Cancellara should leave leopard trek

[isayic]

They should get some guys in.

They have a lot of guys but Kim Anderson lacks the skills that Bjarne Riis has to lead a team, to motivate the riders and coaching them and he demands a lot during training camps. But he also stays with his riders when problems occure.
Leopard doesn't need other riders they need another Bjarne Riis. But there is only one. The guys who went to Leopard maybe thought that they can get top results with less hard work but without giving 100% it's impossible.

 

[ergmonkey]

There are a few facts in your post that are not true. Riis flew to Spain at the end of the first week of the Vuelta. Andy and O'Grady were sent back home after stage 9. Cancellara quit the race in stage 19. I perfectly recall Fabian setting the pace on the way up the Alto da Cobertoria in the stage that finished at Cotobello where Fränk was second after Euskaltel rider Mikel Nieve. That stage was on the Monday in the last week. He was 3rd in ITT 2 days after. He abandoned in stage 19, missing the last mountain stage to Bola del Mundo. You may question how hard he rode, but he did not quit early to avoid meeting Riis.

You're right--I mis-rembered the chronology of Riis arriving and Cancellara refusing to communicate.

Instead, Fabian avoided meeting/speaking with Riis at all after Fabian abruptly quit the Vuelta and broke his promise to ride for the team throughout the stage. After the stage Riis and Cancellara were expected to meet.

Cyclingnews coverage at the time:

"The relationship between Fabian Cancellara and his Saxo Bank team seems to have worsened after the Swiss rider unexpectedly dropped out of the Vuelta a España on Friday afternoon, only 20km into the stage.

“Everyone on the team has worked their *** off in the last few weeks. It's just not OK. That is not how we do things,” directeur sportif Bradley McGee told Sporten.tv2.dk. “But if he has to do it, he has to do it. He is the one who must be able to sleep at night. I just feel sorry for him.

“I want an explanation from Fabian and I think he owes an explanation to his teammates, as to why he left here without even saying goodbye,” he added.

McGee told the Reuters news agency that “We are extremely disappointed with Fabian's exit. It is not the way a great champion should behave. He decided to get off the bike for still unknown reasons. He hurried to the airport to catch a plane, and now he has turned off his cell phone.”

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I don't know what counts as monuments elsewhere, but convention says Boonen has 5, Cancellara 4

my bad... quite right you are. I meant 1st-3rd placings or podiums, not wins.

 

[greenedge]

were Pegasus after him at start? jks

It's because he does not have Breschel. Admittedly Leopard have basically the same classics team but yeah they need a good classic sportiff. Teams he might go to HTC, or maybe a French/ European team.

 

[Squares]

He could have won this years race. But threw a hissy fit. He should've caught the front group and then dropped them all on the cobbles like last year. He must not have the form of last year and felt he couldn't do that but todays 2nd place to me shows he could've.

I watched the coverage after reading the CN live coverage and saw when Cancellara lost the race. He was closing the gap to the front group and was about 40 seconds down when he started asking Ballan, Hushov, and Flecha to help. Then he sat up to whine about them not working and the gap went up by at least 27 seconds in a kilometer. He was stupid to think that Hushov (with 2 teammates in the break), Ballan (with 1 teammate in the break) or Flecha (with at least 1 in the break) would help him in any way.

That is the moment that he lost the race.

He could have driven the final distance to close down the gap, recovered and caught his breath in the break, and then attacked to close the gaps to anyone left out front.

Instead, he whined about not getting help and lost the race.

 

[luckyboy]

my bad... quite right you are. I meant 1st-3rd placings or podiums, not wins.

Looks like he's in the right place if he wants podiums

 

[Yeahright]

Cancellara should leave leopard trek. A big reason why he lost both classics and had to do the work by himself was because he had no helpers in both RVV and PR. Leopard trek were non existent. He had to do it all himself. Do you think he regrets leaving Bjarne? Should of he chosen a better team? Do you think he is already thinking about another team?

