Bryneel about contador

[Race Radio]

He didn't know what conceited meant.

He was Armstrong's team mate. He knows what it means.

 

[peloton]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-his-future-will-be-decided-soon

"He refused to respond to Bruyneel's latest statements where he insinuated Contador had become conceited."

I think we can all agree who shows class and who does not. Clearly reasonable people will come to the same conclusion on this, yes?

Definitely, yes.

 

[progressor]

I think we can all agree who shows class and who does not. Clearly reasonable people will come to the same conclusion on this, yes?

I think we can all agree that any rational or honest person wouldn't make a statement like that. I know we'll all agree that any one who responds negatively to this post has serious cognitive problems, and should leave the board permanently to seek help.

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think we can all agree that any rational or honest person wouldn't make a statement like that. I know we'll all agree that any one who responds negatively to this post has serious cognitive problems, and should leave the board permanently to seek help.

I think we can all agree that we don't agree with this last post.

 

[progressor]

I think we can all agree that we don't agree with this last post.

I think we should all agree to stop prefacing contentious or derogatory statements with things like 'I think we can all agree'

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think we should all agree to stop prefacing contentious or derogatory statements with things like 'I think we can all agree'

I think we can all agree that you started it.

 

[progressor]

I think we can all agree that you started it.

I think you should re read the thread because that's clearly false.

 

[Anonymous]

Why do you love cancer so much?

This is funny everytime it is asked. We should all be able to agree on this, no?

 

[Hugh Januss]

I think you should re read the thread because that's clearly false.

One of your other personalities started it long before this thread.

 

[Anonymous]

I think we should all agree to stop prefacing contentious or derogatory statements with things like 'I think we can all agree'

Surely reasonable people can see that your proposition is an attempt to squash the free speech. I think we can all agree that is not consistent with rules of correspondence in a civilized society, yes?

 

[Anonymous]

One of your other personalities started it long before this thread.

Loooooooooooooong before...

 

[lagartija]

you guys are losing the plot.................

 

[progressor]

One of your other personalities started it long before this thread.

Is this more of the 'there is only one person who disagrees with me, but they have many diferent usernames' delusion ??

 

[ggusta]

What is now funny is to hear guys like RaceRalph, ggusta say the events at the Tour turned them against Lance. It was guys(not necessarily those 2) like them who were arguing that we were being cynical and talking rubbish back then, all because we hated Lance.

A little clarity on my path from Lance fan to Lance Loather.

When I heard he was coming back, I was at first annoyed with him despite still being a fan that he would come back to Astana. Why Astana???

You gotta understand I am no student of the sport anything like many of you. (Nor am I a student of any particular sport other than baseball and even that ceased when I was still a pre-teen). I tend to just take what I see at face value. I love (American) football, too, but don't gamble on it or involve myself in fantasy leagues. I just love watching it and keeping up with the major teams and rivalries.

Just like so many boxing champions who don't know when to leave, I figured Lance was just like them. A sadly deluded aging man who doesn't know what else to do with himself. I would have been much more supportive had he raced for a team other than on Contador's. Does someone as intelligent about race tactics as Lance really need JB? I still don't know what he needs him for.

So the point is that I was already curious as to how he would handle it. I realized that mind games could potentially occur, but nothing as extreme and sickening as what really happened. But I thought he was 'A Man' and wouldn't take it too far.

I still believed him to be honorable and decent through the spring, I DID hear him say some stuff like we will have to see who the best rider is on the team. In the back of my mind I figured he had to be in touch with reality enough to see from the past 2 years that he was no competition for Contador and if he was to be on Astana, the best role and most decent thing would be to support AC, not disrupt him.

BUT it DID start to dawn on me that he was apparently leaving open the possibility that he might be the #1 rider. I still did not want to accept what I was seeing in the spring as an overall strategy of his until the start of the tour and right from the start, I couldn't deny the obvious any longer. It was during the tour that I became aware of more comments he made after the comeback announcement and before the tour that I must have just pushed from my mind as out of context.

It strikes me now as something personal between himself and AC.

He certainly doesn't give off the same vibe of hatred towards Sastre, Pereiro, the Schlecks, or even Floyd. All Tdf winners or near winners.

He projects a truly visceral hatred towards AC alone and I think at the moment he sees AC as the person who could possibly eclipse his legacy. Winning GT's is one thing. Someone will always win. But for AC to put his stamp on cycling so soon after Lance is just a bitter pill for Lance.

Anyhow, you mentioned my 'name', I felt compelled to offer some clarity. If I paid closer attention, I would have probably come around earlier. I didn't know crud about Simoni or Simeoni or whatever nor the positives in 1999 until I started reading up after the tour. Funny thing is that Lance could be legendary without being such an a$$. It isn't like he is the only tdf winner who dopes. Lotsa company there.

