Cancellara Hour Record Attempt

[ak-zaaf]

nope.. thats only eight.. you said fifteen...

I'll add Vino, he counts for 7

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

The main issue is that the UCI have wrecked the Hour by splitting it in two.

I disagree. What I think the UCI wrecked is not giving credence to the aero "human performance" aspect as an equally impressive record.

I do think Canc is the one guy that could top 50km on a track bike. I think a few more riders maybe. But 15? No.

Keep in mind two things about Rominger's 1994 season. First, he was focused that year on the Tour, having finished 2nd in 1993 and challenging Mig, but he crashed out on stage 2. Second is I'm not trying to trash the guy, I liked his riding style a lot, but consider the era, and that he was a Ferrari client, it's heavily suspect he was charged during his attempts, which likely helped cut into this needed training focus.

As I said on page 1, Sosenko's distance is tainted to many, and he's about to be banned for life from doping.

 

[Anonymous]

i wonder if there are any of the new sky guys that may be tempted.. if they do they will have access to a damn fine velodrome and lots of very experienced coaches whenever they want..

 

[ak-zaaf]

i wonder if there are any of the new sky guys that may be tempted.. if they do they will have access to a damn fine velodrome and lots of very experienced coaches whenever they want..

'Coaches'....LOL ;p

 

[Anonymous]

'Coaches'....LOL ;p

wassup with coaches? you dont think team sky will have access to the entire british coaching system if they want it then..

 

[derailleur]

I think the conditioning part of it is not going to be the difference. Look at what he did at the Worlds this year, without any sort of outlandish preparation:

"Cancellara...averaged a speed of just over 51km/h for the 49.8km course which he completed in 57min 55sec. Larsson was at 1:27 with Martin stopping the clock 2:30 behind the Swiss."
http://www.bikeradar.com/racing/rac...world-championships-elite-mens-time-trial-650

He was just two minutes short of an hour, and was a full tick over 50 kmh. And that was on a twisty, hilly, windy, lumpy course.

Put him on a modern TT bike and he could probably beat 50 after dinner tonight. For the HR he'll have to ride non-aero marchinery but he'll get a clear, smooth line the entire time.

I think it might be good strategy not to lock into one position. Maybe take a couple of gears out there and occasionally hop off the saddle.

And, if he's willing to train extensively and exclusively for it, and then "ruin" himself for a month or more, he might beat the record by several km/h.

 

[Monty Dog]

Didn't Cancellara make noises about doing the pursuit for the Olympics? - he may have done a track trial and if he couldn't hold it for just over 4 minutes, what makes it possible to do it for an hour? Having read Boardman and Hutchinson's books, they talk about the last 15 minutes being right on the threshold of pain - I'm not sure Cancellara has ever had to ride that hard - ever. I also understand that his size and weight could be a disadvantage to overcome the centrifugal forces and hold his line and position.

 

[St. Elia]

I don't think weight is as much an issues as -it is on the road, it's an issue but not compared to riding on a hilly course. Also if he is riding at threshold, it's the same pain that you or I would feel if we road at our threshold. Yes for sure he would dig deeper at the end and really push for the last 15 min or so but your body can only do so much and if you dig too deep at the beginning your body will shut down. The only difference between the pros like Cancelllara and a trained Amateur is he is "only" generating about 500 watts avg for an hour and we would be lucky to be able to hold 300.

Also the aero stuff does make a big difference, I remember that a disk wheel was said to shave off a few min on a 40km course, but that you had to ride it at 40km/h to make it advantageous. Imagine the advantage you would get at 50km/h? not to mention bars and wheel and frame and all of the little extras. I think it would be great to see him go for it and I think the UCI did the right thing other wise us punters would still be arguing about who was the best and how this guys wasn't as good as so and so cuz he had this thing a magigy. Have to compare like to like. I do disagree with what the UCI is ding on the road with the weight limit and postion on the bike but that is another matter

 

[blackcat]

I think the conditioning part of it is not going to be the difference. Look at what he did at the Worlds this year, without any sort of outlandish preparation:

"Cancellara...averaged a speed of just over 51km/h for the 49.8km course which he completed in 57min 55sec. Larsson was at 1:27 with Martin stopping the clock 2:30 behind the Swiss."
http://www.bikeradar.com/racing/rac...world-championships-elite-mens-time-trial-650

He was just two minutes short of an hour, and was a full tick over 50 kmh. And that was on a twisty, hilly, windy, lumpy course.

Put him on a modern TT bike and he could probably beat 50 after dinner tonight. For the HR he'll have to ride non-aero marchinery but he'll get a clear, smooth line the entire time.

I think it might be good strategy not to lock into one position. Maybe take a couple of gears out there and occasionally hop off the saddle.