He lost today because of the negative riding of Hushovd and Ballan in particular. Garmin were hugely fortunate that VS was able to win it on his own. Tactically the race was a shambles for Garmin and I could not believe that Hushovd and Ballan let Cancellara tow them to within 30 seconds of the lead break and not once did they come through for a turn when it was obviously in their interests for Thor to be up in that front bunch...pathetic riding and i am glad that FC rode away from them at the end. My respect for Fab went up again after the crap he had to put up with today.

As to LT as a team, yeah they are not super strong but PR is a tough race and things can go bad quickly, ask Quickstep. BMC looked good all day but they where nowhere at the business end of the race with the exception of Ballan who also pretty much did it on his own.

 

[Yeahright]

I watched the coverage after reading the CN live coverage and saw when Cancellara lost the race. He was closing the gap to the front group and was about 40 seconds down when he started asking Ballan, Hushov, and Flecha to help. Then he sat up to whine about them not working and the gap went up by at least 27 seconds in a kilometer. He was stupid to think that Hushov (with 2 teammates in the break), Ballan (with 1 teammate in the break) or Flecha (with at least 1 in the break) would help him in any way.

That is the moment that he lost the race.

He could have driven the final distance to close down the gap, recovered and caught his breath in the break, and then attacked to close the gaps to anyone left out front.

Instead, he whined about not getting help and lost the race.

Absolute rubbish. What he had was essentially three team leaders on his wheel, all who should have had both incentive and determination to get across to the break. The guys the others had up in the break were there for one purpose...to assist the likes of Hushovd and Flecha once they had got across, not to win the race overall. It was disgraceful for Hush and Flech to expect Canellara to tow their sorry asses across to the break without them taking even one lap on the front.

I was glad to see him sit up. I admire the fact that he would rather risk losing the race than allow the others a free ride, only to have Hushovd possibly outsprint him at the finish.

It was great to see VS take the win, he deserved it. Fab showed he is the best by still being able to ride the others off his wheel.

I have to laugh at the hate on here just because he talks himself up. Compared with Merckx and Hinault he is a picture of modesty. Tall poppy syndrome is rampant on here.

 

[luckyboy]

He lost today because of the negative riding of Hushovd and Ballan in particular. Garmin were hugely fortunate that VS was able to win it on his own. Tactically the race was a shambles for Garmin and I could not believe that Hushovd and Ballan let Cancellara tow them to within 30 seconds of the lead break and not once did they come through for a turn when it was obviously in their interests for Thor to be up in that front bunch...pathetic riding and i am glad that FC rode away from them at the end.

If Cance had a helper of Van Summeren's calibre then the result might have been different.

I can understand why Ballan, Flecha, Hushovd etc. didn't work seeing as their teams had strong cobbled riders up the road with Van Summeren, Hayman, Quinziato..

Cancellara didn't have anyone in that position.

At about 20km (just before Carrefour de l'Arbre) to go Garmin had another guy working in that group (Vanmarcke was it?), and Ballan + Cance were sitting in.

I think Hushovd definitely had every right to sit on once Van Summeren got away from Rast, Bak, Quinziato etc.

Sure he lost the race for himself, and it isn't really in the spirit of things, but Garmin's strength in depth finally paid off.

Btw I'm not a Garmin fan at all. Just downloaded the race and looked at the ending again now.

 

[UpTheRoad]

Absolute rubbish. What he had was essentially three team leaders on his wheel, all who should have had both incentive and determination to get across to the break. The guys the others had up in the break were there for one purpose...to assist the likes of Hushovd and Flecha once they had got across, not to win the race overall. It was disgraceful for Hush and Flech to expect Canellara to tow their sorry asses across to the break without them taking even one lap on the front.

I was glad to see him sit up. I admire the fact that he would rather risk losing the race than allow the others a free ride, only to have Hushovd possibly outsprint him at the finish.

It was great to see VS take the win, he deserved it. Fab showed he is the best by still being able to ride the others off his wheel.

I have to laugh at the hate on here just because he talks himself up. Compared with Merckx and Hinault he is a picture of modesty. Tall poppy syndrome is rampant on here.

Hushovd, Flecha and Ballan should not have worked, even if they had domestiques up the road.

Those three could have worked to join the leaders, but you cannot tow Cancellara up, too. His team missed the break and since he was the strongest rider, you cannot give him an assist.

