Busche to the Shack!

Mar 10, 2009
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So I got to ride with Matt Busche a little bit. He was on IS Corp as an amateur, which is based here in Madison, WI. His team basically rode support for him, as he is a phenomenal athlete.

In the state RR championship, which were 6.5mi long loops in a 65mi race, he nearly lapped the 1/2 field on a solo break. He flat out dropped KBS, Bissel, etc pros during the Tour of America's Dairyland Blue Mounds RR (the proposed Olympic RR course). Beyond fast.

He got serious in 2008, for sure, while he was in Iowa. He would go out and do back-to-back 6hr days on Sat/Sun, and then another multiple 4+ hr threshold days during the week while working for his dad. His "base" rides were basically where you drafted while at your own threshold.

He signed to KBS for 3 months before signing to Radio Shack, right after the USAC RR championships.

Radio Shack is not LiveStrong. LiveStrong is the Lance U23 team, and a feeder team for RS.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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And actually, for awhile, he didn't want to go pro because he was planning on getting married. I thought I heard from his teammates that he didn't want to travel the country. I guess he changed his mind.
 

flicker

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Aug 17, 2009
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The Water Boy

Sounds to me like Johann has found the next Merckx/LeMond/Armstrong.
Kid is just playing now wait till he touches potential.
Could be the new Cannibal.
 
I wonder how much the Shack plans on using him in Europe for this year. With an American sponsor, I assume that they will need to compete in more American races than they had in recent years. They could use him for races in the states like Philly, Cascade, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if he only does smaller races in Europe as he is still working on gaining experience. That being said, I think that he could easily gain some good experience this week even with limited European races and use that to become a better rider for 2011.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I hope JB throws him straight in the deep end with the Giro or Vuelta.

24 is not young, I wanna see people win a GT on debut again
 
Highlander said:
I wonder how much the Shack plans on using him in Europe for this year. With an American sponsor, I assume that they will need to compete in more American races than they had in recent years. They could use him for races in the states like Philly, Cascade, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if he only does smaller races in Europe as he is still working on gaining experience. That being said, I think that he could easily gain some good experience this week even with limited European races and use that to become a better rider for 2011.
If RadioShack are a ProTour team, the only US races they will be able to compete in are California, Philly, Missouri, US Nationals & Georgia if it happens and the Canadian races. Unless of course, rules are bent again for them to compete in NRC races like Cascade, Gila etc.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Chilcott and BMC were trying to get a working solution on that. Even with the allowance, I doubt Shack would be riding any race smaller than Missouri 'cept Philly. Wont be like USPS circa 2002 when they rode Redlands et al.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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blackcat said:
Chilcott and BMC were trying to get a working solution on that. Even with the allowance, I doubt Shack would be riding any race smaller than Missouri 'cept Philly. Wont be like USPS circa 2002 when they rode Redlands et al.
USPS circa 2002 was pretty much a split with USPS. They had a USPS domestic team and USPS european team, with very little crossover.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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pmcg76 said:
If RadioShack are a ProTour team, the only US races they will be able to compete in are California, Philly, Missouri, US Nationals & Georgia if it happens and the Canadian races. Unless of course, rules are bent again for them to compete in NRC races like Cascade, Gila etc.
That was my question the first time around...good point about LiveStrong being U23, but I'm not sure if that's a regulation or a "theme"... For example, could he ride with them and just get his feet wet in Europe.

Would be cool to see him pull a Cunego at the Giro though! :D
 
A

Anonymous

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flicker said:
Sounds to me like Johann has found the next Merckx/LeMond/Armstrong.
Kid is just playing now wait till he touches potential.
Could be the new Cannibal.
You really are THAT clueless, aren't you? No wait, you aren't. You are just another troll.
 
Oct 6, 2009
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I am totally interested to see how well he performs. His CC background gives him a strong endurance baseline and the ability to endure suffering. Evidently, both have helped him cross over to cycling quickly. I wish him well.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Strategic Genius

flicker said:
Sounds to me like Johann has found the next Merckx/LeMond/Armstrong.
Kid is just playing now wait till he touches potential.
Could be the new Cannibal.
Johan hired Lance and Alberto before THEY won any GT's.

You just don't know when Johan will discover the
next GT winning dude...but you know he will:)
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Johan hired Lance and Alberto before THEY won any GT's.

You just don't know when Johan will discover the
next GT winning dude...but you know he will:)
Lance hired Johann. Every DS in the sport wanted Contador.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Every DS in the sport wanted Contador.
Every DS wanted Contador?

