Brits don't dope?

[Parker]

Funny that, from what I remember of Radcliffe on the track, she normally used to set the pace and try and run as fast a time trial as possible to burn off the faster sprinters. Strange how she managed to do that without running a time.

So when all those world records were set with pacemakers they were doing it all wrong. They should have just run on the front themselves. Her best times were the ones where she succeeded in dropping them (easily), so didn't need to keep anything in reserve.

Do you think she started those races with the prime objective of setting a PB?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

So when all those world records were set with pacemakers they were doing it all wrong. They should have just run on the front themselves. Her best times were the ones where she succeeded in dropping them (easily), so didn't need to keep anything in reserve.

Do you think she started those races with the prime objective of setting a PB?

I give up.

 

[Catwhoorg]

This. Running is very linear - the projected times nearly always line up - for amateurs as well. It is even more linear than cycling because there is no drafting, big spikes in effort etc.

Mine do. Pretty well from 5K out to the HM, well they did until I had a breakthrough time in the HM this year.

(Dropped 4 min off my time due to a much better training cycle).

Now I need to get the other distances aligned which certainly for the 5K requires a much different structure in training.

But enough about mid pack amateurs like myself.

Lets take Mo Farah (who I know several here have suspicions about)

Road PB for 10K is 27:44 (predicts a 2:07:52 marathon)
HM is 1:00:00 (predicts a 2:05:50 marathon)
marathon PB is 2:08:21

Not perfectly aligned but pretty close really.

(Edit)
He also is unlikely ever to win a major marathon without a step change in his performance. He is going to be 3 min behind the pace at most of them.

 

[Parker]

When did I say the mile is a relevant event?
Again: I wondered that her worst PB came when young, while the world class times came when older.

You implied it was relevant by attaching relevance to her mile PB. Anyone with a basic knowledge of athletics knows it's almost an obsolete event. It's like bringing up Michael Johnson's 300m times.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Why? That´s how it always goes. A doper is exposed, then defenders come up. Business as usual.

Just wait for the next 100 posts. I bet at least one of the "big 3" ("heart", "cadence", "better training") will come up.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I give up.

You implied it was relevant by attaching relevance to her mile PB. Anyone with a basic knowledge of athletics knows it's almost an obsolete event. It's like bringing up Michael Johnson's 300m times.

I give up.

But you do me one final favour please? "A top on the ice cream": Please mention one of the "big 3". Thanks in advance...

 

[Parker]

I give up.

I give up.

Maybe you should try watching the races you're talking about.

A doper is exposed, then defenders come up. Business as usual.

I haven't actually defended her. She's actually one of my least favourite British sports people (largely due to the BBC fawning over her excessively for years).
I personally doubt she doped. Maybe she did though. But you're trying to manufacture 'evidence' from cluelessness.

 

[the sceptic]

I give up.

But you do me one final favour please? "A top on the ice cream": Please mention one of the "big 3". Thanks in advance...

I'm waiting for the tailwind. And the Walsh book.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Maybe you should try watching the races you're talking about.

My reply: (I feel free to quote you Sceptic )

Anyone can look clean if you try hard enough.

---

I'm waiting for the tailwind. And the Walsh book.

Tailwind, tailwind... how could I have missed that one. LMAO.

 

[MartinGT]

What dope testing controls happen at marathons like London, NYC etc?

The lack of a medal at the Olympics, maybe on less gear due to increased testing?

 

[simoni]

With regard to the olympics....she was unsuited to championship track races and the fast finishes (failed I think in 96 and 2000 over 5000m and 10000m respectively).

The 2004 marathon, the story we're told is that she had an injury (thigh prob I think from memory) and the anti-inflam injections etc. ruined her stomach so she was basically running on empty. Whether you choose to believe this or not is up to you. It seems feasible to me but obviously another scenario isn't difficult to imagine.

In 2008 marathon she was injured during the buildup - this was known several months out and she came under criticism for not withdrawing and allowing someone fully fit to take her place.

2012 - pulled out beforehand, again with injury.

She did win a couple of medals in the world champs though - silver in 10000m (1999 I think?) and 2005 marathon. Not sure what differences there are in testing between the two.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

The lack of a medal at the Olympics, maybe on less gear due to increased testing?

Nah... She simply wasn´training for those events.

 

[thehog]

I'm waiting for the tailwind. And the Walsh book.

The Walsh book is the next step. He'll save the day with a butterfly on her shoulder.

 

[grizzlee]

I give up.

But you do me one final favour please? "A top on the ice cream": Please mention one of the "big 3". Thanks in advance...

Don't be so ****ing smug. This is a forum, people are allowed to have an opinion here. You both had some good valid points and then you had to do the usual smart **** clinic special and ruin it all.

