Brits don't dope?

[Catwhoorg]

I know cycling (track) gets a focus here, but teamGB has more gold medal sportsthan any other nation at Rio, and by a large margin.

If doping is the only answer, then it must be very widespread indeed
Cycling
Rowing
Gymnastics
Sailing
Swimming
Canoe
Athletics
Diving
Equestrian
Triathlon
Golf
Tennis
Taekwondo

With probably a boxing gold to come.

(and a decent medal chance in modern pentathlon, though probably not a gold IMHO)

 

[Catwhoorg]

Re: Re:

If you look at the whole table, 2000, 2004 were pretty much a return to/just ahead of post war historical levels of medals. (A few top #10s mostly low teens).
2008, 2012 (and 2016) are rankings teamGB haven't seen since the 1920s

1996 was an aberration to be sure.

Really? "return to/just ahead" or twice as much gold

I was focused on the ranking.
Mainly as the specific medal totals on offer each year have changed so much over the years.

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

The thing about Atlanta is that some of it was just down to bad luck on the day. I can't really explain for other sports as I don't know enough (I was only 5 so only have vague memories of it) but the athletics results in particular were disappointing without being totally abysmal and it was just a cumulative effect . At the time, Britain had the world record holders in the triple jump and 110m hurdles - Edwards had a bad day and only got the silver, and Jackson once again did his famous disappearing act in the final. Steve Backley was beaten by Jan Zelezny, it had been an Olympics too far for Christie and Gunnell, while Roger Black came 2nd to MJ in the 400m

It just wasn't a stellar cycle for track and field that time. One Olympics too far for some of the big names, while the others didn't deliver or were beaten by some great athletes. It wasn't actually that bad - 6 medals which may end up being more than the T&F haul from this time. It just so happens that none of them were (officially) gold. Sydney was a massive step up but it all came from sports outside T&F (3 golds in sailing and 2 in rowing, for a start), and we still finished behind Cuba

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

Obvious state sponsored doping

'nuff said

Actually looking at 2012, team GB under performed. 541 athletes compared with 313 in Beijing - basic extrapolation means they should have got 33 Golds. The big increase in 2000 was after lottery money kicked in (1997). The blip is 2004 (although the total number is better) - not sure why, we'd need to look further at what sports the medals were won in.

So, I don't think its state sponsored doping - its state sponsored funding (in this case lottery).

 

[AlbineVespuzzio]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

Obvious state sponsored doping

'nuff said

Actually looking at 2012, team GB under performed. 541 athletes compared with 313 in Beijing - basic extrapolation means they should have got 33 Golds. The big increase in 2000 was after lottery money kicked in (1997). The blip is 2004 (although the total number is better) - not sure why, we'd need to look further at what sports the medals were won in.

So, I don't think its state sponsored doping - its state sponsored funding (in this case lottery).

That's incorrect thinking. At home events, nations present athletes/teams for all events (don't need minimums), so there's many there that have absolutely no chance. Basic extrapolation makes no sense in that case.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In 2012 TeamGB fielded football teams which they are unlikely ever to do so (because politics), handball teams (which went a combined 0-10), thats a good chunk of the increased # of athletes right there.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

Obvious state sponsored doping

'nuff said

Only "obvious state sponsored doping" if you have done absolutely nil research. 1997 was the start of lottery funding with the sole intention of winning Olympic medals. Lo and behold there's been a linear progression since in line with increased funding every Olympic cycle;

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/about-us

Soccer attracts even more money but I see no leap forward there just as East Germany never won much. In fact English soccer academies are staggeringly well funded but zero progress.

 

[buckle]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/olympic-cycling-medalist-mark-cavendish-rubbishes-claims-foul-play-team-gb-1576865

It's all out there if you actually wanted to look for it

According to Wiggins "they pulled my bike apart" when setting the WR. Was he riding the crap or the magic bike on that occasion? I suppose it had nothing to do with Heiko Salzwedel this performance? No mention of bike technology then. Wiggins attributes his return to top track form to Heiko also. No mention of wonder bikes or accommodation issues from Wiggins. I heard no complaints from the team about hotel accommodation at any point in the last five years if not longer. Where is all this information that's out there?

 

[djpbaltimore]

What I notice from the larger table is that GB had so many olympics where they had many more silvers than golds (1-8, 2-6, 3-10, 4-12, 3-14). The same is true in many cases for bronzes as well (5-21 in LA). They've reversed that trend in the last 3 olympics.

