Bye, bye Alejandro

Mar 14, 2009
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i prefer say see you soon. Alejandro´s procedure has been a shame. CONI.(olympic italian comite) has not right to enjudge Valverde. Also is has foole¡d some document. Spanish Jurisdiction is going to apeal fail because is unfair that an olympic foreing institucion banned Alejandro. THis is a BASSO ISUE. ALEJANDRO IS INOCET-
 
Apr 9, 2009
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lostintime said:
What happened to everyone else on the OP list?

Not much.

The whole system is corrupt.
Exactly. I saw this coming and am not surprised, but it's BS that a few riders get singled out from that list and others get away scott-free. But that's why people still dope, because many can still escape the consequences.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Dudes,
Whether this is a Basso related incident is irrelevant. This is rather simple. If an athlete dopes, or has the intention to dope, the athlete needs to be judged. If you are serious about fighting doping, who pursues the athlete is irrelevant as long as they are catching the dopers.
If Valverde's blood is part of the blood found on Fuentes possession, and he had the "intention to dope", he should be suspended.
The issue is that the Spaniards were unable to deliver and sat on their behinds.
 
BikeCentric said:
Exactly. I saw this coming and am not surprised, but it's BS that a few riders get singled out from that list and others get away scott-free. But that's why people still dope, because many can still escape the consequences.
Well, there is still things like due process. You can suspect alot and have good reason to suspect it but the step from suspecting something and actually having the evidence to base a conviction on is a step that is not to be taken lightly. That is the main problem with OP. If they had DNA evidence securely tied to OP from every rider they suspected and could test that against each rider than it would look alot diffrent but unfortunately that evidence only exists in a few of the cases.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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The bigger names get singled out.
Some can stretch it for 2 years, some go racing cars, some become holier than the pope, most end up working for a a guy who makes pants.

It's all just a subplot in the grand soap-opera of professional cycling.
Entertaining you since even before Garin took the train.
 
This should have happened THREE YEARS AGO. Why now? Many of the OP riders have now retired, but there are many more left, and many dots to connect with DNA. But for some time Valverde has been singled out. Not just by CONI, but by the UCI.

As far as doping suspensions and intending to dope: Basso "intended to dope" and got less than 2 years from CONI. Diluca basically intended to dope (oil for drugs) and got about four months in the off season, missing basically two races. Petacchi DID dope and got six months from CONI. Why, after all this time, does Valverde, who God only knows when he had his blood drawn or what his intentions were, is given the maximum sentence by CONI is very telling.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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It is irather interesting that it took this long for him to be dragged back in and brought down this time. His name was always associated with some of the blood bags.

Although I hoped that he was clean (and that the sport in general can be cleaned up) - this had to happen at some point.

And I bet he will NOT be the last one to get caught - even way after the fact
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
This should have happened THREE YEARS AGO. Why now? Many of the OP riders have now retired, but there are many more left, and many dots to connect with DNA. But for some time Valverde has been singled out. Not just by CONI, but by the UCI.

As far as doping suspensions and intending to dope: Basso "intended to dope" and got less than 2 years from CONI. Diluca basically intended to dope (oil for drugs) and got about four months in the off season, missing basically two races. Petacchi DID dope and got six months from CONI. Why, after all this time, does Valverde, who God only knows when he had his blood drawn or what his intentions were, is given the maximum sentence by CONI is very telling.
There is a political game between the Italian and Spanish authorities going on here...Valverde has vehemently attached CONI in a situation in which for 3 years a Spanish judge has not allowed anything to come to light about a homeland doping scandal. At the same time CONI sidelined Italy's greatest cyclist for 2 seasons involved in that Spanish doping scandal sacrificing Italian glory at the Tour (from what I gather, Basso's suspension was 2 years but a couple of months were knocked off due to a starting point technicality - in other words he wasn't treated lightly, also because he never collaborated, nor admitted to doping). In any case, that Basso had never openly admitted to blood doping, seems to me to have been in order to protect his Giro victory. He was probably advised by his lawyer to confess that the sack was his, but not that he ever used it and that he had just intended to at the Tour. Since whether he doped or just intended to would not change the suspension, though he would get to keep his Giro victory, seems to me behind Basso's denial. In other words, he gained nothing by confessing but risked losing the Giro. And given that so many cyclists were involved with OP, but due to a Spanish judge we'll never know their names and that Basso took the fall for many, I'm also sure Basso therefore feels his conscious is clean in not telling the whole truth. The other cases you mention, DiLuca, Petacchi, etc. were not connected to OP, and so Valverde's treatment by CONI, in my opinion, is not being measured against these but only Basso's (and Scarponi's too I suppose).

