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BURN IT DOWN! Is the end of pro cycling near?

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May 29, 2010
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I personally view it as meaning let's have the "truth" out no matter who goes down and what the cost so that something more honest *MAY* replace it. I don't see it happening voluntarily but I suspect circumstances are now beyond anyone's control, in so many ways.
 

Dr. Maserati

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ilillillli said:
OK, but that just sort of passes the buck. I read that piece and I'm not sure it offers any more of an explanation of what "burning it [Babylon in this case] down" actually entails. I'm just saying, before people advocate something, it should probably be a little bit more robust of an idea than "burn it down," "cut off it's head," or "kill the beast". Because those are slogans, not plans.
Goddamit we just want to burn something......
alj039.jpg



I agree with your sentiments - in fact I had never heard of the "burn it down' slogan used in Cycling until that Blog.

My preferred saying is that there needs to be change from the top down - the riders are just pawns in the game.
 
ilillillli said:
OK, but that just sort of passes the buck. I read that piece and I'm not sure it offers any more of an explanation of what "burning it [Babylon in this case] down" actually entails. I'm just saying, before people advocate something, it should probably be a little bit more robust of an idea than "burn it down," "cut off it's head," or "kill the beast". Because those are slogans, not plans.

agree.

an angry mob chanting "burn it down" makes me uncomfortable. planning sounds alot better. i'll leave it at that.

as for myerson...
dr m links the two just as i was doing in my mind. myerson's blog is something of a knee-jerk reaction to the landis admission and i felt his language was, in many different ways, figurative. i mostly agreed with what myerson had written and was more than willing to accept it as a rant, albeit an artistic one. even now i'm not sure how literally we should take it. i felt he was really just trying to capture and preserve his feelings about the news that day in writing and it wasn't something that we should pick apart let alone begin to use as a slogan. my guess is that he didn't intend to create a "movement".

it should be noted that myerson seems like a very wise old pro, i believe he's still racing well into his 30's. i think his blog post communicates frustration and a perspective only gained from many years of experience.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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So we're talking reform vs. total destruction?


This is exactly what keeps us stuck where we are in the first place! One extreme to another. The corrupt reformers vs. the corrupt flame throwing revolutionaries.

The arrogance of Man. Thinking we are G--O-D. Masters of the Universe . . . . or whatever you want to call the forces in charge of this world as we know it.

Our poor attempts to do so could fill every library with a written accord of man's failings.

If this is too deep . . . . look up . Cycling is just a mirror of our world. It and it's athletes and support system are special , but no more special than any other athletes, sports , activities . . . or the persons making them go.

Floyd is like you and me ..... like everyone. He's fed up. Frightened. Alone. Not knowing what the F to do. He didn't know what else to do, so he chose to let loose the only way he knew how. Is/was there a better way? I don't know ..... but it's Man's way. Like it or not ..... this is what we have for now.

The only true freedom I know of is detachment. . . . and this is a whole lot easier said than done.:confused:
 
Jul 29, 2009
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Ok so we "burn it down"

What is the current system replaced by? Who decides and how do you ensure that everyone involved is of unimpeachable moral standard?

I don't think it's as corrupt as it could be or in fact has been in the past to be honest. I don't tend to subscribe to conspiracy theories as they generally require a level of intelligence and organisation way beyond the limits of most authorities. I think they give them far too much credit. Incompetence is a different issue.

Why does professional cycling exist? Was it founded on some noble ideal?

No, it was a way of promoting something, for the riders to earn money and for those things to happen you need spectators so it must also provide entertainment..

The idea that the competitors should be clean and everything should be done according to some strict moral code is relatively new.

The rules and customs are in many ways arbitary and have changed over the years.

The battle between those that try to push the boundaries of what you can get away with and authorities trying to keep some semblence of order is as old as sport itself.

If cycling is to try and evolve so that doping is no longer seen as an acceptable practice for those involved I think they care going to need to do something like the Truth Commissions in S.A. and get some current doping pros to come forward as well as stars of the past

Busting Lance, Alberto, Valverde etc will just result in loss of sponsorship, viewers and leave the door open for the next person willing to try their luck.

