Brailsford steps down

[Wallace and Gromit]

Again, I suspect if you talk about someone being clean most people will equate this to having a wash rather than anything to do with doping.

I think most folk know that drug taking is an issue in sport. You'd have needed to lived in a very dark cave for a long time not to heve heard of the East Germans, Ben Johnson and Lance, even if you don't know that actually Margaret Thatcher is still PM.

But drug taking is what "nasty foreigners" do, so the assumption will be that Sir Brad's team does it by the book, even if they aren't aware of terms like "clean", "glowing", "micro-dosing", "The Clinic" etc.

No-one other than a small minority stopped to ask if it was too good to be true when Team GB kicked a*se in the London OGs, and the same attitude will apply to Sir Brad's bike team. Too many of us lived through the dark days of the Atlanta Olympics to dig too deeply.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hows about that Brailsford fella, eh?

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I think most folk know that drug taking is an issue in sport. You'd have needed to lived in a very dark cave for a long time not to heve heard of the East Germans, Ben Johnson and Lance, even if you don't know that actually Margaret Thatcher is still PM.

But drug taking is what "nasty foreigners" do, so the assumption will be that Sir Brad's team does it by the book, even if they aren't aware of terms like "clean", "glowing", "micro-dosing", "The Clinic" etc.

No-one other than a small minority stopped to ask if it was too good to be true when Team GB kicked a*se in the London OGs, and the same attitude will apply to Sir Brad's bike team. Too many of us lived through the dark days of the Atlanta Olympics to dig too deeply.

The only reason they know them is because they got busted and they transcend their sport. That is akin to saying being aware of Muhammad Ali makes you vaguely knowledgeable of boxing in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

How many people stop to ask when a rider, from Spain, Italy, France, etc.. win the Tour, is clean? Hardly anyone because they neither know who won nor care.

The idea that the attitude of people not questioning Sky is specifically because they are a British team is ridiculous. Do you really think people across the streets of Britain were questioning whether Big Mig was clean when he was out climbing Pantani. You would be lucky if the fact that he won made it in the papers.

Peoples knowledge of Wiggins is an exception because he won the Tour and not least because of his Olympic success. I honestly think most people would not know which teams he rides for (Other than Team GB).

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Hows about that Brailsford fella, eh?

Is this another one of your 'data points'?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I wish I could chat with my fellow countrymen moderators about off-topic stuff, then have a sly personal jab at someone. Such luxury.

 

[The Hitch]

The Brailsford magic stopped working this year. His GC contenders were supposed to be making WT races look like cafe runs with a visiting pro team stopping by to humiliate everyone for months at a time like the last two years.

How can you say that in April? We have even had any gts yet. And why would that be the reason for stepping down? That's really jumping to conclusions.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I wish I could chat with my fellow countrymen moderators about off-topic stuff, then have a sly personal jab at someone. Such luxury.

If you think that is off-topic compared to some of the other threads here then you are the one on drugs.

Oh, and there was nothing sly about it.

 

[The Hitch]

A while ago I explicitly opened up two threads on the same story - a Clinic version and a non-Clinic one, knowing full well what would happen if I went only to the non-clinic version. Suggest that's probably a good idea for this a well - there'll be those who want to discuss this is just race/team terms, and then those who want to shout 'Brailsfraud' a lot. Both can be accomodated!

There already is a non clinic version and it predates this one by 4 hours and your post by about 10. Maybe would have been wise to check the Pr section first to see if it was there before making an appeal for it

 

[The Hitch]

there'll be those who want to discuss this is just race/team terms, and then those who want to shout 'Brailsfraud' a lot. Both can be accomodated!

Martin, I thought you claimed to be neutral. Several times, and even when talking down to me youve tried to paint yourself as some sort of unbiased agnostic who moderates both sides.

But here you portray one side as wanting a rational discussion and mock the other as a mob 'who wants to shout "Brailsfraud" a lot'.


How can you claim neutrality while painting such black and white pictures of what happens here?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How can you claim neutrality while painting such black and white pictures of what happens here?

Is your question rhetorical?

 

[Digger]

Brailsford - Mugabe as he is apparently known in British cycling circles.

 

[MartinGT]

I think it's genuinelly intereting news. But It's not IMMEDIATELY clinic worthy (soon will be, mind!)

Oh aye, got something to share Martin?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Peoples knowledge of Wiggins is an exception because he won the Tour and not least because of his Olympic success. I honestly think most people would not know which teams he rides for (Other than Team GB).

That's why I made explicit reference to "Wiggo's team" rather than Sky.

To the extent that the masses are aware of Sky, it is likely to be as Wiggo's team rather than Sky explicitly, and as they view Wiggo as a true British hero, they will assume his team is legit.

So overall they will be concluding Sky are clean somewhat implicitly.

A lot would depend on how a question to the masses was phrased:

"Do you think Team Sky engage in the use of performance enhancing drugs?" will get a lot of blank looks one might think, as respondents are likely to be unaware of Sky the cycling team. They might think the question relates to whether TV footy pundits are on drugs!

