Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

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Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
Does Adam really have a better one day pedigree? Both have won two one day races, I think, and while San Sebastián is the biggest of the four, I don’t think winning it is enough to be placed on a different level. This worlds is so climbing heavy that Simon’s far superior mountain palmares may be more relevant anyway.
Adam definitely has a better pedigree in the long distance one day races of over 200 kms - Adam's issue is his form can be patchy later in the season.
 
Simon looks great but I see two big problems for him.
1. Even if he doesn't crack completely like in the giro I expect him to fade a bit in the 3rd week. Let's not forget that he already faded late in a gt before this years giro and since he definitely won't have as big of a gap going into the last three mountain stages as in the giro even fading a little might be too much.
2. He has to hope that either Valverde or Quintana crack at some point because defending against both on stage 20 will be close to impossible. Generally one shouldn't forget that the time gaps on stage 20 alone might be as big as the time gaps in the current general classification so there is still a lot that could happen.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Gigs_98 said:
Simon looks great but I see two big problems for him.
1. Even if he doesn't crack completely like in the giro I expect him to fade a bit in the 3rd week. Let's not forget that he already faded late in a gt before this years giro and since he definitely won't have as big of a gap going into the last three mountain stages as in the giro even fading a little might be too much.
2. He has to hope that either Valverde or Quintana crack at some point because defending against both on stage 20 will be close to impossible. Generally one shouldn't forget that the time gaps on stage 20 alone might be as big as the time gaps in the current general classification so there is still a lot that could happen.

1.He was clearly below peak in the first week which should help, and hasn't gone half as deep so far. And his main competition are going for back to back GTs. I for one welcome a top rider who actually fades like a human being after prolonged exertion.

2. Defending both is a nightmare if you have no team support, and are weaker than one of them. If Adam is trying to ride in to form, he should be getting close to being able to ride with the top 10 and keep a pace going. Simon looked stronger than both today, and if that continues it will be a moot point.
 
Re: Re:

Blanco said:
Devil's Elbow said:
JoeD1997 said:
Today was Simon's 7th WT stage win this season. I'm 99% sure Valverde has won as many WT races in a season in the past, and possibly someone like Froome, Quintana and Bertie? Very impressive feat by Simon to win so many WT races as a climber, especially when they all came in stage races, rather than the Fleche/Liege/San Sebastian that faster-finishing climbers like Alejandro can win
Froome had 6 WT stage wins and 3 GCs in 2013. Contador had 5 stages and 3 GCs in 2014. Nibali and Quintana never did better than 6 and 5 (stages and GC combined) respectively though, and interestingly Valverde's best is 'just' 4 stages, 2 GCs and 2 classics (in 2017). 7 stages might be a record for a climber.

Edit: Rodriguez had 7 stages (in addition to 2 classics) in 2012.
He has 5 this year + 2 GC's
Also 5 WT(PT) stage wins in 2008 (and 1 GC and 2 one days)
 
Waterloo Sunrise said:
Gigs_98 said:
Simon looks great but I see two big problems for him.
1. Even if he doesn't crack completely like in the giro I expect him to fade a bit in the 3rd week. Let's not forget that he already faded late in a gt before this years giro and since he definitely won't have as big of a gap going into the last three mountain stages as in the giro even fading a little might be too much.
2. He has to hope that either Valverde or Quintana crack at some point because defending against both on stage 20 will be close to impossible. Generally one shouldn't forget that the time gaps on stage 20 alone might be as big as the time gaps in the current general classification so there is still a lot that could happen.

1.He was clearly below peak in the first week which should help, and hasn't gone half as deep so far. And his main competition are going for back to back GTs. I for one welcome a top rider who actually fades like a human being after prolonged exertion.

2. Defending both is a nightmare if you have no team support, and are weaker than one of them. If Adam is trying to ride in to form, he should be getting close to being able to ride with the top 10 and keep a pace going. Simon looked stronger than both today, and if that continues it will be a moot point.
Adam is on the way. He really should be there after a rest day and an ITT. Haig was disappointing today after finishing 13th within a minute yesterday.

Yates is riding within himself, careful not to blow himself up. Yet he's beaten Valverde at every MTF. Waiting to win the sprint and close most of the gap to Lopez was a very smart move.

Monte Oiz shouldn't be a stage where teammates are very important. If he's great there, he should put the hammer down to distance Valverde.

Rabassa is weird and I think it will be a climb which will probably have an insane pace in the first half followed by chaos in the 2nd half.

The Andorra stage should be madness with gaps being as small as they are.
 
Waterloo Sunrise said:
Gigs_98 said:
Simon looks great but I see two big problems for him.
1. Even if he doesn't crack completely like in the giro I expect him to fade a bit in the 3rd week. Let's not forget that he already faded late in a gt before this years giro and since he definitely won't have as big of a gap going into the last three mountain stages as in the giro even fading a little might be too much.
2. He has to hope that either Valverde or Quintana crack at some point because defending against both on stage 20 will be close to impossible. Generally one shouldn't forget that the time gaps on stage 20 alone might be as big as the time gaps in the current general classification so there is still a lot that could happen.

1.He was clearly below peak in the first week which should help, and hasn't gone half as deep so far. And his main competition are going for back to back GTs. I for one welcome a top rider who actually fades like a human being after prolonged exertion.
Why? I'd rather cheer for someone who performs in the clutch. Not that I have anything against Simon
 
Re: Re:

Red Rick said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Simon is definitely riding more controlled than the Giro. And this time he doesn't need 2 minutes before the time trial so he can afford to take it more controlled as well.

