Cadel's Team for 2010?

[auscyclefan94]

What aggression are we talking about? He attacked once on a mountain stage today, was caught, then sat back down and rode it out. Or was it the aggression as he rode away from his teammates on the line of the TTT?

I don't think he can or will ever win a Tour. Riders of his style, Leipheimer, etc are great for smaller stage races, but lack the ability to ride away from people that you need to win a grand tour. He's better off resetting his expectations and focusing elsewhere.

Cadel was agressive today. Other than AC, Cadel was the only one who attacked and he attacked twice! Cadel i think needs to get even more agressive this tour and be willing to lose everything (even though he doesn't have much. He needs to ride with panache but has to keep his head screwed on so when he makes the big effort it is in the right place in the right time.

 

[PACONi]

Cadel was agressive today. Other than AC, Cadel was the only one who attacked and he attacked twice! Cadel i think needs to get even more agressive this tour and be willing to lose everything (even though he doesn't have much. He needs to ride with panache but has to keep his head screwed on so when he makes the big effort it is in the right place in the right time.

I think he needs to use the rest of the Tour as a trial run for future tactics. He can't win from here (not after how AC rode away from everyone with such ease), and with 2 seconds in the last two years, who cares if he doesn't make the podium? Thus, he should just throw caution to the wind at this point and see where it gets him. Maybe a stage win if he's lucky/smart.

 

[PACONi]

The problem is that even if Evans were better than Contador in what purports to be mountain stages of this Tour, he likely would not gain enough time to make up for his team's p!ss poor team time trial.

What about Lampre...

Who's at Lampre that could help him?

 

[BroDeal]

Who's at Lampre that could help him?

Cunego for one. He is not a TdF contender, and he can no longer be considered a Giro contender either.

If Evans were to find another team, it could not be French because of "preparation" issues. The same goes for Garmin. Saxo and Astana already have GC contenders. Liquigas have Basso. Caisse will maybe pick up Contador. QS is not a GC team. Et cetera. As you start going down the list, there are few possible teams.

 

[PACONi]

Cunego for one. He is not a TdF contender, and he can no longer be considered a Giro contender either.

If Evans were to find another team, it could not be French because of "preparation" issues. The same goes for Garmin. Saxo and Astana already have GC contenders. Liquigas have Basso. Caisse will maybe pick up Contador. QS is not a GC team. Et cetera. As you start going down the list, there are few possible teams.

I agree with what you're saying, except that I don't think Cunego would be much help. He seems to go out the back pretty quickly these days.
Someone needs to tell Brad Wiggens about those aforementioned 'issues'. I mean, since when could he climb, and yesterday he crossed the line and didn't even look like he was trying very hard.

As some others have mentioned, Highroad would work. Rogers, Kirchen and he'd take Lloyd with him if he left. Only problem is Cav. Cav garauntee's them win's, Evans only give them a chance.

 

[BroDeal]

I agree with what you're saying, except that I don't think Cunego would be much help. He seems to go out the back pretty quickly these days.
Someone needs to tell Brad Wiggens about those aforementioned 'issues'. I mean, since when could he climb, and yesterday he crossed the line and didn't even look like he was trying very hard.

As some others have mentioned, Highroad would work. Rogers, Kirchen and he'd take Lloyd with him if he left. Only problem is Cav. Cav garauntee's them win's, Evans only give them a chance.

We will see how well Wiggins does by the end of the Tour. Garmin achieved a big fat nothing during the Giro. They seem to be able to put up a credible performance on occasion but not consistently. Just like Cunego.

Maybe Highroad is the best choice if Cav and the management would be satisfied with nearly half the TdF squad being climbers to support Evans.

 

[TibetT]

No one has mentioned Cervelo, with Sastre as a super domestique. LOL's I really can't see Cadel leaving Lotto other than to go to a new LA Bruyneel project. Evans still has a few years in the legs - and with 2nds he still has a shot at winning the tour. The young guns may be coming up, but AC is really the only one who is a step ahead of Cadel. And if AC leaves Bruyneel and Evans signs on well .... anything could happen.

Lotto are a young team, they will be better next year for the trials of this years tour and Cadel seems to have inspired the team to work for him (to the best of their abilities).

 

[msjett]

Lotto are a young and inexperienced team this year, and I think they are heading in the right direction so far....excluding the khol/dekker debacles and the issue of a few of them staying upright when needed. It's a base to continue work on. A good showing of unity, team work and a win or at least a good finish in this tour could attract other quality(off contract) riders to the team next year.

