Campagnolo - Any point?

[Cookster15]

Too expensive and it’s heavier?

Campagnolo Super Record WR review: Testing the world's most expensive groupset

Super Record WR represents the pinnacle of Campagnolo's groupset technology, but does the performance ultimately fall short?

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Wyndbrook]

Major point.
Try freewheeling in a group ride with Sram, noisey as hell, everyone knows straight away who's sat in the group taking it easy. Surprising as they originally bought all their technology from a German company,

 

[froze]

Too expensive and it’s heavier?

Campagnolo Super Record WR review: Testing the world's most expensive groupset

Super Record WR represents the pinnacle of Campagnolo's groupset technology, but does the performance ultimately fall short?

www.cyclingnews.com

There isn't any materials, labor, technology in any group set worth the kind of money they rip us off for, but it's the cycling world, and the cycling industry thinks that most cyclists are filthy rich, and that most of us are just plain stupid with our money, and will believe any marketing BS and go buy that expensive stuff.

I don't care what anyone says, but no one can tell me that these group sets, like Campy Super Record, or Shimano Dura Ace, has more technology, more labor, more money to buy the materials to make them then a Yamaha V Star 250 that costs less than $5,000 brand new, heck you can even get a brand new BMW G310R for under $5,000...and it's German made! The other weird thing about todays group sets, they don't even have the artistry of the expert machining skills that the old 60's and 70's era derailleurs had, these new high end derailleurs are just stamped out 4 layers carbon fiber, and they all have that disgustingly ugly industrial look.

Now I have to go hide from the rocks that are going to be thrown at me for saying that stuff here.

 

[Cookster15]

There isn't any materials, labor, technology in any group set worth the kind of money they rip us off for, but it's the cycling world, and the cycling industry thinks that most cyclists are filthy rich, and that most of us are just plain stupid with our money, and will believe any marketing BS and go buy that expensive stuff.

I don't care what anyone says, but no one can tell me that these group sets, like Campy Super Record, or Shimano Dura Ace, has more technology, more labor, more money to buy the materials to make them then a Yamaha V Star 250 that costs less than $5,000 brand new, heck you can even get a brand new BMW G310R for under $5,000...and it's German made! The other weird thing about todays group sets, they don't even have the artistry of the expert machining skills that the old 60's and 70's era derailleurs had, these new high end derailleurs are just stamped out 4 layers carbon fiber, and they all have that disgustingly ugly industrial look.

Now I have to go hide from the rocks that are going to be thrown at me for saying that stuff here.

Agree 100%. My younger brother is into motor cross bikes he always reminds me how those bikes cost similar or less to a team spec race road bike - plus motor cross bikes are far more complex, have high power motors, suspension and also use similar materials like carbon and titanium.

But I think the industry is right - as you say most of us are just plain stupid and will believe any marketing BS. Herd mentality.

Case in point - disc brakes. Discs added about half a kilo to bike weight. They are nice to use when they don’t squeal but give questionable benefits for skilled or experienced riders. But discs on road bikes were new so people had to buy them. The industry then withdrew rim brakes from the market. Then after the ignominy of Peter Sagan’s Specialized Venge at 8.4Kg the industry was forced to find further weight savings. Along with electronic shifting and now 12 speed this exploded the costs. The price of team spec race bikes has almost doubled in 8 years. That is way above the general rate of inflation even with Covid.

 

[Cookster15]

Major point.
Try freewheeling in a group ride with Sram, noisey as hell, everyone knows straight away who's sat in the group taking it easy. Surprising as they originally bought all their technology from a German company,

I am riding on DT Swiss hubs. Beautiful sounding freewheeling. Thanks for revealing which brand makes the ugly loud sound.

 

[42x16ss]

Campagnolo has always been an innovator over the years, and unlike Shimano and SRAM at least you can completely strip down and rebuild their shifters. A crash isn't usually a death sentence for a Campagnolo shifter.

The constant gripe I always hear (other than the price) is that the shift feel is heavier than Shimano. This is true out of the box, but actually gets lighter and faster over time with their mechanical groupsets.

Then there's the fact they actually have real backwards compatibility *cough* shimano *cough* and continue to make high end mechanical and rim brake groupsets.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I like the fact that they still offer you the option to have high level mechanical groupsets.
Chorus + a really light crankset holds up against everything, performance, weight and money wise. I'm legit thinking of getting a high level Chinese frame built up with that instead of the fancy electric shifting stuff.

 

[42x16ss]

I like the fact that they still offer you the option to have high level mechanical groupsets.
Chorus + a really light crankset holds up against everything, performance, weight and money wise. I'm legit thinking of getting a high level Chinese frame built up with that instead of the fancy electric shifting stuff.

A friend rides a Winspace SLC 3.0 with Chorus and Boras and some lighter components, great climbing bike.