"Do you think Sir Bradley Wiggins has achieved his cycling success fairly?" would generate primarily positive responses. This could then be interpreted as the masses thinking Sky are clean, even if the repondents were completely unaware of the issue of PEDs in cycling.

 

[martinvickers]

That's a little bit of an overstatement, but for sure the endurance (TP) squad needs some work. Mainly as most of the 2012 winners are focusing on the road now. I think the young guns coming through will be just fine with a bit more time.

The sprint side should be OK being built around Jason Kenny, but he does need help and there is a lack of depth.


The womens and Paracycling squads are both looking strong.


As I said in the non-clinic thread 30 medals out of 142 for 2004-2012. Thats over 20% of Team GB's medals from cycling, mostly on the track.

He has done a phenomenal job over the years.

Men's sprint need -

* nothing on man one - Hindes was up among the best again in the last worlds, even if the team did badly
* desperately need a new man three - crampton and Emadi are not going to cut it, espcially the latter. I expect Germany to be scoured for eligible youngsters ;-)
* Chris Hoy to give Kenny a good kick in the a*se, or at least a wedgie, and tell him to cop himself on - he seems to have lost doses of motivation since 2012

Men's endurance need -

*a bit of discipline; they are suffering for the success of team sky, but that's no excuse for the drop in fomr from the world cup, when GB were safely under 4 minutes. The problems here look worse, but in my view are actually less drastic than the man three sprint problem. Still very problematic though - I think wiggins gets back in here.
*a relaistic omnium threat to Clancy.

Women's spint need -

*becky james to push on again, probably with Dani Khan on her back. Otherwsie whe'll be tom Daley - a WC in her youth, and never repeated.

Women's endurance has no known needs. The depth when juniors are included is simply terrifying for everyone else. They do need Trott in cotton wool for omnium purposes.

Ireland needs a bl00dy velodrome, please, pretty please.

 

[doolols]

"Do you think Team Sky engage in the use of performance enhancing drugs?" will get a lot of blank looks one might think.

I think if you were to ask "Are cyclists in the Tour de France on drugs, most would shrug and say "of course". No one really cares.

 

[martinvickers]

Martin, I thought you claimed to be neutral. Several times, and even when talking down to me youve tried to paint yourself as some sort of unbiased agnostic who moderates both sides.

But here you portray one side as wanting a rational discussion and mock the other as a mob 'who wants to shout "Brailsfraud" a lot'.


How can you claim neutrality while painting such black and white pictures of what happens here?

I'm not neutral, but not in the way you think.

There are perfectly rational and enlightened posters on the 'sky doping' side - LS most of the time, Flanders and yourself on a good day. Just as there are eejits on the 'not doping' side. But the Clinic, generally, is close to unreadable sometimes.

The Pro road racing discussions tend, on the whole, to be more constructive in tone and nature, IMHO. but you can't discuss doping there, not even constructively.

you'd nearly need two clinics. One for attempts at constructive anti-doping discussion. And one for the sh!te.

 

[martinvickers]

Oh aye, got something to share Martin?

Yes, yes, I do. News on Sir Dave Brailsford's resignation has been posted on the Clinic. It's said he's not entirely popular or trusted in those parts. One suspects his integrity on the issue of clean cycling may be challenged.

Call it a hunch.

Edit : as of 13.48 GMT+1

Brailsford quits (non-doping thread) 43 posts.
Brailsford quits (clinic thread) 5 posts

Uncanny.

 

[martinvickers]

Brailsford - Mugabe as he is apparently known in British cycling circles.

I have heard that. He has plenty of enemies. Has anyone interviewed a few of them?

 

[red_flanders]

exactly

when the most evil doper after Armstrong returns to his old habits you need to give him the proper attention.

Full time pillow-fluffing?

 

[martinvickers]

Full time pillow-fluffing?

That sounds like some appaling euphamism.

 

[red_flanders]

That sounds like some appaling euphamism.

Success, then.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

exactly

when the most evil doper after Armstrong returns to his old habits you need to give him the proper attention.

I don't think Froome is "returning" to his old habits. I think he's just acquiring new ones.

 

[martinvickers]

Success, then.

Chapeau, RF!

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yes, yes, I do. News on Sir Dave Brailsford's resignation has been posted on the Clinic. It's said he's not entirely popular or trusted in those parts. One suspects his integrity on the issue of clean cycling may be challenged.

Call it a hunch.

Edit : as of 13.48 GMT+1

Brailsford quits (non-doping thread) 43 posts.
Brailsford quits (clinic thread) 5 posts

Uncanny.

Wait, Brailsfraud is a "knight" too? Maybe it was a buy one get one free with Wiggins.

 

[martinvickers]

Wait, Brailsfraud is a "knight" too? Maybe it was a buy one get one free with Wiggins.

They buy them in wholesale to avoid the high street markup.

So far they've got a Sir Dave, Sir Brad, Sir Chris and Dame Sarah all since 2008. Cav's is probably in the pipeline (I'm particularly looking forward ot Lady Peta) and Froome can't be far off - shane sutton's probably got theirs already stored somewhere with the really round wheels. They may even get a couple frozen for Laura Trott and Vicky Pendleton down the line.

Marginal gains, don't you know?