Cancellara

[Anonymous]

Well someones gonna say it so it may as well be me...

another unbelievable time..

personally i just think hes a freak of nature but im sure others think otherwise

 

[Anonymous]

Well someones gonna say it so it may as well be me...

another unbelievable time..

personally i just think hes a freak of nature but im sure others think otherwise

I would be more adamant about the subject if he started climbing with people like Frank Schleck regularly.

 

[mistahsinclair]

Well someones gonna say it so it may as well be me...

another unbelievable time..

personally i just think hes a freak of nature but im sure others think otherwise

He's lucky...plain and simple!

Lucky that Contador wasn't racing!!

 

[cromagnon]

personally i just think hes a freak of nature but im sure others think otherwise

One can't just pick who the "genetic freaks" are as and when it suits them calling all the rest that produce virtuoso performances cheats. How do you pick them in that case?

 

[riobonito92]

Not a freak, even, but a specialist: the best of the few guys who target and train for short TTs. I find it more surprising that GC men get so close.

 

[usedtobefast]

I would be more adamant about the subject if he started climbing with people like Frank Schleck regularly.

we would all be going wtf???

 

[Anonymous]

One can't just pick who the "genetic freaks" are as and when it suits them calling all the rest that produce virtuoso performances cheats. How do you pick them in that case?

kind of my point.. why doesnt cancellara get accused of doping, when many many riders do, obviously competing in the mountains etc is the usual reason for doping allegations, but if he is clean, as i think he is, why hasnt there been someone over the last three years who has been able to challenge him..

what is cancellera doing that the rest arnt?

 

[riobonito92]

Some things that give Cancellara an aura of credibility:

I think he choose a relatively small number of days each year when he will be in peak form and when he will put in his maximum effort. Since he specializes in TT and certain types of one day race, it is easy to pick these dates well in advance. When he puts in these mammoth efforts, he looks like he's hurting.

Next, he does have bad days. He even has bad time trials.

Thirdly, the time trial is a technical discipline. Even on days when he is not the strongest rider, he is by far the best at dosing his effort over the whole course.

My five year old son is a huge fan of Cancellara's. He doesn't understand much about cycling but even he cannot understand how Contador won that final TT in this year's TdF. Cancellara looked like a monstrously powerful athlete putting in a huge effort - Contador just doesn't look (to a five year old) that he can possibly go that fast.

 

[cyclingmad]

Cancellera

Cancellera has a connection with Checchini through Bjarne Riis. Same doctor sorting Basso and Ullrich with their stuff and suspected as a doctor linking Ferrari and Fuentes. Cancelleras performances are sometimes inconsistent and when he is on his game is way ahead of the rest. He displays as many signs of cheating as anyone and has dodgy connections. He looks like he should be good at Time Trialling so no-one questions him even though he shows all the signs that a lot of forum members claim as suspicious or even as evidence of doping. He is my favourite rider so wont claim he dopes he hasn't failed any tests and has no evidence to answer

 

[riobonito92]

And everyone in cycling is connected to someone involved in doping. More evidence than that is required to get me suspicious.

 

[scribe]

And everyone in cycling is connected to someone involved in doping. More evidence than that is required to get me suspicious.

It's a shame that we are in a situation where minor/major connections to certain people logically (by today's standards) lead to the conclusion that someone is cheating.

 

[David Suro]

The time is believable, so is the margin of victory.

The couse suited Cancellara's abilities perfectly. It was totally flat and made of large sweeping turns that enabled him to maintain his speed and cadence without interruption.

His average speed was between 50 and 51 kph, or about 30 mph. For a wide open circuit this is well within the range of believability. It actually seems a little slow by recent pro-tour standards.

His margin of vitory was a mere nine seconds over the second place finisher and 34 seconds over the median (99th place) finisher. His time was only 3% faster than Boonen's second place time and 10% faster than the guys who finished in the middle of the bunch. These are believable margins.

Cancellara has never been implicated in a doping scandal to my knowledge, yet proclaimed fans of the sport seem to find it appropriate to try to begin a grass-roots scandal on this forum. It is a shame that there are those who have become so jaded that they can no longer enjoy the sport.