And frankly the Valverde defender on this topic seems to be totally biased by his love for the rider. Acusations that CONI has overstepped it's boundries and that it has even faked a document are completely rediculous. In the first case, CONI has every right to investigate a rider on home soil as with Valverde and the Tour when it entered Italy last year. CONI was simply fortunate to have worked with a Spanish judge who was willing to concede the Valve-Piti Puerto sack. From there it was a simple DNA test with the blood it had every right to analyze from the Tour last year. Italy can sanction any rider it has found to have doped on home soil.

CONI had a dept to settle with a top Spanish rider, given the way OP was handled in Spain and given that Italy's best stage racer lost an oportunity to win the Tour, whereas the last 3 Tour winners were Spanish. And remember many believe there is also a code name blood sack from OP that belongs to Alberto Contador as well. But it has become Valverde that has taken the full brunt of CONI's vendeta (which is what it is in my opinion). That the Tour enters Italy again this year seems to be another strong indication that there was something political behind CONI's intentions to punish the Spanish rider. Because if the UCI doesn't support CONI's decision and Valverde is only prevented from riding in Italy, then, without the Tour being involved, the spaniard only has to be sacrificed form Italian races which wouldn't have mattered much to him. That the Tour is sacrificed, however, makes the sting much, much more painful.

In the end, though, apart from the political intrigues, I find it stupid to believe that CONI has tampered evidence. CONI may not have always been consistent in dealing with the different cases. But it is not a criminal organization and to say that it is is just stupid.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
But it has become Valverde that has taken the full brunt of CONI's vendeta (which is what it is in my opinion). That the Tour enters Italy again this year seems to be another strong indication that there was something political behind CONI's intentions to punish the Spanish rider. Because if the UCI doesn't support CONI's decision and Valverde is only prevented from riding in Italy, then, without the Tour being involved, the spaniard only has to be sacrificed form Italian races which wouldn't have mattered much to him. That the Tour is sacrificed, however, makes the sting much, much more painful.
Again, I don't think that the Valverde/CONI case and Tour entering Italy have anything in common. The most I can think about, but not really believing in, is a pact between Tour and Giro to pay visit to each other's country (and therefore let two countries' police forces raid and take samples in each tour).
The CONI case is not over and both WADA and UCI have been clear in their stance. After reviewing the case, they'll make it a worldwide ban. So your point will become moot.

In the end, though, apart from the political intrigues, I find it stupid to believe that CONI has tampered evidence. CONI may not have always been consistent in dealing with the different cases. But it is not a criminal organization and to say that it is is just stupid.
Sometimes we agree too!
 
Mar 13, 2009
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As usual, too little, too late. He'll go through the normal process of appealing through CAS even though he hasn't got a leg to stand on. Someone appealing on a 'territorial jurisdiction' technicality obviously knows the game is up. Thing that ****es me off are his continuous and unrepentant denials and the obvious protectionism of the Spanish authorities.

Ironic that the stage 4 giro was tailor made for him too. Arriverdeci Alejandro.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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From cyclingnews:
Newly-elected Spanish Olympic Committee (COE) President Alejandro Blanco has denied any involvement in the suspension imposed upon Alejandro Valverde and insists the rider is innocent.

Blanco made the comments at an event organised by news agency Europapress, The Sports Breakfast, saying the two-year sanction is very damaging. "While [there is] no evidence to the contrary, we must always defend the athlete," he said.

"I am a very hard on the issue of doping, but it must be proved that the athlete has doped, and Alejandro was not involved in Operaciòn Puerto," added Blanco. "To me, Valverde is clean, and is an athlete like any other; I admire him for his achievements and how he has lived the sport."

Blanco stressed that the matter is "complicated" and that the COE has "little room to manoeuvre". "I don't understand how the Olympic committee of another country [can rule] on specific subjects such as this when we are engaged in a process like the one we have here in Spain," he said. "We've already spoken to the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) in the relationship we have as great friends, and it's a complicated matter."

Blanco indicated that the COE does not know what may happen with Valverde's participation in this year's Tour de France, given that a stage runs through Italy.

"Our ability is to talk to other Olympic committees when there is a problem and try to prove that nothing has happened and how we can arrange things differently," said Blanco. "The problem is that this subject has become judicial and since it has left the realm of sports justice, we cannot do anything."

