Breaking Away - "Top cycling teams explore creating new competitive league"

[ManicJack]

That's a great question. They would have zero intention, for obvious reasons.
I'm not familiar with European labour laws, but if they are anything like ours in North America, they would be forced by law to acknowledge a bargaining unit and negotiate a legally binding contract.
See, for example, The NFL, the NBA, the NHL, MLB, MLS, etc. etc. and so on and so forth.

Maybe someone could help us out, but it is my understanding that in many European countries, the union has to ask to be recognized and the business has the option to voluntarily engage. Much different than here in the US. My understanding comes from conversations about this topic with people directly involved in pro cycling.

 

[the delgados]

Maybe someone could help us out, but it is my understanding that in many European countries, the union has to ask to be recognized and the business has the option to voluntarily engage. Much different than here in the US. My understanding comes from conversations about this topic with people directly involved in pro cycling.

You might be right. If so, that would be very surprising and unsettling. I find the notion hard to believe.

 

[ManicJack]

You might be right. If so, that would be very surprising and unsettling. I find the notion hard to believe.

This is quoted from a site called Social Europe

"The International Trade Union Confederation’s Global Rights Index 2020 revealed that 38 per cent of European countries excluded workers from the right to join or set up a union, 56 per cent failed to uphold the right to collective bargaining and no fewer than 72 per cent violated the right to strike. Many employers are refusing to enter talks or are choosing to bypass legitimate trade unions in favour of non-union and non-representative ‘sweetheart’ organisations."

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Big thread. Not so much 'breakaway league' as 'UCI, ASO and the biggest teams wanting to cordon everyone else off'.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717962199916777643

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Big thread. Not so much 'breakaway league' as 'UCI, ASO and the biggest teams wanting to cordon everyone else off'.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717962199916777643

Well, that was what we already suspected seeing the way they've strangled the life out of ProConti and are insisting on giving organisers zero flexibility to pick wildcards.

 

[ManicJack]

Big thread. Not so much 'breakaway league' as 'UCI, ASO and the biggest teams wanting to cordon everyone else off'.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717962199916777643

Cyclists getting paid LIV golf type $. ?

 

[Devil's Elbow]

This is quoted from a site called Social Europe

"The International Trade Union Confederation’s Global Rights Index 2020 revealed that 38 per cent of European countries excluded workers from the right to join or set up a union, 56 per cent failed to uphold the right to collective bargaining and no fewer than 72 per cent violated the right to strike. Many employers are refusing to enter talks or are choosing to bypass legitimate trade unions in favour of non-union and non-representative ‘sweetheart’ organisations."

You're rather ignoring the context here that a) Europe includes oligarchies like Russia where it will surprise nobody that workers/trade unions have little to no rights, and b) that in most of western and central Europe, workers' rights are much more developed in the status quo than in the US because the government assumes a much stronger role. Not really an on-topic discussion, though.

 

[fmk_RoI]

it is my understanding that in many European countries, the union has to ask to be recognized and the business has the option to voluntarily engage.

The UCI recognises the CPA and the CPA negotiates with the UCI. The individual employers - teams - don't come into it.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

 

[DNP-Old]

Of course Plugge is at the heart of this.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Well, that was what we already suspected seeing the way they've strangled the life out of ProConti and are insisting on giving organisers zero flexibility to pick wildcards.

So how long until the TdF gets moved to Arabia, like the race formerly know as Paris-Dakar?

 

[Samamba]

Of course Plugge is at the heart of this.

And Bakala, and Bessel Kok. Always the same greedy fcks

And ofcourse Vaughters is on board too. No chance of relegating with this stuff.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

So how long until the TdF gets moved to Arabia, like the race formerly know as Paris-Dakar?

Well the thing is, once they've formally locked off the top division, then they could sell it off to the highest bidder, just like F1. It'll be hard for them to undo a century or more of tradition but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see some races like, say, the Dauphiné get "re-imagined" in a money-spinning location, or more flyaway World Tour League races in countries bankrolling it.

And Bakala, and Bessel Kok. Always the same greedy fcks

And ofcourse Vaughters is on board too. No chance of relegating with this stuff.

I'm going to do something rare here and actually be a bit sympathetic to Vaughters. It is well known here that I despise his constant agenda for a "more sustainable model" of the sport which always seems to be solely around locking off the top division to make sure nobody can build their team up and break into the top division - exactly in the fashion he did, lest we forget - in case it's at the expense of his team... but at least he is the manager of one of the teams that has reason to feel threatened by the current model, as one of the smaller budget WT teams and one which has had to get through a number of mergers and was in the fight for UCI points last season to preserve its status.

