Teams & Riders Brothers in (crank) arms - Yates Discussion Thread

[jaylew]

Re:

Tour 2015 :surprised: You've got to be kidding! He lost it precisely because he didn't want to put everything on the line. He failed to do something similar to what Yates did on stage 15. Last time Nairo Quintana was an aggressive rider is Tour 2013. After that, he is becoming more and more conservative. He's quite often strongest rider in the mountains, but also quite often fails to materialize that.

Nairo tried multiple times in stages 12, 14, and 17 before finally being successful in stages 19 and 20. The difference is that Simon has been able to easily get away the few times he's attacked because he's far stronger than the people he's attacking which mostly hasn't been the case for Nairo as he almost always has gone up against Froome in his prime and his Tour train. I agree that Nairo hasn't been as aggressive in the last couple of years but we've also seen him getting dropped a bunch. It's not a video game, guys can only do what their legs let them do. It's easy to drop guys when you're the strongest rider in the race. You stated that Simon has been been more attacking this Giro than Nairo ever has been and that's just not a true statement as there are multiple instances of Nairo attacking more in a GT.

 

[macbindle]

Yates had created a working advantage with one tactic applied several times. He then buried himself in the TT to try and limit his losses. The next two stages work in his favour, but he looked very shaken up by today's events.

This is an awesome race

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

This sounds like such a trek move. Throw huge sums of money at a rider because of one performance after which he'll probably never reach that level again. Still surprised they didn't sign Kruijswijk.

Of course they might offer too much money by buying a rider on the basis of a breakthrough performance, but leaving aside salary, S Yates would appear to be about the best bet as a GT leader available on the market. He is only 25 and this performance isn’t coming out of nowhere - as a 23 year old he came 6th in the Vuelta and as a 24 year old he came 7th in the Tour and was best young rider. He’s a guy who has all along shown GT contender potential, so actually being a GT contender once is unlikely to be a weird outlier.

The old order among GT contenders is breaking down as the dominant riders of the last period retire or decline. Quintana is the only multiple GT winner who still has much of his peak years to go. Of the guys with one GT only Dumoulin looks a certainty to win more. A lot of GTs over the next few years are going to be won by riders who currently have zero. It might be an open period where a few guys win one, or one or two or three might quickly establish dominance. There are big possibilities there for teams willing to take a punt on a rider who might be one of those guys. Sky have Bernal, Sunweb have Dumoulin, Movistar have Quintana and Landa, Astana have Lopez, after this Giro, some team is going to bet big on Yates. There really aren’t many options if a team wants to be a GC player over the next say four or five years.

 

[Salvarani]

Yates burned out in the last week? After effects showing from the effort he put in to Sappada and the ITT?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

It had to run out somewhere. In the TT he also lost most time in the last kilometers. It could be just a bad day, but I think he is running on an empty tank

 

[laughingcavalier]

There was always a likelihood that Yates would lose time to Tom on this stage. A 40 minute effort on a climb that rises at a consistent 7% suits Tom D. The really worrying thing for Yates is that he lost time to 4 of the favourites, that he couldn't stay with the group when the attacks went. With two such hard stages to come his position looks really shaky.

 

[Climbing]

I think he’ll hold it, mostly because Froome will pay a bit like last time and Dumo will suffer the multi climbing.
I would be very careful about Pozzovivo, which seems the one with the best legs…

 

[Strawberry_Jams]

I've never been this worried before a stage.

Contador lost over 2 mins on this stage without teammates and he didn't even have to do the Jaff. Hopefully MS have been clever with their team and they were all resting up yesterday. I think they probably thought Nieve was enough with only one climb.

 

[RedheadDane]

Looks like you were right to be worried.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yep, he got the 3 stages and the Maglia Rosa for 2 weeks. Success

 

[RedheadDane]

I suppose so... but imagine being this close, having looked the strongest for two weeks, only to crack when you could virtually see the finish.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I suppose so... but imagine being this close, having looked the strongest for two weeks, only to crack when you could virtually see the finish.

But thats why is vital to strike when you still can and get something out of the race. That was why I made the comparison to Kruijswijk in 2016 (altho Steven K really couldn't win a stage beforehand)

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

I suppose so... but imagine being this close, having looked the strongest for two weeks, only to crack when you could virtually see the finish.

But thats why is vital to strike when you still can and get something out of the race. That was why I made the comparison to Kruijswijk in 2016 (altho Steven K really couldn't win a stage beforehand)

I guess cycling is a cruel sport.



(And I'm overly emotional today...)

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re:

It had to run out somewhere. In the TT he also lost most time in the last kilometers. It could be just a bad day, but I think he is running on an empty tank

Empty tank it is

 

[DNP-Old]

Nah, it's Chaves' fault.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Nah, it's Chaves' fault.

Lol, stop it

 

[SlickMongoose]

Chapeau Simon. What a brilliant, gutsy Giro.

 

[del1962]

Gutted for him, will be out of top ten

 

[PremierAndrew]

Three stage wins and shown he definitely has potential to win a Grand Tour. It's been an excellent Giro either way for Simon

 

[Bardamu]

Re:

Three stage wins and shown he definitely has potential to win a Grand Tour. It's been an excellent Giro either way for Simon

Although you're right, I do believe that chances like this will not come often. Maybe being a top 5 rider is his max potential.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

Three stage wins and shown he definitely has potential to win a Grand Tour. It's been an excellent Giro either way for Simon

Although you're right, I do believe that chances like this will not come often. Maybe being a top 5 rider is his max potential.

He's 25 years old, if he was in his 30s I'd agree with you

 

[yaco]

This is a good opportunity for Simon to understand his body better and to continue to build up his endurance - Ride more conservatively at the Vuelta and a top 5 or a podium is a strong possibility - Fairly certain he will stay with the team.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Three stage wins and shown he definitely has potential to win a Grand Tour. It's been an excellent Giro either way for Simon

I am not sure. If there's no underlying reason apart from fatigue for his difficulties in the last 2 stages, he may not win one at all.

Ok, maybe an early 2010's Vuelta type route would be doable.

 

[yaco]

Forgot to add my concern pre-race was that both Yates and Chaves were doing a third consecutive GT after the 2017 TDF and Vuelta - This was dodgy planning, though at the same time, both riders chse the Giro as a target in 2018.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

This is a good opportunity for Simon to understand his body better and to continue to build up his endurance - Ride more conservatively at the Vuelta and a top 5 or a podium is a strong possibility - Fairly certain he will stay with the team.

Thats exactly what he shouldn't do. Ride more conservatively? Heck no, riding a bit more conservatively would have resulted and one stage win and he would have bonked massively today either way.

He peaked a bit too early and suddenly all lights just went off, bad recovery or something. But riding conservatively definitely isn't the answer with the characterics he has.