So, the Spanyards are at it again:rolleyes:
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rhubroma said:
There is a political game between the Italian and Spanish authorities going on here...Valverde has vehemently attached CONI in a situation in which for 3 years a Spanish judge has not allowed anything to come to light about a homeland doping scandal. At the same time CONI sidelined Italy's greatest cyclist for 2 seasons involved in that Spanish doping scandal sacrificing Italian glory at the Tour (from what I gather, Basso's suspension was 2 years but a couple of months were knocked off due to a starting point technicality - in other words he wasn't treated lightly, also because he never collaborated, nor admitted to doping). In any case, that Basso had never openly admitted to blood doping, seems to me to have been in order to protect his Giro victory. He was probably advised by his lawyer to confess that the sack was his, but not that he ever used it and that he had just intended to at the Tour. Since whether he doped or just intended to would not change the suspension, though he would get to keep his Giro victory, seems to me behind Basso's denial. In other words, he gained nothing by confessing but risked losing the Giro. And given that so many cyclists were involved with OP, but due to a Spanish judge we'll never know their names and that Basso took the fall for many, I'm also sure Basso therefore feels his conscious is clean in not telling the whole truth. The other cases you mention, DiLuca, Petacchi, etc. were not connected to OP, and so Valverde's treatment by CONI, in my opinion, is not being measured against these but only Basso's (and Scarponi's too I suppose).

And frankly the Valverde defender on this topic seems to be totally biased by his love for the rider. Acusations that CONI has overstepped it's boundries and that it has even faked a document are completely rediculous. In the first case, CONI has every right to investigate a rider on home soil as with Valverde and the Tour when it entered Italy last year. CONI was simply fortunate to have worked with a Spanish judge who was willing to concede the Valve-Piti Puerto sack. From there it was a simple DNA test with the blood it had every right to analyze from the Tour last year. Italy can sanction any rider it has found to have doped on home soil.

CONI had a dept to settle with a top Spanish rider, given the way OP was handled in Spain and given that Italy's best stage racer lost an oportunity to win the Tour, whereas the last 3 Tour winners were Spanish. And remember many believe there is also a code name blood sack from OP that belongs to Alberto Contador as well. But it has become Valverde that has taken the full brunt of CONI's vendeta (which is what it is in my opinion). That the Tour enters Italy again this year seems to be another strong indication that there was something political behind CONI's intentions to punish the Spanish rider. Because if the UCI doesn't support CONI's decision and Valverde is only prevented from riding in Italy, then, without the Tour being involved, the spaniard only has to be sacrificed form Italian races which wouldn't have mattered much to him. That the Tour is sacrificed, however, makes the sting much, much more painful.

In the end, though, apart from the political intrigues, I find it stupid to believe that CONI has tampered evidence. CONI may not have always been consistent in dealing with the different cases. But it is not a criminal organization and to say that it is is just stupid.
Didn't CONI free-up Basso at one point and he signed on with Dicovery only to get stitched later by the Spaniards and the UCI? Can't remeber the details in all this endless doping crap, but it could be some pay from the Italians for what happened to Basso...
 
Sheltowee said:
Didn't CONI free-up Basso at one point and he signed on with Dicovery only to get stitched later by the Spaniards and the UCI? Can't remeber the details in all this endless doping crap, but it could be some pay from the Italians for what happened to Basso...
I think what happened was CONI was waiting for the blood sack. Until they had axcess to that, they couldn't pressure Basso into a confession. In the meantime Bruyneel had no scruples in hiring Basso, then CONI got the blood sack and pushed Ivan back into a corner...
 
Zoncolan said:
From cyclingnews:
Newly-elected Spanish Olympic Committee (COE) President Alejandro Blanco has denied any involvement in the suspension imposed upon Alejandro Valverde and insists the rider is innocent.
Good Lord. Wait, let me guess, it was his then non-gluten diet that caused his DNA taken in Italy to match the OP plasma they have with his name on it?

As poor as the justice may be served here, with people like Blanco around, it's no wonder this has taken so long and they get so ridiculed. At least the heads of RFEC before him were trying to after Saiz and Fuentes.

This Blanco guy may end up the head of UCI at the rate he's going.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Oh dear. Does Blanco realise how he sounds to everyone who's not spanish? Disgusted by hardly surprised?
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Sheltowee said:
Didn't CONI free-up Basso at one point and he signed on with Dicovery only to get stitched later by the Spaniards and the UCI? Can't remeber the details in all this endless doping crap, but it could be some pay from the Italians for what happened to Basso...
Yes, CONI cleared Basso of any wrongdoing. This opened the door for Discovery to hire Basso, contravening the gentleman's agreement between Pro teams not to hire suspected dopers. The only reason CONI suspended Basso is because he confessed. To the best of my knowledge, those blood bags are still not available and DNA tests have not been performed. But then again, why should they when Basso has confessed anyway?
 
Mar 16, 2009
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Italian authorities confirm Valverde's blood was in bag 18

Italian authorities have confirmed that Alejandro Valverde's blood was stored in bag number 18 in the Spanish laboratory of Dr Efuemiano Fuentes, and that this was the reason they banned him for two years.