Still, if he's leading after TT expect him to get attacked from all sides by Movistar
He really needs his brother to stop being useless. He's been less useful so far than Antonio last year.
LOL!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Re:

perico said:
Red Rick said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
Simon is definitely riding more controlled than the Giro. And this time he doesn't need 2 minutes before the time trial so he can afford to take it more controlled as well.

Still, if he's leading after TT expect him to get attacked from all sides by Movistar
He really needs his brother to stop being useless. He's been less useful so far than Antonio last year.
LOL!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm pretty sure I'm Antonio's biggest fan on here.
 
Definitely cheering for Yates to win the Vuelta. He's the most aggressive among the top guns (he doesn't have a lot of competition there though), even with his monumental collapse in the Giro still fresh in the mind.

Adam's shape seems to be improving so it might be a huge confidence boost when he has his brother by his side in the 3rd week.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Good showing by Adam today, bodes well. Simon fine but lost a few seconds in the last 150m - hopefully not the sign of anything more serious, but in any case a rolling rest day next up and then a 1 climb classic Vuelta day.
 
Hopefully not the start of something more alarming for Simon, but losing a few seconds in the massively steep last 100m is ok. Having his brother back in top form should be a big boost for him.

The longer climbs should also suit him more than Valverde.
 
Re:

tobydawq said:
Time to pin number 81 on Adam's bike and switch clothes?
:lol:

I don't know but I still don't feel overly comfortable in Simon. He won't blow up like in the giro, I'm pretty sure about that, but Yates has a history of fading towards the end of a gt so this might have been a sign for things to come. One thing that is positive for him though is that valverde hasn't looked good on the longer climbs so far and that Quintana's shape limits Movistar's tactical options
 
Re: Re:

Gigs_98 said:
tobydawq said:
Time to pin number 81 on Adam's bike and switch clothes?
:lol:

I don't know but I still don't feel overly comfortable in Simon. He won't blow up like in the giro, I'm pretty sure about that, but Yates has a history of fading towards the end of a gt so this might have been a sign for things to come. One thing that is positive for him though is that valverde hasn't looked good on the longer climbs so far and that Quintana's shape limits Movistar's tactical options
He doesnt need to blow up, all Valverde needs is to take a bit of time here, a bit of time there. The positive is that Simon has a great team at this point so it will be extremely hard to do anything in Rabassa.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
Gigs_98 said:
tobydawq said:
Time to pin number 81 on Adam's bike and switch clothes?
:lol:

I don't know but I still don't feel overly comfortable in Simon. He won't blow up like in the giro, I'm pretty sure about that, but Yates has a history of fading towards the end of a gt so this might have been a sign for things to come. One thing that is positive for him though is that valverde hasn't looked good on the longer climbs so far and that Quintana's shape limits Movistar's tactical options
He doesnt need to blow up, all Valverde needs is to take a bit of time here, a bit of time there. The positive is that Simon has a great team at this point so it will be extremely hard to do anything in Rabassa.
Depends. If Movistar is convinced Valverde can drop Yates they probably have the team to isolate him but only by riding a positive split and that is mightily risky. If Valverde, like on the previous longer and less steep mountain top finishes, isn't among the strongest that might very well cost him the podium so I guess Movistar will play it carefully and try to gain a few seconds on the final kilometer before starting the big attack on Saturday. Let's also not forget that if Quintana fades massively Movistar will not want to make him lose minutes by riding aggressively on stage 19 as him being in a position where he is still a big threat to Yates is the big tactical advantage Movistar has.
 
In theory, losing eight seconds to Valverde in a finale like that is nothing to worry about. Valverde should beat Yates in that situation. Given Simon’s recent history though it is hard not to be a little concerned. Adam suddenly showing up is a big help.
 
Jul 8, 2017
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Well, in Friday Yates also lost some seconds in a steep stuff and not even to a Murito specialist like Valverde and the next day he beat them all...
Still considering Yates' history and today's and yesterday's (TT) little fading in the TT is a bit disturbing...
Enric Mas is a dark horse for me.
 
Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
In theory, losing eight seconds to Valverde in a finale like that is nothing to worry about. Valverde should beat Yates in that situation. Given Simon’s recent history though it is hard not to be a little concerned. Adam suddenly showing up is a big help.
It could be a bad sign, but something similar happened earlier in the race when he lost a few seconds to Quintana. At the Giro he struggled late in the stage to Prato Nevoso and lost around 30 seconds before collapsing the next day. I don't think he showed the same signs of fatigue here.
 
Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
In theory, losing eight seconds to Valverde in a finale like that is nothing to worry about. Valverde should beat Yates in that situation. Given Simon’s recent history though it is hard not to be a little concerned. Adam suddenly showing up is a big help.
Yeah, but he didn't lost a single second to Valverde in entire Vuelta until yesterday. And he lost it on pure strength, no tactical games. That's something to worry about...
 
Re: Re:

Blanco said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
In theory, losing eight seconds to Valverde in a finale like that is nothing to worry about. Valverde should beat Yates in that situation. Given Simon’s recent history though it is hard not to be a little concerned. Adam suddenly showing up is a big help.
Yeah, but he didn't lost a single second to Valverde in entire Vuelta until yesterday. And he lost it on pure strength, no tactical games. That's something to worry about...

Not counting bonus seconds. :D
 

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