 

[Mayomaniac]

A friend rides a Winspace SLC 3.0 with Chorus and Boras and some lighter components, great climbing bike.

Nice, I'm actually thinking about doing that with a Winspace or a Bigrock bike. Maybe not the full blown climbing bikes, but the more aero ones. His bike must be really light.
Maybe a light crankset like Cybrei or something similar on top.
The only argument against it that I've heared is that it is harder to get spare parts for Campagnolo compared to Shimano or Sram, but they are not that exotic, mainly here in Italy. It's not like I'm getting some weird Chinese groupset.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

OMG, this thread has turned into WeightWeenies!
I agree with the sentiments above. I've never owned Sram for road, only Shimano or Campag (though my mountain bikes have Sram electronic). For road I have Ultegra Di2 currently. Nice shifting grouppo to be sure, but very utilitarian, whereas Campag has an undeniable artistic appeal (to me). And I was a huge fan of the mechanical thumb shifters.
I'm frankly sad to see Campag fall into irrelevance.

 

[42x16ss]

OMG, this thread has turned into WeightWeenies!
I agree with the sentiments above. I've never owned Sram for road, only Shimano or Campag (though my mountain bikes have Sram electronic). For road I have Ultegra Di2 currently. Nice shifting grouppo to be sure, but very utilitarian, whereas Campag has an undeniable artistic appeal (to me). And I was a huge fan of the mechanical thumb shifters.
I'm frankly sad to see Campag fall into irrelevance.

Has anyone else managed to get mechanical to make multiple shifts at once in both directions yet? Campagnolo mastered that when? Late 90s?

 

[Cookster15]

Has anyone else managed to get mechanical to make multiple shifts at once in both directions yet? Campagnolo mastered that when? Late 90s?

This is a nice to have. If it was a significant performance advantage we'd see more teams riding Campag.

IMO, some people have no problem paying the price premium for Italian flair. I'm not one of them. Note I was using Campag many years ago. Switched to Dura Ace in 1995 and have stuck with it. Does the job, fine shifting and braking and is reliable.

 

[42x16ss]

This is a nice to have. If it was a significant performance advantage we'd see more teams riding Campag.

IMO, some people have no problem paying the price premium for Italian flair. I'm not one of them. Note I was using Campag many years ago. Switched to Dura Ace in 1995 and have stuck with it. Does the job, fine shifting and braking and is reliable.

I just saw the prices for the new Super Record and Record wireless! WTF has happened to this sport? You could buy a pro spec bike less than 10 years ago for the price of the Super Record ...

 

[Cookster15]

I just saw the prices for the new Super Record and Record wireless! WTF has happened to this sport? You could buy a pro spec bike less than 10 years ago for the price of the Super Record ...

Tell me about it. In 2016 I could buy a Dura Ace group set for $A2K. That was part of a near pro spec bike ridden by one of the teams in the peloton which you could build up comfortably less than $10k. Since then the price for a pro spec bike has doubled and then some. $20K no worries.

Electronic shifting, disc brakes and aero watt savings are nice. But not at double the price. When I started racing in the mid/late 80s all you needed was a Reynolds or Columbus steel frame with Campag or Shimano. Now you need to be quite wealthy. Cycling has become a sport like sailing. It’s cheaper to do competitive motocross which have motors and added complexity. But this is our fault - we (the cycling community) buy the stuff!

 

[Mayomaniac]

I have to say Campagnolo Ekar, the 1x13 Gravel groupset is a good idea for those who might think about a one by road set-up.
Take the 44 chainring in the front and go with 9-42 in the back (might also go 10-42, if you prefer that). Of course there are larger jumps between the light gears of the cassette, but you have as much (slightly more) min to max gear ration than a road Sram set-up or a semi-compact Ultegra one. You can get it for just over 1000€ and it's lighter than Dura-Ace.
Now of course some will dislike the fact that it's mechanical shifting (I actually prefer that), but it's one of the best things Campagnolo have done in many years.

 

[froze]

Suntour was the BEST stuff ever make, I have a bike with 100% Superbe on it and it has over 160,000 miles on the components and not a single repair, and about 50,000 of that was racing, but about 150,000 of it was a combination of daily mountain riding and some flat.

Anyway, you can't get that stuff new so on to the discussion.

Not sure what kind of terrain you'll be riding, but Tiagra has a wide gear range it can use, so if you need gears for steep climbs and you're not as strong of a rider, having a wider gear range could be helpful. Tiagra most people believe is better than Veloce.

With Centaur vs 105, the gear ratio choice is a bit larger with the Centaur, but 105 has a snappier shift response, and better reliability. The other consideration is that 105 replacement parts are less expensive, and easier to maintain.

If you are on a budget I would go with Shimano, and due to the greater reliability, less weight, better shifting, I would go with 105 and not Tiagra.