 

[buckle]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/olympic-cycling-medalist-mark-cavendish-rubbishes-claims-foul-play-team-gb-1576865

It's all out there if you actually wanted to look for it

Unusually for a track coach, Salzwedel is a believer in altitude camps and road races for his track riders, meaning he has had them schlepping up Mt Teide in Tenerife, most famously used by Team Sky for their Tour de France preparations, for much of the winter.

Did they use their magic bikes schlepping up Mt Teide?

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I know cycling (track) gets a focus here, but teamGB has more gold medal sportsthan any other nation at Rio, and by a large margin.

If doping is the only answer, then it must be very widespread indeed
Cycling
Rowing
Gymnastics
Sailing
Swimming
Canoe
Athletics
Diving
Equestrian
Triathlon
Golf
Tennis
Taekwondo

With probably a boxing gold to come.

(and a decent medal chance in modern pentathlon, though probably not a gold IMHO)

You're conveniently diverting from the fact that nearly a quarter of GB's medals came from cycling, a sport hugely assisted by doping. As is triathlon, swimming, athletics, rowing, gymnastics, tennis, boxing and tae kwon do.

 

[Benotti69]

They may know their onions, but the one thing they really know is their grapes - the sour ones. They've been beaten fair and square - again.

How can you know that? Fair and square! How?

Iain Dyer caught lying about teams not having same form as World championships when most performed better!

Take off the national health specs for a moment!

The British team hold back on all technology until the Olympics. It's such a straightforward explanation for the peaking but inconvenient for the preferred narrative on here, so the scoffing that certainly does go on is at such reasonable claims as marginal gains etc.

If you want to call if financial doping then fair enough. But that is the only form of doping going on.

Please produce evidence of the British using inferior technology at other events.

Only form of doping? How can you know?

The sports culture and history tell a very different story.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/olympic-cycling-medalist-mark-cavendish-rubbishes-claims-foul-play-team-gb-1576865

It's all out there if you actually wanted to look for it

Your give Cavendish as a source of honesty? Really? You expect Cavendish to be believed!

Ha! Stick to your one year post every july

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

Obvious state sponsored doping

'nuff said

Actually looking at 2012, team GB under performed. 541 athletes compared with 313 in Beijing - basic extrapolation means they should have got 33 Golds. The big increase in 2000 was after lottery money kicked in (1997). The blip is 2004 (although the total number is better) - not sure why, we'd need to look further at what sports the medals were won in.

So, I don't think its state sponsored doping - its state sponsored funding (in this case lottery).

That's incorrect thinking. At home events, nations present athletes/teams for all events (don't need minimums), so there's many there that have absolutely no chance. Basic extrapolation makes no sense in that case.

Ok, that may be the case re: flooding the entrants. But I bet the majority of the £ went to the sports that could win (like cycling, rowing, etc.) thus improving the medal take.

I think people really under estimate the funding area. 20-30 years ago if you were a top athlete (I use the word across all sports here) you were not funded, or if you were it was pennies. You had to rely on sponsorship. Now we have lottery and government funding for top athletes (in certain sports). This allows them to basically be full time athletes - add in sponsorship as well and it adds up as a fairly good earner. For an athlete to be able to be full time is a huge difference - instead of training around and 8 hour job, they can spend that 8 hours training.

 

[Vladivar]

Re: Re:

East-Germany's doping program seems amateurish compared to what is happening currently in the UK. Very disturbing stuff.

Really? What *is* happening in the UK? I don't know. Do you?

Obvious state sponsored doping

'nuff said

Only "obvious state sponsored doping" if you have done absolutely nil research. 1997 was the start of lottery funding with the sole intention of winning Olympic medals. Lo and behold there's been a linear progression since in line with increased funding every Olympic cycle;

http://www.uksport.gov.uk/about-us

deluded british people with colonial hangover & state propaganda

It is fine that you appear to dislike the UK a nation, i was born here, live here and i dont like it that much.

Stating that British people are deluded is in my opinion a poor representation of a country you obviously do not know a lot about. Colonial hangover is more in my political circles colonial disquiet with our not so illustrious past. However i will apologise for what we did over the centuries despite me being born well after the end of empire.

As for state propaganda, do you really think a nation that voted for Brexit against its Government wishes is in any way subjugated to Government influence.

The UK has done incredibly well these Olympic games, yet you ignore mitigating reason. I am also pretty sure some UK athletes dope as do some from every country. But the UK Olympic scene changed with Lottery money and that just can not be ignored.


