Brad's tribute to Lance

[SC1990]

are they all individual?
I'm guessing that you're referring to track racing as it'd be hard to clock all that up as some junior road or mtb rider, but fair's fair... I'll pay that

He won the individual pursuit in Athens, defended it it Beijing, and won the team pursuit in Beijing, having got a silver in Sydney in IP.

 

[Benotti69]

Yet with all this 'overwhelming' evidence, he is still allowed to ride the tour, and still hasn't had any charges brought against him...hmm. But i guess that's because he 'owns the sport' and is 'connected' right?

And the 8 positive EPO tests? The same ones that an independent investigation cleared him of? The ones that where spuriously retested and claimed to be his by a newspaper? Right. But I'm sure I've just fallen for the 'Pharmstrong propoganda machine.' Seriously, the whole thing is pathetic. Whatever the outcome, it will run for ever: both sides are so ingrained in their own 'evidence', most of which has been aggrandised and made into truth from rumour and wild speculation, so there's no way they're going to admit they're wrong, and both will claim 'conspiracy'. I can't see why the hell people continue to bring it up as such.

and mr squeaky clean is being investigated by the feds. Got a conspiracy theory for that yeah?

 

[flicker]

The evidence that Lance ran a doping ring is actually quite compelling. It's called circumstantial evidence and people are convicted of murder for it all the time and get sentenced to life in prison.

If you don't know by now that Lance Armstrong was a major league doper who was doped to the gills during every one of his Tour wins, then you evidently have not been paying attention to the facts. Not only does everybody in cycling know that Lance was a major league doper, but the evidence is overwhelming that he was.

BTW, how do you explain those 8 positive EPO tests from the '99 Tour? Oh, that's right, the female lab techs who don't even follow cycling and have no idea who rider #147837 is intentionally contaminated his samples, did so on consecutive days, and just so happened to guess it was Lance because they are 'jealous' that a French rider didn't win the Tour. I'd love to see the jury who would buy that garbage.

Lance. never tested positive never ever. Ninja night warriors from the Wu Tang Clan broke into said French lab and pee D in Lances Samples, same ninjas in switzerland. Conspiracy against my Lance he has been fighting the conspiracy for his whole career. Remember those numbers 147837.

 

[flicker]

of course, the one minor problem with this argument is that the idea that Armstrong ran a doping ring and was doped to the eyeballs is a completely unproven one (unless of course you're one of the apparently all knowing internet haters who really should be testifying before the grand jury given their intricate and detailed knowledge of exactly what went on, in which case there's seemingly no point in a trial due to the 'obviousness' of it all), whilst Ricco and Vinokourov where proven dopers.

Again, it seems association with Armstrong makes you out to be the Anti-Christ , and for what? Because you think (sorry 'Know') Armstrong was doping? Strange logic.

Finally a sensible poster, refreshing!

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yet with all this 'overwhelming' evidence, he is still allowed to ride the tour, and still hasn't had any charges brought against him...hmm. But i guess that's because he 'owns the sport' and is 'connected' right?

And the 8 positive EPO tests? The same ones that an independent investigation cleared him of? The ones that where spuriously retested and claimed to be his by a newspaper? Right. But I'm sure I've just fallen for the 'Pharmstrong propoganda machine.' Seriously, the whole thing is pathetic. Whatever the outcome, it will run for ever: both sides are so ingrained in their own 'evidence', most of which has been aggrandised and made into truth from rumour and wild speculation, so there's no way they're going to admit they're wrong, and both will claim 'conspiracy'. I can't see why the hell people continue to bring it up as such.

There was only one accurate statement in your post, I have highlighted it for you as otherwise I am sure you wouldn't be able to find it........... with both hands............in the dark.........

 

[VeloCity]

an independent investigation

hahahahaha...sorry, but that was funny.

 

[The Hitch]

An independent investigation cleared Armstrong of the 99 samples

This is news to me.

Do tell.

 

[flicker]

An independent investigation cleared Armstrong of the 99 samples

This is news to me.

Do tell.

It is true there was an investegation and Armstrong was cleared, the premise being the samples had been handled by too many un named and un-authorised individuals, not just Madamasille Truffaut. Like it or not I have read the report here, I think it had the stamp of afld or avld on it.

 

[Altitude]

BTW, how do you explain those 8 positive EPO tests from the '99 Tour? Oh, that's right, the female lab techs who don't even follow cycling and have no idea who rider #147837 is intentionally contaminated his samples, did so on consecutive days, and just so happened to guess it was Lance because they are 'jealous' that a French rider didn't win the Tour. I'd love to see the jury who would buy that garbage.

Now it's 8 samples?

 

[Hugh Januss]

An independent investigation cleared Armstrong of the 99 samples

This is news to me.

Do tell.

Oh yeah. The UCI used some of the money that Lance gave them to hire Vrijman to report that the 'statute of limitations had run out so there was nothing anybody could do about it so nananana, Livestrong!'

You can read what WADA thought of it here http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/wada_official_statement_vrijman_report.pdf
I'm sure you've seen this, but equally sure that SC1990 hasn't.

 

[pmcg76]

Now it's 8 samples?

Its actually more than that but only 6 belong to Lance.

I wonder if Hambuger/Beltran were doping as they were the other guys named. Oh, wait they both got booted out of the sport for testing positive. No way they were doping in 99.

 

[pleyser]

Lance's defenders

Let's say for the sake of argument we throw away a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence. There's still the fact that Lance won most of his tours by minutes. (save 2003) At times, he could have attacked to gain even more time. He focussed on the Tour only, had a strong team, etc. but he was in the range of 5-10% better than the competition...most of whom are known dopers. If you can believe that Lance is that far superior to the competition clean, okay, end of discussion. I have nothing more to add.