 

[PACONi]

Lotto are a young and inexperienced team this year, and I think they are heading in the right direction so far....excluding the khol/dekker debacles and the issue of a few of them staying upright when needed. It's a base to continue work on. A good showing of unity, team work and a win or at least a good finish in this tour could attract other quality(off contract) riders to the team next year.

Thats the problem really isn't it. Everyone they've signed to help Evans out has bombed on them.
Hypothetically, if Popo was still at Lotto and riding like he used to, Kohl and Dekker were clean and they'd kept Horner then Lotto suddenly looks very strong. Reality is that they have gotten nothing from all of those contract decisions.

I'd rather see him stay at Lotto, than join LA/Bruyneel. At least now I can tell myself he's 'clean/er' than guys like AC. Also, Lotto did a pretty good job yesterday.

 

[yourwelcome]

Watching him race, it looks like Evans just can't push his body far enough to be a real chance at winning against a Contador or Sastre (to name two of the probably four or five GC guys who apparently can ride away from him uphill whenever they like). He's already constantly pushing himself to the brink just to keep up. The guy can barely speak when he's interviewed after a stage. I'd love to be wrong but those 2nd placings looked more like hard work from somebody without a strong team and emotionally not that suited to battling it out in the pro peloton, rather than a promise of better things to come.

Whether his problem is that he's not with the program (enough?) to compete, or it's just that there's a few even more gifted guys ahead right now, it's hard to see any team getting excited about investing in somebody who's proven their level best already and shown it to be 2nd.

None of the above is meant to belittle his achievements. In several ways his 2nd places looked more hard-earned than the respective winners those years.

 

[issoisso]

You can't seriously be advocating signing Cunego to support Cadel!?

Cunego has the second highest salary in the sport. It could pay for two Cadels and there'd be money left. There's no way he'd take the kind of pay cut that would require. Of course on his next contract he'll never get the ridiculous salary he's on, but he won't take all that much less.

 

[PACONi]

Watching him race, it looks like Evans just can't push his body far enough to be a real chance at winning against a Contador or Sastre (to name two of the probably four or five GC guys who apparently can ride away from him uphill whenever they like). He's already constantly pushing himself to the brink just to keep up. The guy can barely speak when he's interviewed after a stage. I'd love to be wrong but those 2nd placings looked more like hard work from somebody without a strong team and emotionally not that suited to battling it out in the pro peloton, rather than a promise of better things to come.

Whether his problem is that he's not with the program (enough?) to compete, or it's just that there's a few even more gifted guys ahead right now, it's hard to see any team getting excited about investing in somebody who's proven their level best already and shown it to be 2nd.

None of the above is meant to belittle his achievements. In several ways his 2nd places looked more hard-earned than the respective winners those years.

Contador, yes. Sastre, no. Besides AC I don't think anyone can ride away from Evans 'whenever they like'. At least they've not done so in the past few years (except maybe Rassmussen ).
Sure some guys can drop him in the right situation and I think Evans has made some bad tactical decisions on who and when to chase that cost him last years Tour and this years Dauphine.
Put Evans (in place of Sastre) in CSC last year and he'd probably have won the race by minutes.

 

[PACONi]

You can't seriously be advocating signing Cunego to support Cadel!?

Cunego has the second highest salary in the sport. It could pay for two Cadels and there'd be money left. There's no way he'd take the kind of pay cut that would require. Of course on his next contract he'll never get the ridiculous salary he's on, but he won't take all that much less.

No, I don't think Cunego is at a level where he can survive long enough on the climbs to help a GC contender.

 

[yourwelcome]

Contador, yes. Sastre, no. Besides AC I don't think anyone can ride away from Evans 'whenever they like'. At least they've not done so in the past few years (except maybe Rassmussen ).

I figure Sastre showed what he can do vs. Evans on the Alpe last year. I don't buy that Evans just sat out that climb. He looked worn out at the final TT.

Valverde rode away from Evans only weeks ago, although admittedly he's probably too inconsistent to last out a GT against Evans. Andy Schleck, judging by the way he easily rode up the Alpe marking Cadel last year. Lance maybe.

Maybe you're right and I'm underestimating Cadel because he always seems to be on the limit, and it's hard for me to see how a better team could improve his performance that much on the crucial parts of the climbs where the Tour is decided. I'd like to be proven wrong. He deserves a win far as I am concerned.

 

[Frosty]

As far as the current roster at Silence-Lotto goes, i think that Philip gilbert would have been a help in the TTT. Could also have done some domestique work on the flat stages. I know that he is a classics rider but last year he seemed happy to work on the front for Sebastian Hinault.

However, his absence is understandable given that he did seemingly every Classic, followed by the tours of romandie and italy.

