Can trust be restored?

[ebandit]

sorry!

Make no mistake, the IOC wants the doping. It makes the games spectacular.

sorry! i must disagree here..............the IOC do NOT want doping

but in the interests of development / business are not quite doing

as much as possible to eradicate completely

one could still have spectacular games without world records

 

[lostintime]

I'm not sure if your serious or not here, but, while the placebo effect is certainly real, pharmaceuticals are tested double blind against a placebo. If their effect doesn't significantly exceed the placebo effect then they are deemed ineffective and wont make it to the market.

To suggest you could get the same performance increase from a placebo as EPO, steroids etc is a bit laughable.

I'm not laughing, or kidding. No man can make something that is greater than the power of the mind that created it. Even "nuclear" power pales in comparison to the power of the mind that imagined it's power into existing.

The drugs are a reflection of the mind that imagined them as "powerful". To discount and turn away from one's own power .... is THE only reason why one seeks a "quick fix" of taking a drug rather than using their own given power of imagination.

All of these "solutions" offered are not solutions at all. They are simply shuffling the face of judgment and punishment. If you say , ban someone for life if they test positive, this will create cheating mechansims that are just as swift. Does man still not kill man despite a "death penalty" ? Do no people who have comitted no crime ,but are found guilty , given death penalties ? Clean riders will be given such penalties. Punitive prevention does not work , it simply is an excuse to punish.

 

[DirtyWorks]

The drugs are a reflection of the mind that imagined them as "powerful". To discount and turn away from one's own power .... is THE only reason why one seeks a "quick fix" of taking a drug rather than using their own given power of imagination.

Yeah, except oxygen vector doping actually works GREAT. The EPO/HGH combo is even better. You need to rethink the rest of that post too.

 

[DirtyWorks]

one could still have spectacular games without world records

While I agree with this in principal, in practice, the way they set up WADA means they had motivations other than limiting doping. And that's the point. It looks like an anti-doping system.

To be fair, it catches the stupidest athletes. I guess that's something. But, nothing like the way it is sold.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...they had to remove these barriers as most people can't afford to train without money coming in.

Sorry, this is wrong too. Right now, for most of IOC's sports, the majority of athletes make as much money from the sport as if they worked in a restaurant. A *tiny* minority of athletes get most of whatever money is in the sport.

There are exceptions depending on the country and sport combination.

 

[TheBean]

It all depends on what is to be "trusted".

I trust that cycling will survive, just like it did after Festina and Puerto.

I trust that the sport will still be ebautiful to watch and fun to follow.

I trust that riders will bend or break the doping rules as much as they can while trying to minimize the risk of being caught.

I trust that the testing will improve and become more sophisticated, as will the doping protocols.

I trust that the on-road behavior of cyclists will continue to be primarily classy and a display of good sportsmanship.

I trust there will be a larger scandal in another sport, soon, and the "water cooler talk" will return to steroids in baseball, terrible refs in the NFL, or something more current.

I trust that there will be many former cyclists who are discovered to be former dopers and that there will be new, younger riders who are fun to watch and cheer for.

I trust that cycling is going through a purging and thit the sport will remain one of the most popular sports in the world.

 

[ferryman]

It all depends on what is to be "trusted".

I trust that cycling will survive, just like it did after Festina and Puerto.

I trust that the sport will still be ebautiful to watch and fun to follow.

I trust that riders will bend or break the doping rules as much as they can while trying to minimize the risk of being caught.

I trust that the testing will improve and become more sophisticated, as will the doping protocols.

I trust that the on-road behavior of cyclists will continue to be primarily classy and a display of good sportsmanship.

I trust there will be a larger scandal in another sport, soon, and the "water cooler talk" will return to steroids in baseball, terrible refs in the NFL, or something more current.

I trust that there will be many former cyclists who are discovered to be former dopers and that there will be new, younger riders who are fun to watch and cheer for.

I trust that cycling is going through a purging and thit the sport will remain one of the most popular sports in the world.

Good post. I feel your passion for the sport from it and I hope you are correct going forward.