A recently posted interview with Joe Papp stated, "A certain percentage of the public will believe you're clean no matter what the evidence." I think there are still quarters where Tyler Hamilton, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds are defended.

 

[hrotha]

Its actually more than that but only 6 belong to Lance.

I wonder if Hambuger/Beltran were doping as they were the other guys named. Oh, wait they both got booted out of the sport for testing positive. No way they were doping in 99.

Ah, Bo Hamburger... One of the positive-testingest guys in the peloton? That's how I remember him anyway, but I'm not sure he had more strikes than others. Actually a competition to see who got the most strikes (positives, times over 50% hematocrit, arrests, confessions, involvement in doping rings, etc) would be interesting.

 

[thehog]

Ah, Bo Hamburger... One of the positive-testingest guys in the peloton? That's how I remember him anyway, but I'm not sure he had more strikes than others. Actually a competition to see who got the most strikes (positives, times over 50% hematocrit, arrests, confessions, involvement in doping rings, etc) would be interesting.

There was a video of Beltran when he got busted. He was truly surprised he was actually being tested. The look on his face was of sheer amazement. Well done AFLD. But yes he was using in 1999.

 

[MacRoadie]

And the 8 positive EPO tests? The same ones that an independent investigation cleared him of?

Ok, someone owes me a new keyboard....and a fresh cup of coffee...

 

[Benotti69]

Ok, someone owes me a new keyboard....and a fresh cup of coffee...

heeheheehhehe

never drink coffee while reading the clinic never especially with jokers like flicky and polish on here all the time

 

[BikeCentric]

Isn't this Lance eulogy just an unfortunate case of namedropping? Altering the narrative to provide a toehold towards selling more copies? If so, could that reader manipulation be even worse?

The reason I err towards this view is because sometimes I do judge a book by its cover:

Hey look it's Vince Nibali climbing there behind Brad in the Liquigas kit! That's awesome that Brad was able to hang and lead the climbing group sometimes with good GC contenders like Vincenzo. I'm sure that having such a big star as Nibali also on the cover will help Brad sell more books.

 

[BikeCentric]

this is simply untrue. As with US riders and the publications dediacted to cycling people are romantic about their stars. We spend time caring about what coffee Tommy D enjoys..or that CVV is recharged and ready for the upcoming year when the reality is that they sucked last year. Wiggins understands the sport and knows no matter where you fall on the issue of Armstrong all the hype surrounding him has helped sponsorship and salary values for pros. Wiggo may have bought into the bubble and played pretend that he was climber ..you can't blame the guy, 1000's of people telling you that it was possible and believing the positive. Sky's influence on British cycling can't be understimated..hype yes..dingleberries absolutely..all of it very profitable for the people riding the wave. Wiggo is getting more requests for everything and probably more start money than at anytime in his career..stop looking behind the curtain and let the guy really nurse this Skyhyper thing until it dries up..and you are probably right it's going to dry up.

No, "we" don't. You certainly might, but "we" most definitely do not care about such disturbingly fanboyish things.

 

[Mambo95]

Has anyone who has damned Wiggins in this thread actually read the relevant extract of the book? (I haven't)

Or are you like those 'moral majority' nutters who call for films to be banned without even seeing them or knowing what they're about?

"I don't need to read it, I know what it says" etc...

 

[VeloCity]

It is true there was an investegation and Armstrong was cleared, the premise being the samples had been handled by too many un named and un-authorised individuals, not just Madamasille Truffaut. Like it or not I have read the report here, I think it had the stamp of afld or avld on it.

The "investigation" was carried out by a friend of Verbruggen's, commissioned by the UCI, and the UCI received a copy of the report for them to review prior to it being publicly released. There was nothing "independent" about it, it was - and was intended to be - a whitewash from start to finish.

 

[flicker]

Has anyone who has damned Wiggins in this thread actually read the relevant extract of the book? (I haven't)

Or are you like those 'moral majority' nutters who call for films to be banned without even seeing them or knowing what they're about?

"I don't need to read it, I know what it says" etc...

I think they hate it because they see Armstrong on the cover. Also as Brad is a great British cyclist he must be a doper.. which to me I do not understand as some of the haters are #1 British, but hate Cav. Millar,and Brad. It is very strange the posters here. I try to support riders from my country because I want cycling to be popular here.... really why I support Armstrong because he supports cycling here.

 

[flicker]

The "investigation" was carried out by a friend of Verbruggen's, commissioned by the UCI, and the UCI received a copy of the report for them to review prior to it being publicly released. There was nothing "independent" about it, it was - and was intended to be - a whitewash from start to finish.

The beauty is though Novizky will get to the bottom of things and get cycling straightened out.

 

[flicker]

Also, SRAM sponsors a lot of cycling events here in the US which gives US cycling visibility. I want to see people out on bikes, running walking swimming hiking, playing sports I want to see people out there growing vegies and chopping wood.

 

[BotanyBay]

The beauty is though Novizky will get to the bottom of things and get cycling straightened out.

Novitzky could care less about cycling. He hates fraud.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Ah, Bo Hamburger... One of the positive-testingest guys in the peloton? That's how I remember him anyway, but I'm not sure he had more strikes than others. Actually a competition to see who got the most strikes (positives, times over 50% hematocrit, arrests, confessions, involvement in doping rings, etc) would be interesting.

Yeah, poor old Bo.
Just about the first unprotected rider to get caught out in 2001 by the new, fangled EPO test, that the other guy was told about but chose to ignore and ended up having to pay 5 times over the odds for a used sysmex machine.