart losing muscle mass?

 

[acoggan]

So let me get this straight. Are you saying
1. You lost weight quickly and that's what lead to your loss of power?
2. That your loss of power was due to your heart losing muscle mass?

1. On one occasion, yes (at least probably too quickly), but on other occasions, no.

2. My hypothesis is that would be a contributing factor.

Allow me to reiterate that including "I shouldn't lose weight" in my top 10 list of things I'd learned using a powermeter was a personal observation, and was included to illustrate the benefit of directly measuring power, not to argue that others might not benefit from doing so. IOW, YMMV.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

1. On one occasion, yes (at least probably too quickly), but on other occasions, no.

2. My hypothesis is that would be a contributing factor.

Allow me to reiterate that including "I shouldn't lose weight" in my top 10 list of things I'd learned using a powermeter was a personal observation, and was included to illustrate the benefit of directly measuring power, not to argue that others might not benefit from doing so. IOW, YMMV.

Do you take performance enhancing drugs?

 

[acoggan]

Do you take performance enhancing drugs?

Does injecting yourself w/ growth hormone as part of a research study count? (Actually, it would/should, although I don't recall if I held a racing license at the time.)

In any case, I'm not sure what answer you were hoping to elicit, but as I emphasized before, my conclusion pertains only to myself.

EDIT: Outside of the research study mentioned above, I've never taken any banned drug.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Does injecting yourself w/ growth hormone as part of a research study count? (Actually, it would/should, although I don't recall if I held a racing license at the time.)

In any case, I'm not sure what answer you were hoping to elicit, but as I emphasized before, my conclusion pertains only to myself.

EDIT: Outside of the research study mentioned above, I've never taken any banned drug.

Have you taken any performance enhancing drugs, outside the research study mentioned above? You don't have to answer, I am simply curious.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Lots of Jani data in this vid @ 3.23.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHDT7GAMigU

 

[vander]

I know noone will probably be able to answer this but any idea what protocol they used? 363W seems low for a VO2 max I think he did that for about 20min or so in a TDF stage this year. Also 4.74L cant be right seems very low, even if he is light, for a GC contender.

 

[BigBoat]

I know noone will probably be able to answer this but any idea what protocol they used? 363W seems low for a VO2 max I think he did that for about 20min or so in a TDF stage this year. Also 4.74L cant be right seems very low, even if he is light, for a GC contender.

Undoped and out of shape.... He can probably get over 80 V02 max in great shape (undoped). the 370 FTP he had was with blood doping probably.... But remember Jani only weights 61 kg so 363 watts for say 5 mins is pretty good for being out of shape.

If I remember correctly 12*5min time trial w/kg + 3.5= V02 max estimate

If Coggan replies he might have a better estimate method.

 

[V3R1T4S]

Protocol

I know noone will probably be able to answer this but any idea what protocol they used? 363W seems low for a VO2 max I think he did that for about 20min or so in a TDF stage this year. Also 4.74L cant be right seems very low, even if he is light, for a GC contender.

I believe Iñigo San Millán's protocol starts off at 1.5-2.5 w/kg and then increases by 0.5 w/kg every 10 minutes. Maybe the exact starting w/kg and ramp rate is off, but the ramp rate is definitely much slower than a traditional VO2 max test. Consequently, this produces lower VO2 "max" scores but the protocol is a better indicator of current race potential/fitness. I believe this is the protocol Garmin uses and what Vaughters was talking about in another thread.

Undoped and out of shape.... He can probably get over 80 V02 max in great shape (undoped). the 370 FTP he had was with blood doping probably.... But remember Jani only weights 61 kg so 363 watts for say 5 mins is pretty good for being out of shape.

If I remember correctly 12*5min time trial w/kg + 3.5= V02 max estimate

If Coggan replies he might have a better estimate method.

The test date says 2012/05/10. You also have to realize they are at moderate altitude. I would expect most riders not to last too long after they've gone above threshold.

 

[acoggan]

Have you taken any performance enhancing drugs, outside the research study mentioned above? You don't have to answer, I am simply curious.

I'm not sure if you missed my edit, or if you are differentiating between "banned" and "performance enhancing". With respect to the latter, though, I have taken caffeine tablets to stay awake during overnight drives (I don't like coffee).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I'm not sure if you missed my edit, or if you are differentiating between "banned" and "performance enhancing". With respect to the latter, though, I have taken caffeine tablets to stay awake during overnight drives (I don't like coffee).

I saw your edit. It reminded me of Jonathon Vaughters, Krebs Cycle and hmmm a few other people around here ;-)

So I asked again hoping you'd answer the question I asked. Thanks!

 

[acoggan]

I saw your edit. It reminded me of Jonathon Vaughters, Krebs Cycle and hmmm a few other people around here ;-)

Methinks your tin foil hat is a wee bit too tight.

 

[acoggan]

If I remember correctly 12*5min time trial w/kg + 3.5= V02 max estimate

If Coggan replies he might have a better estimate method.

Rather than 5 min power I'd suggest the quasi-plateau in power that typically occurs in a reasonably well-paced pursuit=type effort:

http://www.trainingandracingwithapowermeter.com/2010/06/how-to-estimate-vo2max-using-power.html

Even then, though, you're faced with the uncertainty resulting from variations in cycling economy (efficiency).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Methinks your tin foil hat is a wee bit too tight.

precise words and all that, yes?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The quotes from Wiggins' book re. his power output have been plastered all over the internet...you practically can't visit any cycling forum and not come across them.

so many cycling website visits for someone not following pro cycling!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Well if you give him 10 W more 2 y later, that makes his performance this year more, not less, believable, no?

no .

 

[acoggan]

so many cycling website visits for someone not following pro cycling!

I frequently read/particpate in forums such as this one, but rarely read websites covering pro cycling.

 

[_frost]

My hypothesis would be that since:

1) it is very difficult to maintain positive nitrogen balance when in a negative energy balance; and

2) the rate of myocardial protein synthesis is several-fold greater than that of skeletal muscle,

weight less (esp. if excessively rapid) leads to reduction in cardiac mass and hence performance. However, a reduction in blood (esp. plasma) volume could also be a factor as well (but due to the high turnover rate of plasma proteins like albumin, not due to a reduction in total vascular capacity, which is immense even in untrained individuals).

Is it too simplistic to think that once done with the weight loss and back in positive/neutral nitrogen balance the lost cardiac mass would be restored with adequate training (and the rate of protein synthesis being great that would even happen relatively quickly)?