Valverde has always denied he was involved with Operacion Puerto, but his team insisted on seeing the evidence used by the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) to sanction him, evidence that proves his blood was stored in Madrid.

The Union Cycliste International have also been provided with the evidence. Their lawyers will now assess the contents of the report before deciding whether or not to extend the two-year ban world wide.

The Spanish cycling authorities have never attempted to follow up the Valverde case that has now dragged on for almost three years.

According to the Spanish newspaper El Pais, two paragraphs in the 24-page document refer to the crucial DNA test carried out by scientists from the Italian police force on a blood sample provided by Valverde after stage 15 of the 2008 Tour de France.

This DNA was compared to a sample taken from the infamous blood bag Number 18, seized during the Operation Puerto anti-doping raids in Spain in 2006.

According to El Pais, those two paragraphs confirm the DNA from the two samples match.

The rest of the document is said to deal with the question of whether a foreign athlete can be suspended by the Italian authorities.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Dr. Wattini said:
Dudes,
Whether this is a Basso related incident is irrelevant. This is rather simple. If an athlete dopes, or has the intention to dope, the athlete needs to be judged. If you are serious about fighting doping, who pursues the athlete is irrelevant as long as they are catching the dopers.
If Valverde's blood is part of the blood found on Fuentes possession, and he had the "intention to dope", he should be suspended.
The issue is that the Spaniards were unable to deliver and sat on their behinds.
+1.........
 
injustice

hi guys, it's really a shame to heard some of your comments. Your information base is just rotten. You can always go to the cyclingnews archive which is based in copy information coming from spanish newspapers El Pais, As, Marca and so on, basically.

Your information base is just deformed from hungreds of posts. You cannot deliver the TRUTH any longer.
Valverde is being chased as part of a conspiracy, CONI just wants to do the justice by their own, and clean the guiltyness of their "oil for drugs", bassogate, etc.

Valverde showed today at Mont Ventoux that he is a truly champion, a gentleman, everybody respects him in Spain. Did you know that Rafa Nadal was complaining about the french public when he just lost at Roland Garros (after winning 4 times), and that he was saying that in the last 5 years the french public was never, never showing a bit of symplathy by him????? not the same for federer.

I see something similar happening with Valverde and some of you seems to show the same hate for the Spaniards... Not to mention the Irishmen!!!!!
Oh god what we have done to deserve this. Maybe that's part of globalisation in cycling?????
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Aguirre said:
hi guys, it's really a shame to heard some of your comments. Your information base is just rotten. You can always go to the cyclingnews archive which is based in copy information coming from spanish newspapers El Pais, As, Marca and so on, basically.

Your information base is just deformed from hungreds of posts. You cannot deliver the TRUTH any longer.
Valverde is being chased as part of a conspiracy, CONI just wants to do the justice by their own, and clean the guiltyness of their "oil for drugs", bassogate, etc.

Valverde showed today at Mont Ventoux that he is a truly champion, a gentleman, everybody respects him in Spain. Did you know that Rafa Nadal was complaining about the french public when he just lost at Roland Garros (after winning 4 times), and that he was saying that in the last 5 years the french public was never, never showing a bit of symplathy by him????? not the same for federer.

I see something similar happening with Valverde and some of you seems to show the same hate for the Spaniards... Not to mention the Irishmen!!!!!
Oh god what we have done to deserve this. Maybe that's part of globalisation in cycling?????
doping is illegal and punishable with jail in france. both nadal and valv.piti are alleged OP participants. work out their popularity (or lack of) for yourself. don't make this about nationality - it isn't.
 
Apr 3, 2009
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Aguirre said:
hi guys, it's really a shame to heard some of your comments. Your information base is just rotten. You can always go to the cyclingnews archive which is based in copy information coming from spanish newspapers El Pais, As, Marca and so on, basically.

Your information base is just deformed from hungreds of posts. You cannot deliver the TRUTH any longer.
Valverde is being chased as part of a conspiracy, CONI just wants to do the justice by their own, and clean the guiltyness of their "oil for drugs", bassogate, etc.

Valverde showed today at Mont Ventoux that he is a truly champion, a gentleman, everybody respects him in Spain. Did you know that Rafa Nadal was complaining about the french public when he just lost at Roland Garros (after winning 4 times), and that he was saying that in the last 5 years the french public was never, never showing a bit of symplathy by him????? not the same for federer.

I see something similar happening with Valverde and some of you seems to show the same hate for the Spaniards... Not to mention the Irishmen!!!!!
Oh god what we have done to deserve this. Maybe that's part of globalisation in cycling?????
Come on, how can you be a well-educated person and at the same time come up with such conspiracy nonsense? A worldwide plot against the Spanish, of course... :rolleyes:
 
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