You could do a bit of a mix if you want slightly better shifting, go with all 105, but get a Ultegra rear derailleur, it shouldn't cost more than $40 extra, but I'm not sure if Ripple will do a swap, if not, then just wait till the 105 fails which will be about 15 years down the road if you're averaging 5,000 miles a year, then replace it with Ultegra. On my Lynskey I have 105 components except the rear derailleur is Ultegra, that bike is 12 years old with roughly 40,000 miles and not a single repair, but maintenance is the key to making them last.

 

[jakasspeech11]

Major point.
Try freewheeling in a group ride with Sram, noisey as hell, everyone knows straight away who's sat in the group taking it easy. Surprising as they originally bought all their technology from a German company,

Noise level is a known factor in Sram freewheels especially in group rides

 

[froze]

If you're wanting Campy, then why would you go cheap with Shimano? Strange.

If you're willing to spend the money for Campy, then go with either Centaur or Chorus...or you could mix the two so you would get the best where it matters, and the rest where it doesn't matter.

So I ran that thought through AI and this is what it came up with"

Crankset (arms + rings)	Centaur	$150–$200	Slightly heavier but fully compatible with a 12 sp chain if you swap to Chorus 12 sp rings (or run Centaur rings with minimal noise)
Brake calipers	Centaur	$80–$100	Rim or mechanical-disc calipers; lever-to-caliper actuation is identical across tiers
Bottom bracket	Centaur	$20–$30	Campy BB standards match across groupsets
Rotors & Pads	Centaur	$10–$20 per wheel	Same mechanical-disc spec
Pedals, BB tool, cables	Centaur	$0–$20	Ancillaries you’ll need anyway

Those dollar amounts listed is what you would save from going with all Chorus, the weight penalty doing that is around 250 grams. Personally I would just go with all Centaur, it's a very good and rugged groupset.

If you decide to go with Shimano I personally would go with 105, nothing higher or lower, it's very well price, extremely durable and reliable, replacement parts are cheap and easy to find. You're not going to save much money at all going with Tiagra, but you'll save a lot by not going with Ultegra while only giving up about 180 grams which is nothing. Plus 105 is easier to upgrade later if you decide to do that, but I don't really see the reason to do that.

Since this bike is a commuter bike there is no need to go with Chorus or Ultegra, those are made for people who wish to do some racing, so stick with something reliable and more affordable.

 

[ChasingPotatoes]

If you're wanting Campy, then why would you go cheap with Shimano? Strange.

If you're willing to spend the money for Campy, then go with either Centaur or Chorus...or you could mix the two so you would get the best where it matters, and the rest where it doesn't matter.

So I ran that thought through AI and this is what it came up with"

Crankset (arms + rings)	Centaur	$150–$200	Slightly heavier but fully compatible with a 12 sp chain if you swap to Chorus 12 sp rings (or run Centaur rings with minimal noise)
Brake calipers	Centaur	$80–$100	Rim or mechanical-disc calipers; lever-to-caliper actuation is identical across tiers
Bottom bracket	Centaur	$20–$30	Campy BB standards match across groupsets
Rotors & Pads	Centaur	$10–$20 per wheel	Same mechanical-disc spec
Pedals, BB tool, cables	Centaur	$0–$20	Ancillaries you’ll need anyway

Those dollar amounts listed is what you would save from going with all Chorus, the weight penalty doing that is around 250 grams. Personally I would just go with all Centaur, it's a very good and rugged groupset.

If you decide to go with Shimano I personally would go with 105, nothing higher or lower, it's very well price, extremely durable and reliable, replacement parts are cheap and easy to find. You're not going to save much money at all going with Tiagra, but you'll save a lot by not going with Ultegra while only giving up about 180 grams which is nothing. Plus 105 is easier to upgrade later if you decide to do that, but I don't really see the reason to do that.

Since this bike is a commuter bike there is no need to go with Chorus or Ultegra, those are made for people who wish to do some racing, so stick with something reliable and more affordable.

There is nothing for discs in Centaur.


Anyways, many here forget Campagnolo still has excellent mechanical groupsets (disc and rim) that are, frankly, a steal when you look at weight, longevity, quality and thus also price.

You e.g. have record 2x12 rim for around 1100 euro and record 2x12 disc for around 1500 euro.

With the introduction of the new 2x13 electronic groupset, you can even get super record EPS 2x12 for the price of 105DI2...! That's around 1000 euro.

And you get super record WRL disc 2x12 for 2100.

That's less than Dura ace 2x12 (above 2500 euro), and Ultegra 2x12 is around 1500 euro. SRAM red is north of 3500 euro... (all of the above without PM).

So whoever is saying that Campagnolo is expensive, isn't looking at either deals on electronic, or isn't looking at mechanical 2x12 where Campagnolo is like the only one still making those high-end mechanical 2x12 groupsets for road and almost the only one for rim brakes (you also have 105 and GRX ofcourse for disc, if you want 2x12 mechanical).