Cadel and Silence-Lotto

[Argon Man]

I have taken the time to watch the tour again with the advatage of hindsight, and it is clear to see how much energy Cadel burned chasing the likes of Valverde, Kirchen Schumacher and Menchov in the first week. Then came the crash and then spent all the second week defending the yellow and chasing the Schlecks for the first half of the third. All the while Carlos was able to sit in behind the super CSC team playing the rear protector of Frank. He is barely noticeable in the tour up until the stage to Alp d'huez. That is the superiority of CSC.
Also remember before bagging Silence Lotto, that they probably had the second or third strongest team there. I don't recall seeing the Rabos or Garmin doing much better. Only Caisse D'Epargne had anything close to rivalling CSC teamwise except they didn't have a strong leader.

 

[asockpuppet]

For those musing about why Evan's doesn't change to a team that will provide better support in the TDF, lets remember

There are only '20' jobs available as team leader in the TDF, discount the 'invited' continental teams, leaves probably 17,... discount the French & spanish teams which pretty much never have a 'foreign' leader & you're back to about 11 or 12...take out the teams which have no interest in a 'GC' rider & you're back to about 6 or 7. Of those, Astana, Cervelo, CSC, Garmin, Rabo & Columbia all have 'captains' that would seemingly have as good or better chance as SL of winning the tour. There really aren't that many options for him

SL attempted to provide Evans with team support last year...unfortunately they let Horner go & employed Popoffthebackovitch, who seemingly had the credentials to do much better than he did, but was basically useless. It will be truely amazing if popoffthebackovitch is able to transform himself back into a useful domestic under the tutorledge of Armstrong/Bruyneel's 'training regimes'

To say Evans will never win the TDF is a big call, maybe he won't, but do this little exercise, in last years TDF, put Sastre in SL & Evans in CSC & tell me the result would have been the same...methinks not

 

[msjett]

By the way Menchov never fell on the Alpe. He attempted to cover Sastre's attack but couldn't and was caught by the yellow jersey group (F. Schleck) that included all of the contenders at the time. Menchov was then dropped if I recall and eventually fought back and regained contact with F. Schleck,Evans and company if I recall correctly. .

Well I must have been watching a different tour.....cause I seem to remember Menchov attacking on the alpe, and slipping on a corner, which was enough for the rest of them to catch him..I don't remember any other falls of his.

 

[Trev_S]

By the way Menchov never fell on the Alpe. He attempted to cover Sastre's attack but couldn't and was caught by the yellow jersey group (F. Schleck) that included all of the contenders at the time. Menchov was then dropped if I recall and eventually fought back and regained contact with F. Schleck,Evans and company if I recall correctly. His fall came on the wet pavement on the climb to Prato Nevoso a couple of stages before. I remember that he was looking especially strong that day and had quickly created significant gap that no one seemed able to cover.

Stage 15, (won by Simon Gerrans)
I was watching that last night (coincidentally) on the final climb Menchov attacked and came down on a wet road. One CSC rider (I think was Sastre) had responded but not yet caught up. Menchov lost a lot of ground but caught back up fairly quickly.

 

[lookkg386]

Well I must have been watching a different tour.....cause I seem to remember Menchov attacking on the alpe, and slipping on a corner, which was enough for the rest of them to catch him..I don't remember any other falls of his.

Yep I remember, slipped on a left switch back I think.

 

[Anonymous]

personally i think i have more chance of winning the london marathon than he has of winning a major tour..

(didnt they say charlie wegalius was signed to give cadel that extra edge to win the tour. )

I actually find cadel mindnumbingly boring.. in the tour last year i almost wanted to do something, not because i wanted him to win, but just the frustration of watching a cyclist who either didnt have the ability, didnt have the energy, or simply couldnt be bothered to make any sort of attack.. he just dawdled around (as much as you can dawdle in mountains) on everyone elses wheel.. no agression, no desire..

for me the guy lacks passion, guts and that extra edge that it takes to win.. as the teams did the parade in paris after the tdf it can be no co-incidence that as cadel came towards us a dark cloud passed over the sun.. the guy just oozes dull..

he also, watching p-n seems to have put on an awful lot of weight... im starting to wonder if hes having withdrawal.. (well, theres not been a drug allegation on this thread yet)

 

[Mellow Velo]

Good thread, this.

Giving Evans the right support has and always will be an issue.
Lotto are historically a team for the classics and one day windies.
Then he had to "share" with McEwen.
Where is the Quick Step Tour contender?

This year would have given him a true Tour team, but for circumstances beyond their control.
If he had had this team, plus a then available Kohl, he might well have survived the Alpe assult to win.

This year? No chance, I'd say.

 

[The Falcon]

i find the analysis of some of our armchair experts humorous and concerning.

to suggest that Evans doesnt have "guts" is laughable. Watch his ride to Prato Nevoso and tell us again how we has no guts.

the bloke is doing the very best he can with the motor he has and the team support he was given. yes, he whinged and carried on which was a disappointment however his 2nd in the circumstance was a good achievement.