Can you name 5 or 6 DS's who Johan had to beat out to get Alberto?
I do not remember any bidding war at all...

I seem to remember Albertor sitting for months without a contract
due to....
1) so-so results up till then
2) serious medical issues.
3) Implicated in Puerto

BTW, Alberto also followed Johan from Disco to Astana.

BTW again, and going OT sorry, I wonder if the anti-convulsion drugs the AFLD picked out
of the trash and sensationalized were Alberto's very legal and required meds?
 
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Anonymous

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Polish said:
Every DS wanted Contador?

Can you name 5 or 6 DS's who Johan had to beat out to get Alberto?
I do not remember any bidding war at all...

I seem to remember Albertor sitting for months without a contract
due to....
1) so-so results up till then
2) serious medical issues.
3) Implicated in Puerto

BTW, Alberto also followed Johan from Disco to Astana.

BTW again, and going OT sorry, I wonder if the anti-convulsion drugs the AFLD picked out
of the trash and sensationalized were Alberto's very legal and required meds?
Yea, The Hog was the perfect fit for him. Too bad he dared challenge the man who has his hand up Buryneel's a$$ working the mouth.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Polish said:
Every DS wanted Contador?

Can you name 5 or 6 DS's who Johan had to beat out to get Alberto?
I do not remember any bidding war at all...

I seem to remember Albertor sitting for months without a contract
due to....
1) so-so results up till then
2) serious medical issues.
3) Implicated in Puerto

BTW, Alberto also followed Johan from Disco to Astana.

BTW again, and going OT sorry, I wonder if the anti-convulsion drugs the AFLD picked out
of the trash and sensationalized were Alberto's very legal and required meds?
Yes. Contador has been a huge talent since he was 16. The delay in getting signed was based more on the confusion around what the UCI was going to do with LS/Astana. Once he was free he signed 10 days later.
 
Jul 27, 2009
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Good lord another hijacked thread. The obsession has more steam than ever. Can't even let Busche have his own thread. LOL. :(
 
Oct 29, 2009
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flicker said:
Sounds to me like Johann has found the next Merckx/LeMond/Armstrong.
Kid is just playing now wait till he touches potential.
Could be the new Cannibal.
Can't wait to see him "cannibalize" (2 years ago)
Milan - San Remo

...last year...
World Pro Road Race
Milan - San Remo
Flèche Wallone
Ghent - Wevelgem
2 stages, Giro d'Italia
Critérium des As

...this year...
Giro d'Italia
KoM, Giro d'Italia
Points Competition, Giro d'Italia
4 stages, Giro d'Italia
Tour of Catalonia
Tour of Romandy
Paris - Roubaix
Tre Valli Varesine

...and on the programme for next year
Tour de France
KoM, Tour de France
Points Competition, Tour de France
5 stages, Tour de France
Paris - Luxembourg
Milan - San Remo
Tour of Flanders
Liège - Bastogne - Liège
Paris - Nice
4 stages, Giro d'Italia

That's just the wins... and I probably missed some.

Thankfully the hype say less about the guy in question as the poster who is making the ridiculous comparison. Europe might be a reality check for the Busche (one he might pass with flying colours), but the people making these sort of blind claims could do themselves a huge favour by making a reality check with, well, reality.

You might want to have a quick look at what most great and promising riders had already accomplished at age 24. Come back to me when he is actually competing with the best, and making his marks, with the best, for the last 2 years or so, rather than still be "promising" to become good when he grows up.

Thanks for the laugh.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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jpmcmahonjr said:
Good lord another hijacked thread. The obsession has more steam than ever. Can't even let Busche have his own thread. LOL. :(
Seriously. Apparently the fanboy groupies have to turn every thread into a discussion about their homoerotic man-crush on a certain rider. Sad.

Anyway, this kid clearly has a motor but I would say flip a coin on how he'll do in Europe. He'll have a number of years yet in which he'll improve plenty due to not riding much until around age 20 or so.

That being said, I looked at his results and they are not the results of a world-beater though they are of course quite good.

Anyone ride against him in the 3's on his way up? Would be interesting to know if he was completely riding away from all of the amateurs or not.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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Francois the Postman said:
You might want to have a quick look at what most great and promising riders had already accomplished at age 24. Come back to me when he is actually competing with the best, and making his marks, with the best, for the last 2 years or so, rather than still be "promising" to become good when he grows up.
.

Francois, it IS possible that a rider could be stronger than Eddy and have nowhere near the results of Eddy - due to different circumstances like not starting to ride a bike until you are 23 or something. So it IS possible Busche is stronger than Eddy. Although extremely extremely unlikely. About the same odds that monkeys will fly out of flickers **** i would say.