Sorry for such a long post with that dreaded word "I" appearing way too much.

 

[racerralph]

Having missed out on all this stuff over the last few days, I just want to add a few observations.

As far back as March/April, a lot of us on here predicted that Bruyneel/Lance would try to screw AC at the Tour, just check some of the older threads. A lot of what Bruyneel has said in the interview is what we were predicting long before the Tour. Gonna claim the high ground on this one.

What is now funny is to hear guys like RaceRalph, ggusta say the events at the Tour turned them against Lance. It was guys(not necessarily those 2) like them who were arguing that we were being cynical and talking rubbish back then, all because we hated Lance.

Personally, I think Bruyneel gets way too much credit for his role in any Tour wins, Jose Echavarrai and Esubio Unzue were never lionised as great managers the way Bruyneel is and they have almost as many Tour wins. Thats mainly because they never took tried to take any of the limelight or done PR rubbish or anuthing else.

As for the above quote, bringing money into the sport, Tour of Ireland was cut from 5 to 3 days this years because of 'economic conditions' but the race director has admitted they paid a lot of money to have Lance. See the little problem here.

RTF McFadden says that Bruyneel were negotiating with RadioShack long before the Tour. Well in that case, can anyone blame AC for not having faith in a team of which most would be jumping ship to Lances team as soon as they could. He is also confirming that Lance came back into Astana, knowing he would be setting up his own team and fishing for riders from Astana. He didnt mention that in his comeback plans although he didnt mention he would like to have his own team.

Whatever, Bruyneel comes out of all this looking very childish like Lance at the Tour.

Hi there, just want to clear something up. If you had done just a touch of observing my available info you'd see I wasn't in this forum until June '09. But that's no big deal. Second, I don't use the term "Hater", ever. It's a lazy term, chock full of ignorance. But hey, that's no big deal either. However, when you say I (or guys like me) probably thought negatively about all of you prognosticators who knew treachery was just about to bust loose, you are very wrong. Fact is that paragraph, where you scoffed at me and ggusto wasn't even needed in that post, it was irrelevant to your point.
FYI, I was a LA follower earlier in the season, But I have been a Contador Fan since just before he was acquired by Discovery. His Victory in Paris-Nice '07, cinched the deal for me, forever. That race was some exciting bike racing. However, the moment Lance announced his return to racing and thus to Astana, home of Bruyneel, I knew there could be trouble brewing.
To me, the beginning was one of Lance's first tweets which lacked any discretion, when he put Contador down after his bonk in this years Paris-Nice. It could have been done quietly, man to man, but he chose to tell AC via the world wide twitter network.From there on I knew it was only a matter of time, and that the tale would unfold on the roads of France.
But I must admit, that he even outdid my expectations, in showing how low, how amateurish, how childish and classless he could/would go, in order to try and unnerve and ultimately defeat AC. That he and now Bruyneel (Lance is now giving it a bit of a break) can still maintain that venom(as JB has in his recent interviews) shows what arrogant demagogues these men truly are.
Hey, I don't give a good hoot what their Fanboys see in them, I tried to give Lance's announcements an objective look. But in the end, I'm not disappointed in him, I just feel sorry for him. Cause as big a celebrity as he has become, and as much of a money man he is. I get the feeling that he is a very lonely man inside his noisy head. But hey that's just my opinion. Bang me up for it, if you like, but you're not going to change my mind. Just as I don't think I'm going to change your mind, no matter how disgracefully they act, or how miserably they'll fail. Do you think that Lance really considers 3rd place a Victory? Think about it.
But hey,pmcg76, we're good, I agree with rest of your post, Since you used my name , I felt the need to explain my position.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ok, I'll attempt to get off the Troll Trolley and stop aiding in the distruction of another thread. Both of the previous posts articulate what I think any sane person would come up with after examining the information that is available here and in the 100's of links that have been provided. Anyone coming here with an open mind has to be swayed by the volume of evidence that exists. To not accept any of it as true requires an extreme level of "fandom" bordering on delusion.

 

[racerralph]

A little clarity on my path from Lance fan to Lance Loather.

When I heard he was coming back, I was at first annoyed with him despite still being a fan that he would come back to Astana. Why Astana???

You gotta understand I am no student of the sport anything like many of you. (Nor am I a student of any particular sport other than baseball and even that ceased when I was still a pre-teen). I tend to just take what I see at face value. I love (American) football, too, but don't gamble on it or involve myself in fantasy leagues. I just love watching it and keeping up with the major teams and rivalries.

Just like so many boxing champions who don't know when to leave, I figured Lance was just like them. A sadly deluded aging man who doesn't know what else to do with himself. I would have been much more supportive had he raced for a team other than on Contador's. Does someone as intelligent about race tactics as Lance really need JB? I still don't know what he needs him for.