In that, what I mean is, at least Vaughters' usual reason - protecting his own disingenuous hide and team/brand - gives him a relatively honourable justification for this. People like Plugge and Bakala are already running the richest teams, have the biggest stars in their teams, and win the biggest number of races. They're the Supply Side Jesus guys, the rich voting for policies that make them richer and the poor poorer, which they justify by saying "average income is going up!"

 

[hrotha]

Rich visionaries trying to 'revolutionize' something armed with bad ideas and extremely dirty money, what else is new

 

[the delgados]

This is quoted from a site called Social Europe

"The International Trade Union Confederation’s Global Rights Index 2020 revealed that 38 per cent of European countries excluded workers from the right to join or set up a union, 56 per cent failed to uphold the right to collective bargaining and no fewer than 72 per cent violated the right to strike. Many employers are refusing to enter talks or are choosing to bypass legitimate trade unions in favour of non-union and non-representative ‘sweetheart’ organisations."

Wow. That's very hard to comprehend.
Thanks for the information.

 

[roundabout]

Trying to think from the practical perspective where to get more money (instead of going after the ASO existing share which is unlikely to suddenly make cycling sustainable even if the teams were to get 100% of it)

obviously shorter races and or closed circuits for lower running costs
ticketing and or VIP zones at finishes/key areas
guaranteed star rider participation to have something to sell to the TV companies

In terms of running races, an actual alternative to Tour/Giro/Vuelta if those are not willing to get onboard would be needed.

At least for an alternative Tour it would have to be a proper 3 week race with actual point-to-point stages, same amount of global TV coverage and same prize money (so that's 2.5M on prize money alone).

I hope that I am kind of right about the last 2 paragraphs and some Velon criterium-y knock-off won't be enough in terms of prestige vis-a-vis an actual challenge of doing a 3 week race.

 

[roundabout]

And just to add, ASO apparent net profit for 2021 was something like 72M. Even if one somehow got them to hand over all that money, it would probably be enough to sustain maybe 2 biggest WT teams?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Saddened but not shocked to see Vaughters especially, who should know better, trash cycling and it's heritage in this way. The likes of Radcliffe and Plugge you expect it from. The problem for them is that The Tour, aside from being by far the most commercially successful aspect of cycling, is also so big that it is a tool of soft-power and therefore political in nature. I believe that this kind of shift would require the go-ahead from people with a lot more sway than cycling directors. Much like how the super-league was a non-starter, this would be seen as selling out a French cultural institution. Unsure about the Belgian classics and whether they can be connected in the same way, but given the reactions of some on here I suspect a similar story.

Whilst I agree with the notion that the ASO and UCI hold too much sway, this idea goes so far in the other direction such that it will have little public support.

Just as an aside, it's Illegal for an employer in the UK for an employer stop you joining a union, though private sector membership is low, they do still hold quite significant influence. I.E. the train unions and their figureheads have landed massive blows on the government recently. They are also fairly central to funding and membership base of the current opposition, who will likely be in power after the next elections.

 

[Ricco']

I'm not on a good time of the year to react to this as usually the last quarter of the year is my detox period from road cycling, so perhaps it's because of that, but everything I read about this just makes me want to throw up. Saudis, Plugge, Jumbo, Vaughters, key words as "Sustainable" and empty trying to be epic titles as "One Cycling"? It's difficult to add something that makes this more dreadful.

Maybe they will still throwaround sometime that old idea of doing stage races around the world with a dedicated day for sprinting, time trialing, mountain, etc.

 

[Izzyeviel]

& what happens when they've trashed the calendar, destroyed the prestige of the races, & realised cycling isn't the mega bucks phenoman they think it is?

 

[Tim Cahill]

It's like the IPL, but at least with that you had a billion Indians who love cricket.

Can't wait for a few 20km stages, maybe get some obstacles on the road like Mario Kart to spice things up a bit.

 

[roundabout]

If the cycling landscape could be *easily* changed, the parties wanting to do so would have already found a willing sap to finance their wish.

I think it's another episode of the same show after the QS 'merger' where the hope was to get the assets without the liabilities attached to them and then reality got in the way.

 

[roundabout]

& what happens when they've trashed the calendar, destroyed the prestige of the races, & realised cycling isn't the mega bucks phenoman they think it is?

I imagine Plugge's investor presentation went something like this

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5sxLapAts

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Anybody involved in this should be arrested.

 

[fmk_RoI]

And just to add, ASO apparent net profit for 2021 was something like 72M. Even if one somehow got them to hand over all that money, it would probably be enough to sustain maybe 2 biggest WT teams?

Also worth remembering there's more to ASO than cycling. Lots more.