While it was not the best thing to do in terms of exciting racing, Garmin, Sky and BMC did the right thing in letting FC do all the work. He also did the right thing and sit up for a bit.

 

[Yeahright]

Hushovd, Flecha and Ballan should not have worked, even if they had domestiques up the road.

Those three could have worked to join the leaders, but you cannot tow Cancellara up, too. His team missed the break and since he was the strongest rider, you cannot give him an assist.

While it was not the best thing to do in terms of exciting racing, Garmin, Sky and BMC did the right thing in letting FC do all the work. He also did the right thing and sit up for a bit.

I respect your opinion but I disagree (I do agree with you on the sitting up though). VS was in the break to assist Thor at the end of the race. There was no guarantee that VS was going to win the race at the time Cancellara was working to bridge the gap as at that time there were still around 7 riders in the front group. Yes it worked out okay for Garmin in the end, fortunately for them. But what if Rast or Bak had won? Garmin would have looked stupid. Then there would have been a situation where Garmin had got their top rider (and top sprinter left in the business end of the race) to within 30 seconds of the break, but because he was unwilling or on team orders not to do any work, failed to get across. Essentially Vaughters was unwilling to gamble that Hushovd could hang in and outsprint Cancellara at the end so he took the far riskier option of hoping that VS would deliver.

It worked for him luckily and I don't mean to detract from Van Summeren's win at all. He rode a bloody good race and thoroughly deserved the win.

 

[theswordsman]

A few days ago in one of the threads, people laughed at all the guys who said they thought they could make top five or top ten. But I imagine there are guys not named Cancellara who are really happy to have earned their placings today.

If L-T's strategy last Sunday and today was to have Cancellara work with his top competitors, maybe that was flawed. Maybe people built him up so much last year that he thought he deserved names like Superman and Gladiator. Maybe he could have treated guys differently in past races to make them willing to cooperate with him. What has he said or done the past eight days to encourage guys from other teams to ride with him?

Then there's his fitness. He said that when he's at 100%, he's unbeatable. So why wasn't he? Was his race schedule wrong? Last year he took a break after P-R even though Riis wanted him to keep going. He said he was worn out. Does that mean he hasn't peaked yet for the Spring?

What about equipment? The guys at Eurosport laughed because the first minute of live coverage had him changing bikes. But how does the Trek compare to the Roubaix (I think that's what he rode last year?) "Experts" at Velonews & a British site said there was nothing to the Gold-Race advantage, talking short Time Trials and aerodynamics, and not wondering why Schleck would have used them on a TdF mountain stage. On a long day like today, how much of a benefit would it have taken to make the difference?

All I'll say on the subject of Riis was that I read an article after that race where Fabian said it was Riis who told him to take off when he did and Time Trial it - Cancellara didn't know how it might play out at the time.

Leopard-Trek has some talkers. Andy Schleck said for months (of off-season) that he's the obvious favorite to win the Tour de France. People printed it every time. But I haven't read once that he's said it since the season started, because there's not a day when it's believable. Did anyone watch Pais Vasco and see something that made them believe he's better than the guys who finished ahead of him?

If Cancellara wants guys on other teams to work with him 51 weeks from now, he needs to start working with other guys now. No one wants him to sail off at the end and get ninety percent of the publicity.

 

[luckyboy]

I think with respect to Rast and Bak, Van Summeren had greater pedigree on the cobbles before today.

It was a bit of a gamble and he could have lost, but if they all worked together and it was Cance vs Hushovd vs Ballan, Garmin still could have lost.

 

[M Sport]

Leopard trek were non existent. He had to do it all himself. Do you think he regrets leaving Bjarne? Should of he chosen a better team? Do you think he is already thinking about another team?

At the time I wondered how much thought he had put into the move to Leopard, it's one thing to follow your mates to a team so you enjoy your job, it's quite another to give up the chance of another two monument wins.

Had he been riding for Saxo I am sure he would have won at least one of these last two races.

I wonder now how well Leopard are equiped to ride a GT. Will Andy handle the pressure by himself? He's no Fabian.