 

[Catwhoorg]

What dope testing controls happen at marathons like London, NYC etc?

The lack of a medal at the Olympics, maybe on less gear due to increased testing?

The world majors are some of the best tested events around

quoting from :
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/shalane-flanagan-sounds-off-about-doping


RT: Do you ever just think that the Olympics aren’t going to be that relevant anymore and the World Marathon Majors, where they have the money for testing, are where you want to devote your energies?

SF: I actually said that to Jerry [Schumacher, her coach]. I’m actually in one of the better-monitored stages with the World Marathon Majors, because they’re kind of their own entity in a way. In this case, it seems like they’re going to take a much more harsh and active stance. I feel like, oh, thank God, I have people on my side to back me up and validate.

But I think it’s because there’s more money involved. Therefore they want to make sure they don’t hand off a check to the wrong person. I feel fortunate that I’m in the marathon world, to a degree, because there’s going to be a more active stance. There’s still been some women who have gone through the system and escaped it to a degree for a while. The Olympics are going to be a little … I don’t know, shakier, I guess.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Also distance runners tend to peak around 30ish, not their early 20s as you seem to think.

Th jury is still out on that. upper 20's is the consensus, but some excEPtioOnal athletes stand out, and change the curve. (BTW, Lagat just turned 40...)

What dope testing controls happen at marathons like London, NYC etc?

The lack of a medal at the Olympics, maybe on less gear due to increased testing?

The World Majors Marathon series adds some OCC tests for those in the hunt (and we know how successful that is...) But, we are talking about the period from 2006-2008, so longitudinal testing was understood but not yet procedure.

Her (and others') decline after the BP is a small red (maybe orange) flag. Pulling the Andy Schleck...

 

[Parker]

Th jury is still out on that. upper 20's is the consensus, but some excEPtioOnal athletes stand out, and change the curve.

......

Her (and others') decline after the BP is a small red (maybe orange) flag. Pulling the Andy Schleck...

She was 35 when the BP came in (2009, I assume).

So according to your quoted points both declining and not declining form would have been indications of doping. Win-win, eh.

 

[blackcat]

She regularly commentates/pundits on athletics stuff for BBC. The "out of character" theory is nonsense.

The rest is open to debate.

go jimmy saville on her empire crew.
go jimmy saville on her.


the empire crew can do it. dont believe in false gods and charlatans.

empire crew can rise to the level of The Clinic 12. shur can.

 

[blackcat]

Asking Radcliffe some hard questions now her career is over is valid. She should be able to tell us how she did it.

no she wont. not if she was doping. you expect her to come clean when there is a chance this blows over and she can go back to her high profile gigs at 1millGBP per annum?


someone with some background in sports and professional scene and doping, with a statistician, could provide a simple ground of circumstantial evidence. yesalis, hoberman, savulescu, catlin.

statistics.


#statistics


like Bubba said, its the economy stupid, and johnnie cochrane said if the glove dont fit,

well, if the numbers aint legit, the blood was running too thick.

 

[blackcat]

I remember Radcliffe front running many Championship races only to see her opponents blast past her at the finish. She had absolutely no change of pace/sprint. She was ideally suited for marathon running and it was always inevitable she would go that route.

maybe she was just not that talented at the shorter distance. Your premise is she had latent ability.

yeah, latent ability to shoot from the mouth.

the latent ability for marathons might have come from a ferrari

just saying...

empire crew, more edifying at oxbridge broat races

 

[blackcat]

As I always say: Stats and numbers don´t lie. The wrong interpretations of those numbers give statistics a bad reputation...

Anyway, when it walks like a duck... it normally is. Add in the stories we were sold before (how could I have forgotten to mention Ben Johnson? ), everything is clear. Another big time doper got away with it. That´s the sad truth...

The Lady doth protest too much methinks

 

[blackcat]

Some background reading:

https://www.exeter.ac.uk/media/univ...nalexeter/documents/iss/paula_ijssc_paper.pdf

hope this aint a coyle efficiency study.

can i peer review the coyle study never having studied any science in highschool or uni?

 

[blackcat]

radcliffe wont be sending jimmy saville rolf harris or lance armstrong any christmas cards or dinnter invitations so i will send the felicitations on her behalf

 

[wrinklyvet]

radcliffe wont be sending jimmy saville rolf harris or lance armstrong any christmas cards or dinnter invitations so i will send the felicitations on her behalf

Savile is dead. In his case you may be wasting your time.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

She was 35 when the BP came in (2009, I assume).

So according to your quoted points both declining and not declining form would have been indications of doping. Win-win, eh.

Huh?

She declined because she got old. Or she declined because of less egregious doping due to BP. Or both. I fail to see how they are contradictory.