Breaking news: "Armstrong Brushes Aside Contador Taunt"

[Carboncrank]

Well, I'd say Team Radioshack is the living example of this statement. It's not outrageous at all.

If you think that Radio Shack in its first year is automaticly the Yankees of Cycling I'd love to see some numbers on that they are paid.

I'd be willing to bet some of them took less money to come over.

Levi, Popovych, Paulinho and Horner are there out of loyalty to Jb and Lance. With KLÖDEN the question of why he felt no loyalty to AC begs to be asked.

 

[Publicus]

If you think that Radio Shack in its first year is automaticly the Yankees of Cycling I'd love to see some numbers on that they are paid.

I'd be willing to bet some of them took less money to come over.

Levi, Popovych, Paulinho and Horner are there out of loyalty to Jb and Lance. With KLÖDEN the question of why he felt no loyalty to AC begs to be asked.

Jesus Christ. AC is in your head almost as bad as he is in Lance's. You kids need to get a grip. As David Millar said today: Lance's knows that AC is better than him. That even at his best, Lance couldn't be AC.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If you think that Radio Shack in its first year is automaticly the Yankees of Cycling I'd love to see some numbers on that they are paid.

I'd be willing to bet some of them took less money to come over.

Levi, Popovych, Paulinho and Horner are there out of loyalty to Jb and Lance. With KLÖDEN the question of why he felt no loyalty to AC begs to be asked.

Uh, no.

Horner asked off the team as soon as he was denied a TdF start. Bruyneel said no.

Levi has left the team before to be a leader elsewhere.

Kloden, as well as the others went where the money was. Contador couldn't offer them anything at that point, so it was only logical to go with the sure thing.

The only people still asking that question are the truly obtuse.

 

[lagartija]

You talk as though you don't believe there's a mental aspect to this sport.

Schleck is on a killer team. Radio Shack is the deepest team in the sport. Astana is very very vulnerable and Vino could be more of a distraction than Lance ever was. Team problems are the greatest threat to Alberto winning this year. I don't know if he could have got out of his Astana contract if he wanted to or not. Obviously he thinks he can win with this bunch but personally, I don't think he's the brightest bulb on the tree.
Alberto better be stronger than he was last year because Lance certainly will be.

As recently as Jan 15th Lance has said; "I wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't think I can win the Tour de France"

I saw team tactics of Lance and JB break a lot of great riders before. It's no certain thing that they can do it again but I sure wouldn't say they can't.

radioshack the deepest team? really.......do they have 3 grand tour winners?...astana does, however you cut it, thats 6 grand tours alltogether, 3 different riders, that seems pretty deep to me.......
you dont think hes the brightest bulb.........but pharmstrongs comments seem rational and intelligent to you? not trying to insult but it seems you have missed the plot altogether ...........
vino even after his malfeasance will not incessantly make condescending comments, twitters or ridiculous press statements on his presumption of his team leader not adhering to the general welfare of there team... or his perceived team plan ...........
i bet you thought when pharmstrong finished, what , 11th in the tour prolouge he was just warming up, and in case you forgot it was all the same propaganda in 2009,"the road will decide", it did , day 1..............
so tell me what happened to '' the days of this team being built around me are over,ill gladly work for levi if thats what presents itself in july"

 

[hfer07]

I don't know what the specifics are, but that is just an example of how no pay-gate was used an abused to the benefit of someone else's master plan. By this I'm not saying rider x did not get paid amount y at time z, I am informing you that the majority of riders got paid what was specified in their contracts.

You may argue that that is the case because of the pressure put on the team by western media outlets, and that would be a valid argument. But I'm not going in that direction. I'm talking about this nasty habit, on the part of some western media outlets, of taking something Lance Armstrong says and passing it along as fact, not even bothering to check with the other side of the argument, namely the Astana team sponsors.

And, again, by this I'm not saying that that there may have been some truth to the no pay-gate scandal. Thus us, the interested idiots, are forced to put the pieces of the puzzle together with little or no information available. In my case, since I do not trusth anything LA or JB say, I opine that these two crooks were cooking something up by the time AC won the Giro.

You have to understand, JB and LA are, above all, businessmen and they will jump at the first opportunity that comes around. I guarantee you, and I'd bet my left testicle on this, that LA's ego detests, HATES, the idea of anyone challenging his record. So we have what has happened to Astana during the past 2 years: LA's ego trip.

I find very interesting your observations, since i agreed mostly with them-I even dare to speculate that LA's comeback started in the autumn of 2007 when Bruyneel got involved with Astana-Back them, I read from a magazine article that Discovery wanted out of the sport due the constant doping scandals & LA's heat over the lawsuits and the details leaked in the media-therefore nobody from USA was willing to sponsor LA/JB team "at Pro- Level"--Oracle was interested only in "continental" so they got frustrated....until Bruyneel found Astana:
As you mentioned, the LA/JB business orientated mentality found a great opportunity to get an already established PRO-Team with flaws that could be easily fixed and nurture his return at the proper time... Unfortunately for them
AC, Vino and the Kazakhs realized what was coming & they simply fought back--on the road, in the races, in the press, with the money & sponsors.