And, if he's willing to train extensively and exclusively for it, and then "ruin" himself for a month or more, he might beat the record by several km/h.

you dont ruin yourself anymore with the recovery gear. A one hour effort at the end of a Tour de France for a yellow jersey is gonna be redlined also.

 

[Echoes]

Here's what Merckx said about the Hour record, in Plus d'un tour dans mon sac, his diary from the 1972 season (éditions Art & voyages):

Le record de l’heure exige un effort total permanent, intense, qui n’est comparable à aucun autre. Tout au long de cette heure inoubliable – la plus longue de ma carrière – je n’ai connu aucun moment de faiblesse, mais jamais l’effort ne m’a paru facile. Aucune comparaison avec une course contre la montre. Ici, on peut se relâcher, changer de braquet et de rythme, s’accorder ne fût-ce que quelques brefs instants de répit.

My translation:

The Hour record demands a constant and intense effort which nothing compares. Throughout this unforgettable hour - the longest in my career - I've never had a weak moment, but the effort never seemed easy to me. No comparison with a time-trial. Here, you can relax, change gear and rhythm, give yourself rests, though only for brief moments.

 

[Anonymous]

I think the conditioning part of it is not going to be the difference. Look at what he did at the Worlds this year, without any sort of outlandish preparation:

"Cancellara...averaged a speed of just over 51km/h for the 49.8km course which he completed in 57min 55sec. He was just two minutes short of an hour, and was a full tick over 50 kmh. And that was on a twisty, hilly, windy, lumpy course.

Put him on a modern TT bike and he could probably beat 50 after dinner tonight.

but you cant compare the two.. there are obvious technical and positianal differences but you cant compare a lumpy course to a flat one, the hills allow burst of effort, but also periods of rest.. you simply cannot compare that to maintaining one solid relentless effort for an hour..

as for wind.. it blows both ways...

 

[derailleur]

but you cant compare the two.. there are obvious technical and positianal differences but you cant compare a lumpy course to a flat one, the hills allow burst of effort, but also periods of rest.. you simply cannot compare that to maintaining one solid relentless effort for an hour..

as for wind.. it blows both ways...

Well then, do it out on a TT course with a common start/finish line.

He was two minutes away from blowing up the record; he could have coasted the last 200m after the end of the race, then sat there mugging for the cameras for a minute and a half waiting for the hour to expire, and tallied 50 km/h. The only question, energetically, would be if the start and finish lines were at different altitudes, or the wind followed him around the route. The bicycle and the funny hat are a definite advantage.

As for the hills, in my experience they are at best energy neutral, and more frequently a detriment; I've never heard anyone (until now) say they make you faster. Bring a big gear onto the track and stand into it once in a while to switch to type-II fibers, then "rest" as you spin a lower gear back down to cruising speed. Think also of the turns. Out on the road you brake. You can never get braking energy back. And on the road there's suboptimal rolling resistance from the varying surface conditions.

I see no way a track is slower than a looping TT course on a day with consistent winds.

 

[Anonymous]

Well then, do it out on a TT course with a common start/finish line.

He was two minutes away from blowing up the record; he could have coasted the last 200m after the end of the race, then sat there mugging for the cameras for a minute and a half waiting for the hour to expire, and tallied 50 km/h. The only question, energetically, would be if the start and finish lines were at different altitudes, or the wind followed him around the route. The bicycle and the funny hat are a definite advantage.

As for the hills, in my experience they are at best energy neutral, and more frequently a detriment; I've never heard anyone (until now) say they make you faster. Bring a big gear onto the track and stand into it once in a while to switch to type-II fibers, then "rest" as you spin a lower gear back down to cruising speed. Think also of the turns. Out on the road you brake. You can never get braking energy back. And on the road there's suboptimal rolling resistance from the varying surface conditions.

I see no way a track is slower than a looping TT course on a day with consistent winds.

so you not planning on riding a fixie for this hour attempt then?

 

[davidg]

Well then, do it out on a TT course with a common start/finish line.

Your arguments are quite academic. The hour record has to be done on a track, on a bike conforming to quite strict rules.

As for comparing the two efforts, dig out some power curves for a pursuit and look at the nature of the effort. Not constant at all. Then work out how many changes in power you will get for an hour, when you hit a banking every 9 seconds.

The other thing that is being omitted, is that anyone who has at least considered the hour record, will have done some trials. And walked away understanding just how hard it is.

 

[twothirds]

Well then, do it out on a TT course with a common start/finish line.

He was two minutes away from blowing up the record; he could have coasted the last 200m after the end of the race, then sat there mugging for the cameras for a minute and a half waiting for the hour to expire, and tallied 50 km/h. The only question, energetically, would be if the start and finish lines were at different altitudes, or the wind followed him around the route. The bicycle and the funny hat are a definite advantage.