This post is now way too long sorry.
 

Dr. Maserati

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SirLes said:
Ok so we "burn it down"

What is the current system replaced by? Who decides and how do you ensure that everyone involved is of unimpeachable moral standard?

I don't think it's as corrupt as it could be or in fact has been in the past to be honest. I don't tend to subscribe to conspiracy theories as they generally require a level of intelligence and organisation way beyond the limits of most authorities. I think they give them far too much credit. Incompetence is a different issue.

Why does professional cycling exist? Was it founded on some noble ideal?

No, it was a way of promoting something, for the riders to earn money and for those things to happen you need spectators so it must also provide entertainment..

The idea that the competitors should be clean and everything should be done according to some strict moral code is relatively new.

The rules and customs are in many ways arbitary and have changed over the years.

The battle between those that try to push the boundaries of what you can get away with and authorities trying to keep some semblence of order is as old as sport itself.

If cycling is to try and evolve so that doping is no longer seen as an acceptable practice for those involved I think they care going to need to do something like the Truth Commissions in S.A. and get some current doping pros to come forward as well as stars of the past

Busting Lance, Alberto, Valverde etc will just result in loss of sponsorship, viewers and leave the door open for the next person willing to try their luck.

This post is now way too long sorry.

Firstly - waaay too much has been read in to the "burn it down" remark. It is the cry of frustration, not a practical solution as both 'illiilli's' & 'LeanMean&Greens' excellent posts pointed out on this page.

But just to show the complete opposite to 'clean' cycling....

You raised a good point..."Why does professional cycling exist? Was it founded on some noble ideal?"

Herein is modern Cycling (& indeed sports) problem.

It is sold & marketed as 'clean' .... its why the €13million Biological Passport is brought out, to show cycling is clean.

'Morals' or lackof - have little to do with it. Rightly or wrongly people associate sport with 'clean living' and those who profit do there utmost to tap in to that myth.

Would people care (&sponsors support) Pro Cycling if it decided there was no limits to PED's. Would people shout for a rider knowing that it has little to do with their athletic potential but more to do with their willingness to try new products. The riders would merely be willing machines to the doping doctors and pharmaceutical corporations....
 
Jul 29, 2009
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I agree from a marketing perspective "clean" cycling is much more sellable.

Of course that doesn't mean actually clean, as long as it appears clean.

But you also have the other reason: People like to see the "impossible" done. The wow factor.

Early cycling was all about pushing the boundaries of what was humanly possible and of course it is no surprise that right from the start people tried almost anything to help push their bodies beyond natural limits.

We as "consumers" have been fed a diet of constant improvement and I'm sure there has been an element of willful naivety in allowing ourself to be persuaded that what we are seeing is "real".

Looking at footage of many sports from 20 plus years and and it looks slow and unathletic.

Can we be re-educated to appreciate competition at a lower but more natural physical level?
 
SirLes said:
We as "consumers" have been fed a diet of constant improvement and I'm sure there has been an element of willful naivety in allowing ourself to be persuaded that what we are seeing is "real".

IOW, "consumers" live in fantasy world of their own making. At the very least, it provides endless entertainment for those laboring in the real world. The hissy fits thrown by those who can't understand why their fantasy world doesn't square with reality are priceless. Fortunately for the "consumers" the ignore button functions as a suitable phaser to keep their fantasy world a safe and friendly place to create such comedic gold.
 
A

Anonymous

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SpeedWay said:
IOW, "consumers" live in fantasy world of their own making. At the very least, it provides endless entertainment for those laboring in the real world. The hissy fits thrown by those who can't understand why their fantasy world doesn't square with reality are priceless. Fortunately for the "consumers" the ignore button functions as a suitable phaser to keep their fantasy world a safe and friendly place to create such comedic gold.

It is obvious that you are quite intelligent despite the fact that most of your posts only reveal your disdain for people who despise Mr Armstrong. Because of your intelligence, I would like to hear you opinion on whether or not those who believe Mr Armstrong only used hard work spinning are in this fantasy world of which you speak? I am not being snide here. I really would like to hear your honest opinion of the world which Mr Landis has described, and the credibility you give to his accounts.
 

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