I do believe also that by the time LA announced his comeback, the Radioshalk team idea was shaping up & meetings had taken place to work the transition-that's one of the main reasons of LA unwillingness to sign anything with Astana-and since Bruyneel owns most of the rider's contracts & road infrastructure, the path was already clear to depart from them as scheduled.
After that-I think is history, but I must say that "history" is what a lot of people -not only here in these forums but out there need to get informed about, so they can comprehend where the constant criticisms against LA & JB come from, and most importantly why most of the cycling community want them retired, out of business of busted-either way!!

 

[Ferminal]

I'm tired. someone else educate him for us will ya?

Assuming that negative support is unquantifiable, we can compare 2009 and 2010 in terms of positive support.

Now 2009, the TTT provided positive support, but because we're comparing it with 2010 which doesn't have a TTT, we can't consider it.

So

2009 Astana Support = Very limited you can count having Klodi up there in the same colours as you as "support" but what he did doesn't constitute direct support for Contador. You could probably say that's the same kind of support Silence-Lotto had for Evans with JVdB flying around the pointy end. Probably a 2.5/10, compared to say Saxo who would be 9 or 10.

2010 Astana Support = Rather than Kloden, there is someone called Vinokourov, you may have seen him ride previously. Despite the myth that he has never supported a team effort, he actually has. Even if he is individualistic in his approach, his presence will give that same "benefit" as Andreas. Also there's a cyclist known as "Oscar" apparently he won a yellow shirt a few years back at the circus? Then there's someone who helped Lance Armstrong to two wins. An Italian, Tiralongo who supported Basso in Spain and others who can definitely be in the final group of 30-40. I don't know, even if all these solid riders underperform, it will still be a 5 or 6.

I hope that was educational enough for you.

 

[El Imbatido]

If you think that Radio Shack in its first year is automaticly the Yankees of Cycling I'd love to see some numbers on that they are paid.

I'd be willing to bet some of them took less money to come over.

Levi, Popovych, Paulinho and Horner are there out of loyalty to Jb and Lance. With KLÖDEN the question of why he felt no loyalty to AC begs to be asked.

I think we know most of them are there because of $$$ (as well as the "program" they provide but that is an issue for the clinic not here). ie. Why would Levi go to a team that he knows he is not gonna be the leader of for most likely two years, when he himself has said he has ambitions to win the tour. All about the $$$, my friend.

 

[Ferminal]

I'd say JB's great "support" is a deciding factor too

 

[hfer07]

I think we know most of them are there because of $$$ (as well as the "program" they provide but that is an issue for the clinic not here). ie. Why would Levi go to a team that he knows he is not gonna be the leader of for most likely two years, when he himself has said he has ambitions to win the tour. All about the $$$, my friend.

in all fairness to Levi-he did some talks to BMC along with George Hincapie, but when Cadel's name appeared in the project, he realized right away he was going to have the same power struggle he had with AC back in 07...
so no need to be a rocket scientist to know he prefered to secure his retirement with the shack and get his last ToC titles guaranteed

 

[franciep10]

in all fairness to Levi-he did some talks to BMC along with George Hincapie, but when Cadel's name appeared in the project, he realized right away he was going to have the same power struggle he had with AC back in 07...
so no need to be a rocket scientist to know he prefered to secure his retirement with the shack and get his last ToC titles guaranteed

I kind of hope lance wins TOC, just so I could laugh and show his "highness" selfishness i would love to hear the spin from lance and levi.

 

[Bike Boy]

Perhaps you should try asking a question that someone on these forums could actually know. If I knew how Lance was spending his money, I suspect my name would Lance Armstrong or whatever his accountant's name is.

You're absolutely right. This is leading nowhere, however you do underline my point. Apparantly facts is not always necessary when the guy in center of attention is Lance Armstrong.

I would like to see how certain members of this forum would react if Contador was exposed to the same amount of speculation.

I will let it rest for now. to continue this discussion is pointless.

Anyway thanks for taking your time to consider my thoughts. That is what it's all about, respecting each others difference in opinion.

Have a good day

 

[Publicus]

You're absolutely right. This is leading nowhere, however you do underline my point. Apparantly facts is not always necessary when the guy in center of attention is Lance Armstrong.

I would like to see how certain members of this forum would react if Contador was exposed to the same amount of speculation.

I will let it rest for now. to continue this discussion is pointless.

Anyway thanks for taking your time to consider my thoughts. That is what it's all about, respecting each others difference in opinion.

Have a good day

Folks already throw off one-off, unsubstantiated comments about Contador all the time. Heck, even Armstrong does it and he knows the guy personally! Sometimes a person's comments are based on ignorance (so I ask), but once it becomes clear that it is personal animus driving the comment, I say let it go, it's not worth the irrational back and forth that will certainly ensue.

And no worries. I like engage in discussions, so the more folks willing to do so in a rational manner, the better.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Please continue this discussion in the official Lance Armstrong thread.