 

[issoisso]

As far as the current roster at Silence-Lotto goes, i think that Philip gilbert would have been a help in the TTT. Could also have done some domestique work on the flat stages. I know that he is a classics rider but last year he seemed happy to work on the front for Sebastian Hinault.

Are you sure you're talking about Gilbert? He's anything but a time triallist and he wasn't on Hinault's team last year

 

[Frosty]

Are you sure you're talking about Gilbert? He's anything but a time triallist and he wasn't on Hinault's team last year

Sorry, i meant Chavanel rather than Hinault!

As for him in the TTT, i know that he is not a front-line TTer. However, arent the requirements of the TTT different to those of a TT? TTs are a constant effort while a rider in a TTT has a more varied effort. I would have thought that a Classics rider might therefore do better in one of these events than just simply looking at TT times might show. Ok, so its just a prologue but Gilbert did beat Evans in the Romandie prologue this year. Would do better than some of the riders in the tour team IMO. Maybe he'll be there next year

 

[Irish2009]

QED. Thought about this today. If Evans went to Garmin, he'd have the back up in the TTT/flat from Wiggo,Miller and Zabriske, and Dan Martin,Wiggo and Vende De Velde in the mountains.

 

[180mmCrank]

Evans, Evans, Evans...Where to start?

Clearly Evans is a talented cyclist and he has a big heart (that's metaphorical not pysiological!) but the guy is infuriating to watch:

He doesn't seem to understand bike racing. He seems to have the racing smarts of a cat3 rider. His theatrics in the Dauphine were something to behold. His attack today was... well just not very smart. And which classic this year did he sprint way too early?...I could go on.

He falls apart under pressure and says/does the most ill-judged things off the bike - often making himself look less than professional but worse than that alienating his team.

It must drive his fans and team mates nuts.

My advice (and I have said this before) - Cadel needs to move to a team with a sports psych and a mentor (someone that can do for him what Zabel does for Cav).

I would love to see him perform at the level that he is capable but the guy needs a different kind of help than what he currently has...and this isn't just about the team on the road. The Silence L team aren't that bad - this is about Cadel not the team.

 

[Anonymous]

Evans, Evans, Evans...Where to start?

Clearly Evans is a talented cyclist and he has a big heart (that's metaphorical not pysiological!) but the guy is infuriating to watch:

He doesn't seem to understand bike racing. He seems to have the racing smarts of a cat3 rider. His theatrics in the Dauphine were something to behold. His attack today was... well just not very smart. And which classic this year did he sprint way too early?...I could go on.

He falls apart under pressure and says/does the most ill-judged things off the bike - often making himself look less than professional but worse than that alienating his team.

It must drive his fans and team mates nuts.

My advice (and I have said this before) - Cadel needs to move to a team with a sports psych and a mentor (someone that can do for him what Zabel does for Cav).

I would love to see him perform at the level that he is capable but the guy needs a different kind of help than what he currently has...and this isn't just about the team on the road. The Silence L team aren't that bad - this is about Cadel not the team.

agree...

personally i think its time to send cadel the cyling graveyard with the epitaph "what could have been"...

 

[BroDeal]

agree...

personally i think its time to send cadel the cyling graveyard with the epitaph "what could have been"...

Cattle should target the Giro or Vuelta so he can retire with a GT win.

 

[heinkel12]

I have wondered if his lack of tactical nous comes from getting into road racing too late. I raced from the time I was 10 years old and I'm sure others on the forum did from a similar age and you pick up the tactical smarts from experience. Cadel raced mountain bikes until his 20;s with just occasional forays into road racing and I have wondered if that is why he is tactically naive. You learn this stuff from a young age.

As for his stage 8 attack it was a long shot but maybe worth stretching the legs to see what sort of reaction there was. On another day in another year it may have worked but Astana is too strong this time and will shut down anything threatening. The trouble is, that can make for some dull racing.

 

[yourwelcome]

For somebody 'tactically naive', he's put himself within seconds of winning the Tour twice now against much stronger teams. Yes a sports psych might be a good idea, but he's obviously doing some things very right in order to finish 2nd at the Tour surrounded by CSC. Plenty of other riders considered 'tactically astute' trying to take that spot. It sure wasn't gifted to him.

 

[elapid]

While his attacks may not have been well timed, I have to give Cadel kudos for changing his style and giving it a go. Firstly, he was one of the few riders that I know of that have changed their style to counteract rivals. Ullrich never changed his diesel engine climbing style despite being constantly beaten by Armstrong's high cadence climbing. Secondly, he more-or-less has to throw caution to the wind when he is three minutes down and facing teams as strong as Astana and SaxoBank.

 

[yourwelcome]

Completely agree with that.