So the point is that I was already curious as to how he would handle it. I realized that mind games could potentially occur, but nothing as extreme and sickening as what really happened. But I thought he was 'A Man' and wouldn't take it too far.

I still believed him to be honorable and decent through the spring, I DID hear him say some stuff like we will have to see who the best rider is on the team. In the back of my mind I figured he had to be in touch with reality enough to see from the past 2 years that he was no competition for Contador and if he was to be on Astana, the best role and most decent thing would be to support AC, not disrupt him.

BUT it DID start to dawn on me that he was apparently leaving open the possibility that he might be the #1 rider. I still did not want to accept what I was seeing in the spring as an overall strategy of his until the start of the tour and right from the start, I couldn't deny the obvious any longer. It was during the tour that I became aware of more comments he made after the comeback announcement and before the tour that I must have just pushed from my mind as out of context.

It strikes me now as something personal between himself and AC.

He certainly doesn't give off the same vibe of hatred towards Sastre, Pereiro, the Schlecks, or even Floyd. All Tdf winners or near winners.

He projects a truly visceral hatred towards AC alone and I think at the moment he sees AC as the person who could possibly eclipse his legacy. Winning GT's is one thing. Someone will always win. But for AC to put his stamp on cycling so soon after Lance is just a bitter pill for Lance.

Anyhow, you mentioned my 'name', I felt compelled to offer some clarity. If I paid closer attention, I would have probably come around earlier. I didn't know crud about Simoni or Simeoni or whatever nor the positives in 1999 until I started reading up after the tour. Funny thing is that Lance could be legendary without being such an a$$. It isn't like he is the only tdf winner who dopes. Lotsa company there.

Sorry for such a long post with that dreaded word "I" appearing way too much.

I hear ya! I feel the same, about many of your points. Well said, and I obviously understand your need to clarify yourself. Funny we both had a very similar reaction. Not mad at pmcg76, just wanted to clarify the evolution of my/our current stances.(I felt my post was overly long too and I'd like to apologize, myself.)

 

[Publicus]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-says-his-future-will-be-decided-soon

"He refused to respond to Bruyneel's latest statements where he insinuated Contador had become conceited."

I think we can all agree who shows class and who does not. Clearly reasonable people will come to the same conclusion on this, yes?

He apparently actually responded (this is from the press room at his website regarding him receiving the Ictus Award yesterday):

“They’re statements that I don’t take too seriously. The 2009 season is behind us. I’m thinking about 2010 and the Tour de France. That’s not something that matters.” he said

 

[Anonymous]

The English title is 'We might as well win'.

It reads like the story of a guy who (read a few cheap management books), won the lottery and thinks it was because of his skill to pick the winning numbers.
There is very little in there about the 2006 tour. What a shame. =/

I sense you dont like JB much, but can I just clarify exactly how did he win the lottery?

Are you saying winning GTs with LA, Savoldelli, Heras and Contador are all based on luck that these guys signed with his teams? Not to mention strong performances in Roubaix by Hincapie and GTs by Leipheimer...

Whether or not you like him, I think it's fair to say that JB earned his palmares as a director, and one year (2006) without a GT win is pretty good in an 11-12 year career driving the team car... Fair enough he probably doesn't get credit for the 2009 TDF but c'mon he hardly 'won the lottery' as a DS over the last decade

 

[luckyboy]

I sense you dont like JB much, but can I just clarify exactly how did he win the lottery?

Are you saying winning GTs with LA, Savoldelli, Heras and Contador are all based on luck that these guys signed with his teams? Not to mention strong performances in Roubaix by Hincapie and GTs by Leipheimer...

Whether or not you like him, I think it's fair to say that JB earned his palmares as a director, and one year (2006) without a GT win is pretty good in an 11-12 year career driving the team car... Fair enough he probably doesn't get credit for the 2009 TDF but c'mon he hardly 'won the lottery' as a DS over the last decade

Yeah, to be fair, we don't know whether Lance's wins were all down to Ferrari. JB obviously brought in certain other structures to the team. AC could've won the Tour 09 on his own, so that one for JB doesn't really count (seeing as he was on LA's half of the team anyway).

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, to be fair, we don't know whether Lance's wins were all down to Ferrari. JB obviously brought in certain other structures to the team. AC could've won the Tour 09 on his own, so that one for JB doesn't really count (seeing as he was on LA's half of the team anyway).

This is a valid point, but without resorting to the clinic, many suggest all performances in the top ten are enhanced by doctors, so in a sense, for LA to beat Ullrich, Basso, Beloki, Contador to beat Evans, Leipheimer, Schleck plus throw in Heras and Savoldelli winningg, I think that JBs management skills and race tactics DO play a big role in determining who wins a GT.

