Can Jonathan Vaughters save pro cycling?

[Ferdinand Artichoke]

Your opinion is corrupted by self loathing

MANY are not honest in this very simple game of human nature. I cheated by simply lying about my score after the first round and won the game ultimately in the end by steeling

So you are an ignorant cheet

I dont believe anybody finishes a major Grand Tour totally clean...

and you can't handle the idea that you could be better (honest and openminded) so you try and tell the world it's like you


Try actually reading 'Rough ride' by Paul Kimmage(rather than talking about the bits that support your own cynicism) if you don't believe you can finish a grand tour clean.

Hope is available if you want it

 

[Boeing]

JV needs more Euro Allies if he is going to be taken seriously by these feds

I respect his position however. just saying as I did on another thread. he has no where to go but against the grain in this good old boys club that is pro cycling on the euro continent

What is JV's relationship with David Brailsford like? Get his ear and Vaughters might have a good basis of support

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Vaughters and is merry men should start the change by telling the truth about Postal. Instead he and his team are a cynical public relations campaign, the PR opposite of Rock Racing. Both are teams of ex-dopers which are just interested in image.

He should push for an amnesty so riders will not be punished if they come forward and admit what they and their teams did. Trying to go forward while hiding the past will never work.

what do you mean hiding the past?? everyone knows about us (e)postal. also when riis admitted he won the tour on dope last year the only ones surprised were the aso who threatened to take away his win.

 

[Mambo95]

JV needs more Euro Allies if he is going to be taken seriously by these feds

I respect his position however. just saying as I did on another thread. he has no where to go but against the grain in this good old boys club that is pro cycling on the euro continent

What is JV's relationship with David Brailsford like? Get his ear and Vaughters might have a good basis of support

You, and many others, seems to be under assumption that Vaughters is acting alone here and putting his own thoughts forward. He's not. He's the President of the AIGCP, the teams' association. He's the teams' representative and is acting on behalf of them. He already has their support - it's their views that he's promoting, not his.

 

[Boeing]

You, and many others, seems to be under assumption that Vaughters is acting alone here and putting his own thoughts forward. He's not. He's the President of the AIGCP, the teams' association. He's the teams' representative and is acting on behalf of them. He already has their support - it's their views that he's promoting, not his.

please don't put words in my mouth and thoughts in my head.

thanks for stating the obvious

 

[Berzin]

I just played a simple game with a group of 30 people, called Trader where everybody gets 5 colored chips (drawn supposedly radomely from a bag) that each have different value. You trade and in the end everyone gets a score based on the value of their 5 ending chips.

MANY are not honest in this very simple game of human nature. I cheated by simply lying about my score after the first round and won the game ultimately in the end by steeling from other players in the bonus round. Now, the game moderator kept the bin where everybody throws their chips (after reporting their score.) HOWEVER>>>> if you quickly chucked them in with a closed fist the ref so to speak cannot see your chips or may be distracted by others throwing in the chips.

Drug/ blood dope testing in cycling is much the same way >> it promotes cheating based on large loopholes.
The problem with cycling is... As long as BIG MONEY is offered it will never ever stop because there exists a human phenomenon called corruption. People sell out...

I have NO DOUBT that Garmin team has (through the Tiaa-cref years as well) not been clean and honest about anything at ALL. I dont believe anybody finishes a major Grand Tour totally clean (if the majority of the riders are heavily doped.)

While I understand the correlation you make, I think you misread the findings. There was nothing in it for the people who took part in this game to cheat, but cheat they did. If the stakes were bigger, cheating would still exist, only on the scale commiserate with the amount of money that's on the table.

I personally know quite a few amateur riders who dope. There is nothing in it for them, as they are low level riders who make no money and don't win all that much if at all. But dope they do.

I also know other amateur riders who are outside the loop in terms of acquiring doping products but would have no qualms about getting on a regimen if they could. I'm talking about your basic ham-and-egger who races on weekends and works 40 hours or more a week.

The only thing that big money adds to the mix are bigger, better orchestrated doping programs and more pressure for the riders to come through with big results.