We cant all be winners

 

[Notso Swift]

Lotto is not historically a GC team, but you have to admit they really tried to build fo 2009.
Astana will most likely win, but I can still see a Minimum top 5
Evens no guts, that sort of statment is so nieve it is insulting to anyone who has actually watched the sport.
EVERY rider in the pro peleton has more guts than 99.9% of blokes posting here

 

[Anonymous]

Evens no guts, that sort of statment is so nieve it is insulting to anyone who has actually watched the sport.
EVERY rider in the pro peleton has more guts than 99.9% of blokes posting here

and that statement may well be insulting to some of the people posting here, without knowing there circumstances its impossible to know.. or is that what the .1% relates to...

I stand by my comment, watched pro cycling for over 20 years, including every single stage of every single major tour, raced for 10 years (assuming the niavety comment was aimed at my statement about cadel lacking guts), and i still think cadel lacks balls.. or if not completely certainly the balls it takes to win the tour.... maybe he just doesnt have the ability..

 

[The Falcon]

very evidently he doesnt have the ability.

that you assume its a lack of "balls" is an insult. we can only do the best with the motor we have inherited from our parents (or we can chemically enhance of course)

 

[Angliru]

Well I must have been watching a different tour.....cause I seem to remember Menchov attacking on the alpe, and slipping on a corner, which was enough for the rest of them to catch him..I don't remember any other falls of his.

The pavement wasn't even wet on the Alpe d'Huez stage. If you check the stage results description for the 2 stages in question (on this very same site)
you will see that there is no mention of Menchov slipping and falling on Alpe d'Huez. Now check on the earlier stage that I referenced and you'll see that is the stage that you're thinking of. You're just mistaken that's all.

 

[Bala Verde]

The pavement wasn't even wet on the Alpe d'Huez stage. If you check the stage results description for the 2 stages in question (on this very same site)
you will see that there is no mention of Menchov slipping and falling on Alpe d'Huez. Now check on the earlier stage that I referenced and you'll see that is the stage that you're thinking of. You're just mistaken that's all.

I think you are both right, but the problem is, you are referring to different stages.

Menchov did NOT fall on Alpe D'huez, but blew himself up at the start when he tried to follow Sastre, he then was dropped by the yellow jersey peloton, after which he fought back and regained his position in that peloton

Howevr Menchov DID FALL in the stage to prato nevoso (http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=live/tour0815) 3.2 k before the finish. I think he looked really strong there and created a substantial gap that no one seemed to be able/willing to close. His rear wheel slipped however and was soon recaptured by the main contenders.

 

[Angliru]

I have taken the time to watch the tour again with the advatage of hindsight, and it is clear to see how much energy Cadel burned chasing the likes of Valverde, Kirchen Schumacher and Menchov in the first week. Then came the crash and then spent all the second week defending the yellow and chasing the Schlecks for the first half of the third. All the while Carlos was able to sit in behind the super CSC team playing the rear protector of Frank. He is barely noticeable in the tour up until the stage to Alp d'huez. That is the superiority of CSC.

All of the contenders were chasing Valverde in stage one that he won and the other stage that Ricco won and he finished 2nd. Why Evans would personally be chasing Schumacher someone who is not considered an overall threat is beyond me but since you say you watched it all recently I guess we'll just have to take your word for it although, seeing that you're from Australia I think the tint of you lenses might have a bit of the Silence-Lotto hue to them and may possibly be altering your perspective.

As far as his defending the yellow jersey the entire second week, that was his own personal choice which I question the logic of with the "weak" team that he had. Taking the yellow jersey, yes, that is hard to resist when the opportunity presents itself but deciding to fight for it for a week when your team is as "weak" as everyone, including Cadel, insists that it is especially versus the 3 headed monster that was the CSC juggernaut, isn't a recipe for success in the pivotal 3rd week with Alpe d'Huez looming heavily on everyone's thoughts.

Regarding Sastre being barely visible in the first 2 weeks of the Tour, if you look at the history of his performances in the Tour that is how he rides every year. Now he was quite visible fetching bottles, playing super-domestique but of course that must have been deleted from the coverage that you were recently watching or maybe you just missed it.

Evans rode valiantly and finished an impressive 2nd inspite of the limitations of his team in the mountains. The race was his for the taking at the base of Alpe d'Huez. Sastre's experience and tactical expertise were the difference plus Evan's decision to attempt to cover the multiple attacks instead of riding his normal steady, diesel engine type pace. I also believe his long known strategy of limiting his losses in the mountains so that he could make up the difference in the time trial came back to bite him in the a**.

 

[Angliru]

Howevr Menchov DID FALL in the stage to prato nevoso (http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2008/tour08/?id=live/tour0815) 3.2 k before the finish. I think he looked really strong there and created a substantial gap that no one seemed to be able/willing to close. His rear wheel slipped however and was soon recaptured by the main contenders.

I mentioned of all this in an earlier post but it hasn't seemed to register.