 

[ElChingon]

I trust things will return to normal

 

[DirtyWorks]

I trust that cycling will survive, just like it did after Festina and Puerto.

Yup. Cleanest peloton ever. Oh, wait they said that AFTER Festina and Puerto too.

I trust that riders will bend or break the doping rules as much as they can while trying to minimize the risk of being caught.

I trust that the testing will improve and become more sophisticated, as will the doping protocols.

This is a pet peeve, not a specific response to TheBean. This is the narrative the IOC/UCI relies on to suppress the corruption and dope enabling.
Understand the IOC and UCI are at minimum enabling it. They built a whole 7x TdF myth!

If things don't change, they'll p!ss on your back and tell you it's raining real soon now. And they might not change.

 

[Archibald]

sorry! i must disagree here..............the IOC do NOT want doping

actually, the IOC and all other governing bodies do not want to catch the dopers as it has a negative impact on their sports/events.
no one wants bad press for their sport, simples...

 

[Roude Leiw]

I trust things will return to normal

Isn't the current situation the "new normal"?

 

[ElChingon]

Isn't the current situation the "new normal"?

No, its in a chaotic state now with every single rider looking behind their back even if they have nothing to hide. Normal will be when they can do as they want and are living it up as they did pre 1998.

 

[MarkvW]

Can the disbelief be re-suspended?

 

[Roude Leiw]

No, its in a chaotic state now with every single rider looking behind their back even if they have nothing to hide. Normal will be when they can do as they want and are living it up as they did pre 1998.

That will never return, they were not really doping free then, but as opposed to today, no one wanted to her from their heroes doping. The www brought a fundamental change to this, with people openly questioning and journalists picking up and writing about it.

Hence me calling this situation the new normal.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

I'm not the one who is deluded. If you think professional sports is about anything but entertainment, you're dreaming.

It starts with fake college sports which abuse the athletes, leave the dereft of an education and all to prime the pump for the boosters. How else do you justify a professor making $100K while the coaches make millions.

The UCI has been completely co-opted by the ASO who drive the entire sport based on what the entertainment value is.

FWIW, I'd prefer the sport without doping as the human stories are more compelling but the value as entertainment doesn't change just the results.

Earlier in the thread lostintime said that the power of drugs comes from the belief in them and that removing the belief is the solution. How would you do that? (assuming it is true, which I dispute as the tests indicate they have actual performance value)

Your irrational ramble makes no sense whatsoever. Any professional sport is about competition. The goal is to win. Unfortunately too many athletes cheat to do that. How is winning by cheating entertainment?

Sure there may be some entertainment value in a sporting event full of cheats, but once the cheating is exposed it devalues sport, it denigrates the athletes, and provides no entertainment value whatsoever.

For example would you go back and watch tape of the 1999 Tour de Farce, LA's first win for its entertainment value. I doubt it and if you did you would be daft.

To suggest that College sports are fake is aburd. I played level I basketball for three years at University and I can assure you we did not go onto the court to "entertain" the fans. We went out there to win. If the fans got some entertainment value from that it was incidental.

 

[Aleajactaest]

For example would you go back and watch tape of the 1999 Tour de Farce, LA's first win for its entertainment value. I doubt it and if you did you would be daft.

That sentence makes no sense. If you are asking if I watched it for the entertainment value. Yes. Why do you watch?
\

To suggest that College sports are fake is aburd. I played level I basketball for three years at University and I can assure you we did not go onto the court to "entertain" the fans. We went out there to win. If the fans got some entertainment value from that it was incidental.

Sports which provide no entertainment value make no money. Sports that cost schools money are support by those that do. If none of your sports programs pay for themselves, you soon have no sport. Colleges no longer subsidize sports for their value in rounding out students.

That's just how it works.

I don't know what sport you "played" but did it make money?

 

[FitSsikS]

Can the disbelief be re-suspended?

If not, they can cheat and re-suspend it using piano wire.

 

[FitSsikS]

Can the disbelief be re-suspended?

If not, they can cheat by re-suspending it with piano wire.