 

[BikeCentric]

You guys have necroed an old thread and this thread was from back before we had the clinic so best to stop bumping this thing and send it back to the grave.

Might need a mod to lock it.

 

[dolophonic]

Yes let's all pray Saint J.V. can "save" this cycling ... he is our only hope.!

 

[pedaling squares]

You guys have necroed an old thread and this thread was from back before we had the clinic so best to stop bumping this thing and send it back to the grave.

Might need a mod to lock it.

Amen. We're quoting posts from a year ago!

 

[hfer07]

JV, UCI and ASO are looking for a way to "STANDARDIZE DOPE LEVELS"-that's it. -they want to establish in paper how much a rider is "allowed" to juice in order to "maintain" a "clean image" for the sport to keep getting money investers

how come JV wasn't questioned by the UCI or the ASO on the "dramatic performance by Wiggins last year" in the first place? they know better he's got the medical program running.

 

[BikeCentric]

JV, UCI and ASO are looking for a way to "STANDARDIZE DOPE LEVELS"-that's it. -they want to establish in paper how much a rider is "allowed" to juice in order to "maintain" a "clean image" for the sport to keep getting money investers

how come JV wasn't questioned by the UCI or the ASO on the "dramatic performance by Wiggins last year" in the first place? they know better he's got the medical program running.

This what we concluded a year ago on this thread but regardless this whole thread is about doping (from before the forum had The Clinic) so it should either be moved to The Clinic or locked.

 

[The_Z_man]

Vaughters is clearly a smart guy who seems to be truly on a mission to change the sport in a positive way. The question is, can and will he succeed? Does the system want to change or he is up against powerful forces that will resist these changes?

I hope he can, but I doubt he will.

Without getting into Clinic area here, what this is really about is MONEY. Forget about all the other stuff, because Christian Prudhomme and Pat McQuaid really couldn't give 2 craps about who's shooting what into their bodies. What they care about is who's getting to pocket sponsor's Euros. McQuaid thinks it should be the UCI, but let's face it, what is the UCI without the Tour. I am bracing for the flaming I'm going to get for such an American point of view, but we all know it's the key here. It's the biggest race, with the biggest amount of money on the table. The ASO has it, and the UCI wants it.

I hope somehow this will all get worked out. I'm not going to hold my breath that JV is going to iron all the problems out, but if they can start talking, that's good progress.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I just played a simple game with a group of 30 people, called Trader where everybody gets 5 colored chips (drawn supposedly radomely from a bag) that each have different value. You trade and in the end everyone gets a score based on the value of their 5 ending chips.

MANY are not honest in this very simple game of human nature. I cheated by simply lying about my score after the first round and won the game ultimately in the end by steeling from other players in the bonus round. Now, the game moderator kept the bin where everybody throws their chips (after reporting their score.) HOWEVER>>>> if you quickly chucked them in with a closed fist the ref so to speak cannot see your chips or may be distracted by others throwing in the chips.

Drug/ blood dope testing in cycling is much the same way >> it promotes cheating based on large loopholes.
The problem with cycling is... As long as BIG MONEY is offered it will never ever stop because there exists a human phenomenon called corruption. People sell out...

I have NO DOUBT that Garmin team has (through the Tiaa-cref years as well) not been clean and honest about anything at ALL. I dont believe anybody finishes a major Grand Tour totally clean (if the majority of the riders are heavily doped.)

BigBoat, I find the expreiment you did very interesting. Don't agree with the last statement tbh. DO you work in a science/medicinal area yourself?

 

[flicker]

JV, UCI and ASO are looking for a way to "STANDARDIZE DOPE LEVELS"-that's it. -they want to establish in paper how much a rider is "allowed" to juice in order to "maintain" a "clean image" for the sport to keep getting money investers

how come JV wasn't questioned by the UCI or the ASO on the "dramatic performance by Wiggins last year" in the first place? they know better he's got the medical program running.

I agree. Vaughters is doing his best to keep things on an even playing field.

Doping has been ingrained in cycling since before I was born and I am 56.

It seems like in the GTs it is a prerequisite to dope.