 

[Ryaguas]

Absolute rubbish. What he had was essentially three team leaders on his wheel, all who should have had both incentive and determination to get across to the break. The guys the others had up in the break were there for one purpose...to assist the likes of Hushovd and Flecha once they had got across, not to win the race overall. It was disgraceful for Hush and Flech to expect Canellara to tow their sorry asses across to the break without them taking even one lap on the front.

This is BS...
Those leaders put ppl in the break not only for that... the other goal was to make Leotard-sheet to work their a#ses off if They couldn't put ppl in the early break... well... Leotard missed the early break so... the c0cky c0ck had to work his ar#e off until He started whinning like a girl... "why aren't you helping me? You are a wheelsuckers..."
One thing was what He said today after PR... but what was He saying all this week? He digged his own grave... love it how Ballan, Thor and Flecha "spitted" at the c0cky c0ck's face "Do you want to win? Well We have ppl in the break and you will have to pull alone! beotch!"
Now Where is the superman? where is the gladiator?? Where is the guy who was going to ride off from the peloton and win??
HA! HA! HA!
Seriously... How can you say that Thor, Ballan and Flecha should have pulled having that pr!ck in their wheels being the biggest favorite?
It's the same as last year... When that Pr!ck went who did help Tommeke?
NOBODY... NO ONE! Why? cuz Tommeke was the biggest favorite and if He wanted to win He had to go for it and have worked his ar$e off...

A few days ago in one of the threads, people laughed at all the guys who said they thought they could make top five or top ten. But I imagine there are guys not named Cancellara who are really happy to have earned their placings today.

If L-T's strategy last Sunday and today was to have Cancellara work with his top competitors, maybe that was flawed. Maybe people built him up so much last year that he thought he deserved names like Superman and Gladiator. Maybe he could have treated guys differently in past races to make them willing to cooperate with him. What has he said or done the past eight days to encourage guys from other teams to ride with him?

Then there's his fitness. He said that when he's at 100%, he's unbeatable. So why wasn't he? Was his race schedule wrong? Last year he took a break after P-R even though Riis wanted him to keep going. He said he was worn out. Does that mean he hasn't peaked yet for the Spring?

What about equipment? The guys at Eurosport laughed because the first minute of live coverage had him changing bikes. But how does the Trek compare to the Roubaix (I think that's what he rode last year?) "Experts" at Velonews & a British site said there was nothing to the Gold-Race advantage, talking short Time Trials and aerodynamics, and not wondering why Schleck would have used them on a TdF mountain stage. On a long day like today, how much of a benefit would it have taken to make the difference?

All I'll say on the subject of Riis was that I read an article after that race where Fabian said it was Riis who told him to take off when he did and Time Trial it - Cancellara didn't know how it might play out at the time.

Leopard-Trek has some talkers. Andy Schleck said for months (of off-season) that he's the obvious favorite to win the Tour de France. People printed it every time. But I haven't read once that he's said it since the season started, because there's not a day when it's believable. Did anyone watch Pais Vasco and see something that made them believe he's better than the guys who finished ahead of him?

If Cancellara wants guys on other teams to work with him 51 weeks from now, he needs to start working with other guys now. No one wants him to sail off at the end and get ninety percent of the publicity.

+111111 as always John nailed it pretty much!

 

[MD FACG FACP]

He chose LeOPArd--TREk because of the bond he had with the riders who left Saxo Bank. He knew the classics team wouldn't be that strong before he signed.

I think this is just your pitch for him to join BMC. I remember you basically busting a nut over the thought when it was decided he was leaving SB.

BMC wouldn't want him they have Taylor Phinney greatest classics rider ever.

 

[Cimber]

still I think cancellara underestimated that not having a strong team would cost him this much.

+1
I think he thought "superman" doesnt need a team.

I dont think he will leave Leopard though, but I think he will demand a stronger team next year. And i am sure they will have a much stronger cobble-team next year - its not as if they lack money after all.

I hope this years cobble classics have taught Cancellara alot.

 

[Cimber]

Also talking about karma ... this will win him the WC this year!

Wouldn't that be epic. Even in Riis's home country.

Actually he has stated that he might skip the WC TT to concentrate on the RR. that might be a mistake this year though as it looks to be a sprinter's WC. But ofc he can pull a last km attack as he has dont before in the Tour.