You also have to take in the cultural aspects of UK sport. As you know little of the UK you may not realise that the Olympics actually do not mean that much to most people here. It is simply an event that fills in the gap until the Football season starts for most in my opinion.

Again in my opinion The Football World Cup is a far bigger event in the UK than the Olympics ever will be.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Add Hockey to the above list now

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Again in my opinion The Football World Cup is a far bigger event in the UK than the Olympics ever will be.

You're right it is big, problem is England have a habit of being overpaid non-achievers ...

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

I think people really under estimate the funding area. 20-30 years ago if you were a top athlete (I use the word across all sports here) you were not funded, or if you were it was pennies. You had to rely on sponsorship. Now we have lottery and government funding for top athletes (in certain sports). This allows them to basically be full time athletes - add in sponsorship as well and it adds up as a fairly good earner. For an athlete to be able to be full time is a huge difference - instead of training around and 8 hour job, they can spend that 8 hours training

.

According to Cav they save up their money up for 4 years then blow it all on one huge training binge just before the Olympics? Can you confirm this operating model? Is this formula applied across all the other disciplines?

 

[domination]

[/quote]

Your give Cavendish as a source of honesty? Really? You expect Cavendish to be believed!

Ha! Stick to your one year post every july [/quote]

I shall. And I'm sure you'll stick to posting 2,500 posts a year without ever giving a shred of evidence to back up your claims.

Meanwhile Team GB take yet another gold; this time in hockey, clearly PED fuelled once again. Nothing to do with central funding at all, obviously.

 

[buckle]

Re: Re:

Again in my opinion The Football World Cup is a far bigger event in the UK than the Olympics ever will be.

You're right it is big, problem is England have a habit of being overpaid non-achievers ...

Have they tried doping? Works for Germany, Italy, Spain and now Portugal.

As an aside, I must admire Roy Hodgson. I strongly suspect he didn't dope the boys in France. I could be wrong but I also suspect the boys agreed to this. Why? I think they wanted a break from it. They are millionaires, what do they care about an OBE?

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

I know cycling (track) gets a focus here, but teamGB has more gold medal sportsthan any other nation at Rio, and by a large margin.

If doping is the only answer, then it must be very widespread indeed
Cycling
Rowing
Gymnastics
Sailing
Swimming
Canoe
Athletics
Diving
Equestrian
Triathlon
Golf
Tennis
Taekwondo

With probably a boxing gold to come.

(and a decent medal chance in modern pentathlon, though probably not a gold IMHO)

You're conveniently diverting from the fact that nearly a quarter of GB's medals came from cycling, a sport hugely assisted by doping. As is triathlon, swimming, athletics, rowing, gymnastics, tennis, boxing and tae kwon do.

More so on the road than the track.

One thing is for sure - Track Cycling lends itself to small improvements here and there. Other sports don't. And with £30m of funding for them, well those small improvements will be more prevalent.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Fun Stat, if you eliminate swimming,

#TeamGB would be top of the medal table
(GB 22, US 21 China 21 golds)

Will not stay that way, but illustrative

 

[Bwlch y Groes]

Britain just disqualified after winning their 4x400m heat, letting Brazil into the final. Looking forward to this batch of paranoia

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I know cycling (track) gets a focus here, but teamGB has more gold medal sportsthan any other nation at Rio, and by a large margin.

If doping is the only answer, then it must be very widespread indeed
Cycling
Rowing
Gymnastics
Sailing
Swimming
Canoe
Athletics
Diving
Equestrian
Triathlon
Golf
Tennis
Taekwondo

With probably a boxing gold to come.

(and a decent medal chance in modern pentathlon, though probably not a gold IMHO)

You're conveniently diverting from the fact that nearly a quarter of GB's medals came from cycling, a sport hugely assisted by doping. As is triathlon, swimming, athletics, rowing, gymnastics, tennis, boxing and tae kwon do.

More so on the road than the track.

One thing is for sure - Track Cycling lends itself to small improvements here and there. Other sports don't. And with £30m of funding for them, well those small improvements will be more prevalent.

You're kidding, right? Track cycling is a huge dopefest. Some of the track cyclists look like this:

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Britain just disqualified after winning their 4x400m heat, letting Brazil into the final. Looking forward to this batch of paranoia

but we have the judges in our pockets, i have been told this by the board on a regular basis during the olympics, how could this be allowed to happen?

 

[buckle]

Re:

Fun Stat, if you eliminate swimming,

#TeamGB would be top of the medal table
(GB 22, US 21 China 21 golds)

Will not stay that way, but illustrative

Where is Tenerife in the medals table?