It is also VERY likely there HAVE already been stronger riders than Eddy,
but they never competed. Ended up working in a coal mine or something.

anyway, back to Busche...

http://www.velonews.com/article/100082
"'OK, this is not normal'
Busche (his name is pronounced boo-SHAY) grew up in the Milwaukee suburb of Wauwatosa, and was a runner in high school and for his first two years at Luther College, in Decorah, Iowa. At the Div. III Luther, he was a conference champion and All-American in cross-country and the 10,000-meter. He also was ranked in the top-ten nationally in the 3,000-meter steeplechase."
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Polish said:
Francois, it IS possible that a rider could be stronger than Eddy and have nowhere near the results of Eddy - due to different circumstances like not starting to ride a bike until you are 23 or something. So it IS possible Busche is stronger than Eddy. Although extremely extremely unlikely. About the same odds that monkeys will fly out of flickers **** i would say.

It is also VERY likely there HAVE already been stronger riders than Eddy,
but they never competed. Ended up working in a coal mine or something.
What's your point? You think I don't know that Eddy quite possibly wasn't the most perfect human athlete this planet ever produced?

I don't discount that for one minute. I also don't care. Especially not if you are bringing in people who never raced. Who knows, maybe there were Martians who dominated the Tour de Intergalactique for years, until it was moved to Uranus? So what?

I can also think of several more riders that you could call "greatest rider" from their particular era, as each era brought its own yard sticks. Names I'd personally would still propose long before Lance (only TdF focus), and I rate Lance quite highly. Anquetil, Bartali, Coppi anyone? The older ones were possibly even greater than Eddy Merckx in some aspects.

It's probably a cultural thing, and possibly a generational. I like it when people finger someone with potential as "probably quite good - worth a view". Rather than "possibly the bestus evar".

Before launching someone as "could be the next...", it would be nice if people could mention some very good and gifted riders, rather than project them immediately amongst the exceptionally and legendary gifted who reigned supreme. I'd take them far more serious, both the poster AND the rider.

I'm fed up with people calling the totally unproven, let alone competitively tested in races that give a much clearer indication about genuine "cannibal" potential, immediately the next Beatles, when their entire track record shows only that they have picked up a guitar and have a natural ability to strum, and play a starring role. In the local choir. And with all due respect, if the track records is based on competing on the US circuit alone, it'd be even more careful before setting 'em up as someone who is likely potentially capable to dominate the field on the highest stages for a decade or so.

There is a long road between being good, very good, and be "Cannibal-Lance-Indurain (et al) material".

Much as I like to hear about promising riders, let the guy ride a few races in a region that will give you a real clue on how he squares up with his compadres. He sounds decent. But so does Andy Schleck. Gesink. EBH. You name 'em. People who are already riding along with the big boys, and names that will be with us for years to come. Some who are already outperforming Big Boys. And most of them still aren't called "the next Merckx" here, just "probably gonna be quite good riders in the future".

But Schleck et al are the benchmarks he will have to better, for over a decade or so. In classics and GTs. Right now he still has to prove he has the ability to win anything in the top league, let alone dominate a/his generation.

I quite like it when people get very excited about an upcoming rider. I hate it when it's (still) so OTT that I actually start to dislike the rider for the fan boys he creates. It's not the rider's fault when fan boys show that planet earth is long left behind. But I already care lot less about EBH than I maybe should, and some posters on these type of forums are responsible that.

Someone said it. 24 is not young. 24 simply means that the peak should still be ahead of you. But those who end up dominating a generation are usually beating (most) of the top at age 23, 24. Not hoping to do that in a few years time. I get the guy is making rapid ripples in the US and has potentially more ground to improve over than others who have been taking racing seriously for much longer at that age. But he didn't win SR 2 years ago (or the Amateur World Championships before that at an even younger age, etc). Nor will he win a few classics and all 3 (4) jerseys in the Tour next year. And that's what he is compared with. That level. Right away. It is beyond silly, it's ignorant and arrogant.

I do believe it is harder these days to dominate a generation the way our legends did, Merckx and all. Which makes the task of becoming "a legend like them" an even trickier road.

Oh, and Contador is 2 years older and also not at in his prime yet. Any ETA on when he will be kicked into permanent submission by an all-out dominating Busche? Uphill?

Heck, I'm still not convinced that Contador will be as domineering for as long a period as the other greats did. Call me a sceptic, but I will wait for more impressive indicators before I will place Busche in the very small conga line of people who I think have a genuine shot at becoming that legendary.
 

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