I ackowledged that he couldn't take credit for 2009 TDF, but I guess i was just trying to bring a bit of neutrality back to the thread by pointing out that the GT wins directed by JB cannot really be all classed as winning the lottery as the poster had suggested

 

[Polish]

2005

If I recall correctly, Bruyneel's Team finished a bit ahead of Saiz's
team in 2005. Vino in fifth, Contador in ?????....31st?

Tie-Breaker in 2010 - if Lance & Alberto both show up.

 

[gatete]

If I recall correctly, Bruyneel's Team finished a bit ahead of Saiz's
team in 2005. Vino in fifth, Contador in ?????....31st?

Tie-Breaker in 2010 - if Lance & Alberto both show up.

Actually, I see it as a very good thing for AC to finish at 31st, imagine 1rst Tour appearance at 22, to me it wouln't have looked good, only Ulrich was capable of doing it and yet....

 

[Mellow Velo]

Pmcg has nailed it.
Just as soon as Armstrong announced his return to "raise cancer awareness", a lot of us were saying: "No, this time, it's all about the bike."
We said he would only join Astana: He did.
We said he would change his "helpful" tune: He did.
We said Bruyneel and Armstrong were in cahoots: They were.
We said they would try and shaft Contador: They did.

Shows how the inappropriately dubbed "haters" know more about these men's motivations, than their fans.
Far easier to see, with blinkers off, when you are looking at the darker side of human nature.


Lest we forget. They tried to get Astana's licence removed from them, in May and June.
Would Bruyneel risk Armstrong's date with Tour destiny, to smear dirt?
Why bring up these revelations, just before the Tour, if they didn't have an endgame already in place? ( a new team waiting in the wings with Pat McQuaid ready to hand over the PT spot)

How come all the Spanish riders appeared to have been paid?

Logical conclusion is, they knew they couldn't beat Contador, so they tried to rub him out.
As predicted months earler.

 

[pmcg76]

Hi there, just want to clear something up. If you had done just a touch of observing my available info you'd see I wasn't in this forum until June '09. But that's no big deal. Second, I don't use the term "Hater", ever. It's a lazy term, chock full of ignorance. But hey, that's no big deal either. However, when you say I (or guys like me) probably thought negatively about all of you prognosticators who knew treachery was just about to bust loose, you are very wrong. Fact is that paragraph, where you scoffed at me and ggusto wasn't even needed in that post, it was irrelevant to your point.
FYI, I was a LA follower earlier in the season, But I have been a Contador Fan since just before he was acquired by Discovery. His Victory in Paris-Nice '07, cinched the deal for me, forever. That race was some exciting bike racing. However, the moment Lance announced his return to racing and thus to Astana, home of Bruyneel, I knew there could be trouble brewing.
To me, the beginning was one of Lance's first tweets which lacked any discretion, when he put Contador down after his bonk in this years Paris-Nice. It could have been done quietly, man to man, but he chose to tell AC via the world wide twitter network.From there on I knew it was only a matter of time, and that the tale would unfold on the roads of France.
But I must admit, that he even outdid my expectations, in showing how low, how amateurish, how childish and classless he could/would go, in order to try and unnerve and ultimately defeat AC. That he and now Bruyneel (Lance is now giving it a bit of a break) can still maintain that venom(as JB has in his recent interviews) shows what arrogant demagogues these men truly are.
Hey, I don't give a good hoot what their Fanboys see in them, I tried to give Lance's announcements an objective look. But in the end, I'm not disappointed in him, I just feel sorry for him. Cause as big a celebrity as he has become, and as much of a money man he is. I get the feeling that he is a very lonely man inside his noisy head. But hey that's just my opinion. Bang me up for it, if you like, but you're not going to change my mind. Just as I don't think I'm going to change your mind, no matter how disgracefully they act, or how miserably they'll fail. Do you think that Lance really considers 3rd place a Victory? Think about it.
But hey,pmcg76, we're good, I agree with rest of your post, Since you used my name , I felt the need to explain my position.

My apologies to both RaceRalph and ggusta. I addded the (not necessarily these 2) in my post because I knew neither of you were signed up back then so I didnt know what you thought.

Following on from your earlier posts in which you both stated had supported Lance before the Tour, there very, very few or no Lance fans who agreed with our prognosis on what would happen which is why I was making the 'similarity' comparison. I am sure you guys have noticed that a lot of Lance defenders are so myopic, they choose to suspend or twist reality to defend their man.

I guess I was trying to make the point that if former Lance supporters can come to the same conclusion after the Tour as to what we had predicted long before, then surely we are not just blind with hatred as we are painted by Lance defenders.

I think both of you are intelligent posters who actually can see through the BS and can form your own opinions based on the evidence.