 

[Cimber]

I might refer you two gentlemen to this:

Well he I sure Nygaard forced him to be polite after the RVV outbursts he made

 

[thehog]

A few days ago in one of the threads, people laughed at all the guys who said they thought they could make top five or top ten. But I imagine there are guys not named Cancellara who are really happy to have earned their placings today.

If L-T's strategy last Sunday and today was to have Cancellara work with his top competitors, maybe that was flawed. Maybe people built him up so much last year that he thought he deserved names like Superman and Gladiator. Maybe he could have treated guys differently in past races to make them willing to cooperate with him. What has he said or done the past eight days to encourage guys from other teams to ride with him?

Then there's his fitness. He said that when he's at 100%, he's unbeatable. So why wasn't he? Was his race schedule wrong? Last year he took a break after P-R even though Riis wanted him to keep going. He said he was worn out. Does that mean he hasn't peaked yet for the Spring?

What about equipment? The guys at Eurosport laughed because the first minute of live coverage had him changing bikes. But how does the Trek compare to the Roubaix (I think that's what he rode last year?) "Experts" at Velonews & a British site said there was nothing to the Gold-Race advantage, talking short Time Trials and aerodynamics, and not wondering why Schleck would have used them on a TdF mountain stage. On a long day like today, how much of a benefit would it have taken to make the difference?

All I'll say on the subject of Riis was that I read an article after that race where Fabian said it was Riis who told him to take off when he did and Time Trial it - Cancellara didn't know how it might play out at the time.

Leopard-Trek has some talkers. Andy Schleck said for months (of off-season) that he's the obvious favorite to win the Tour de France. People printed it every time. But I haven't read once that he's said it since the season started, because there's not a day when it's believable. Did anyone watch Pais Vasco and see something that made them believe he's better than the guys who finished ahead of him?

If Cancellara wants guys on other teams to work with him 51 weeks from now, he needs to start working with other guys now. No one wants him to sail off at the end and get ninety percent of the publicity.

Good post. If Riis was still his DS you can imagine the talk into the earpiece… “Sit tight Fabian. Wait. Let them chance the front markers. Wait. Steady. Wait. Let Thor take the lead on the cobbles. Make him work. Don’t come out of his slip stream. Wait. Patience wins Paris-Roubaix. Ok When you catch the front markers and not before 7km to go play your cards. Attack hard once. Thor and Ballan will follow. Attack again. Then one more time and by then you should on your own. If not you can ride anyone off your wheel with 7km to the finish.”

Cancellera was stupid. He played his hand with 40km to go. After that what was left that he could do? Nothing. He tried this card trick last year and won. No one was going to fall for it again. Last year Boonen was the only one who would chase. This time one was going to let Cancellera to just ride away. Riis never would have let this happen. He would have dreamt up a new tactic. It was plain stupid knowing you didn’t have a team to attack 40km out! What was all that about?? Especially after Flanders. Canc knew no one was going to help him so he tried it again? Strange. Very poor riding. Just plain stupid.

 

[roundabout]

Quality trolling, Hoagie.

But ok, i'll indulge you.

Who was going to catch the front group for Cancellara's benefit?

Uh-uh.

 

[Cimber]

I
I also think that Cancellara should try hilly classics now as he has nothing left to prove on the cobbles. However i doubt that the team management would agree.

I think he will do Amstel this year. So he might get his revenge sunday.

 

[kukiniloa]

jumping in here because during the E3 Prijs I got criticized for pointing out that Stuey O'Grady's presence helped Cancellara out. Well, maybe it wasn't necessary for C to win in that race, but it did help. And it would have been perhaps critically helpful today...

 

[Francois the Postman]

Just a general reminder that this section of the forum is not the place for dope discussions [yes, some posts are gone].

 

[thehog]

Quality trolling, Hoagie.

But ok, i'll indulge you.

Who was going to catch the front group for Cancellara's benefit?

Uh-uh.

Huh? The other 50 or so riders who wanted to win. With Cancellara still in the main group everyone believed they could win so they would have chased to put themselves in that position. With Fabian out off the front no one was going to do anything other than chase him down and follow.

You saw how it played out. If Cancellera had his time again do you think he'd try the same tactic?