As for the hills, in my experience they are at best energy neutral, and more frequently a detriment; I've never heard anyone (until now) say they make you faster. Bring a big gear onto the track and stand into it once in a while to switch to type-II fibers, then "rest" as you spin a lower gear back down to cruising speed. Think also of the turns. Out on the road you brake. You can never get braking energy back. And on the road there's suboptimal rolling resistance from the varying surface conditions.

I see no way a track is slower than a looping TT course on a day with consistent winds.

You've obviously never raced on the track

 

[Anonymous]

i think people should go away and watch the flying scotsman, and the documentary on chris boardmans hour attempt before even posting in this thread to be honest.. there seems some niavaty as to what is involved..

if it was that simple, cancellera would have already done it

 

[Echoes]

but you cant compare the two.. there are obvious technical and positianal differences but you cant compare a lumpy course to a flat one, the hills allow burst of effort, but also periods of rest.. you simply cannot compare that to maintaining one solid relentless effort for an hour..

Exactly. I think it can be easier to ride on a lumpy route than on a flat track as long as the hill are not too steep and too long.

There you can have descents in which you can be freewheeling.

You can't compare a TT to the Hour record attempt, even with the same equipment.

And I agree that if it was that simple Cancellara would have already gone for it.

 

[Echoes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-U0gWRhIh4

 

[Cerberus]

Exactly. I think it can be easier to ride on a lumpy route than on a flat track as long as the hill are not too steep and too long.

There you can have descents in which you can be freewheeling.

Sure it does, but it doesn't even out. It's always harder on a lumpy route. Air resistance increases exponentially with your speed, and you have to increase your speed by significantly more going downhill than you lose going uphill to make it up, because you spend more time going uphill. If the hill is steep enough to make you go half as fast, you'd have to teleport across the downhill section to make up you loss. It is never (under realistic circumstances) better to ride a lumpy route and a flat one and it's never better to have wind than no wind on a circuit. Unless of cause you're somehow shielded from the headwind of cause.

And I agree that if it was that simple Cancellara would have already gone for it.

That's a valid point, but it's about the equipment, and possibly other factors I don't know about. It's not because the track is flat.

 

[Echoes]

Sure it does, but it doesn't even out. It's always harder on a lumpy route. Air resistance increases exponentially with your speed, and you have to increase your speed by significantly more going downhill than you lose going uphill to make it up, because you spend more time going uphill. If the hill is steep enough to make you go half as fast, you'd have to teleport across the downhill section to make up you loss. It is never (under realistic circumstances) better to ride a lumpy route and a flat one and it's never better to have wind than no wind on a circuit. Unless of cause you're somehow shielded from the headwind of cause.

Well I was just talking of routes where hills were NOT that steep. Of course if you have to climb the Mur de Huy in a time trial, my point is just nonsensical.

I'm really convinced what I've just said was right. For example I've got friends who made Paris-Roubaix and told me it was the hardest one-day race of all, much harder than Flanders because the end is completely flat, which means that between the cobble sections you don't have places where you can recover because there's no descent there.

And just take a look at my quote from Merckx on the preceding page.

 

[Cerberus]

Well I was just talking of routes where hills were NOT that steep. Of course if you have to climb the Mur de Huy in a time trial, my point is just nonsensical.

That's really just a matter of degree. The steeper the hills the worse, but I see no reason it would ever be an advantage. Why would it be? You get greater average air resistance and doing intervals harder than going at a steedy pace if you want to maintain the same average speed.

I'm really convinced what I've just said was right. For example I've got friends who made Paris-Roubaix and told me it was the hardest one-day race of all, much harder than Flanders because the end is completely flat, which means that between the cobble sections you don't have places where you can recover because there's no descent there.

And just take a look at my quote from Merckx on the preceding page.

You're conflating easier with faster. It might be easier because you can rest going downhill, but resting downhill slows you down. You might have to rest going downhill, because curves prevent you from going faster, but you still lose time. In principle there's nothing preventing you from doing intervals in an hour attempt, essentially taking rests at times. The problem is that it's not efficient. Hills aren't an advantage because they let you rest. They're a disadvantage because they force you to essentially do intervals, which is an inefficient way of obtaining a high average speed.

If you don't believe me ask your friends. I'm fairly sure that (almost) any professional cyclist will tell you that it's harder going at the same speed in hilly terrain than in flat country.

 

[Polish]

Track

The Hour Record is a Track Record,
so it helps if you have experience riding on the velodrome like Eddy or Chris....

Eddy spun a 52X14 fixed gear for his record

Boardman mashed a 54x13 fixed gear for his record

How about Spartacus...???