 

[Anonymous]

Cancellara has never been implicated in a doping scandal to my knowledge, yet proclaimed fans of the sport seem to find it appropriate to try to begin a grass-roots scandal on this forum. It is a shame that there are those who have become so jaded that they can no longer enjoy the sport.

i will point out that the starter of this thread beleives cancellera to be clean... my point being, that we question every performance, tour winners contador, menchov have all been question, cavendish has been questioned many times (and i dont see him competing in the mountains), why does cancellara despite his almost complete domination of a single discipline remain above suspicion..

So, the question remains, why in the last few years, is there not a single cyclist who can rival him. is it that hard to focus on 5k, 10k and try to win, what does he have that they dont, or why hasnt someone, on the basis that doping is widespread, resorted to performance enhancing drugs to beat him? And why do we question every other performance, but not question fabian?

In other words, if cancellera is clean, and we can beleive such unthreatened dominance to be clean, why cant cavendish be clean, or contador, or armstrong post 2000, or anyone else?

 

[riobonito92]

Cancellara doesn't fit the pattern:

Riders who attack frequently and never seem to get tired (Ricco, Rasmussan)
Riders who improve unexpectedly (Kohl, Schumacher)
Riders who put in "superhuman" performances (Vinokourov, Landis, Hamilton with broken collarbone)
GC riders who get careless (Heras, Basso)

Then there are the usual suspects:
Riders who never have a bad day (Contador? Armstrong?)

In all of the above cases, many people suspected doping before any positive tests because what was being seen was not otherwise explicable. With Cancellara there are lots of other-than-doping explanations - hence less suspicion.

 

[elapid]

Cancellara has never been implicated in a doping scandal to my knowledge, yet proclaimed fans of the sport seem to find it appropriate to try to begin a grass-roots scandal on this forum. It is a shame that there are those who have become so jaded that they can no longer enjoy the sport.

While I fully agree with these sentiments, are there that many fans that don't enjoy professional cycling because of the doping scandals? I know it is part of the sport and I am disappointed when a rider tests positive, but it does not lessen my enjoyment and passion for professional cycling. In regards to Cancellara, he is Spartacus and he is a beast! His performances in TTing have been consistent, he has always been strong and especially in shorter TTs, and he hasn't suddenly become a rider with different strengths or specialties. He just won yet another TT - is this really a surprise? I personally doubt that Cancellara is doping and, other than his early retirement from the ToC and obscure two degrees of separation from Riis/Checchini, there is no circumstantial evidence to suggest he has or is doping. Long live Spartacus!

 

[Escarabajo]

I would be more adamant about the subject if he started climbing with people like Frank Schleck regularly.

+1.

His body is perfectly fitted for this type of stages. Having said that I am skeptical about everyone.

 

[Steampunk]

Spartacus is bigger than the average GT cyclist, giving him more power. He disappeared pretty quickly in the TdF once thing started going uphill. In order to be strong in the TT, one must be mentally very strong as well. Form, power, mental stability. Cancellara also deserves more credit than he typically gets for his descending technique. Outside of Hushovd, is there anyone better in the business at the moment?

 

[auscyclefan94]

And everyone in cycling is connected to someone involved in doping. More evidence than that is required to get me suspicious.

+1
You can always find someone connected to someone else through someone else who has doped or is a doctor to do with doping.

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

My five year old son is a huge fan of Cancellara's. He doesn't understand much about cycling but even he cannot understand how Contador won that final TT in this year's TdF. Cancellara looked like a monstrously powerful athlete putting in a huge effort - Contador just doesn't look (to a five year old) that he can possibly go that fast.

Sometime the logical skills and analytical techniques of five year olds, do not lead to the most sensible conclusions.

 

[tubularglue]

another regular joe, with stupendous one day results

i loved this rider, still do

festina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thierry_Marie

"won the Tour de France prologue three times in his career, and because of that he wore the yellow jersey in those three years, for seven days in total."

the secret to success is a good team:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3511/3714087639_e2e868f941_o.jpg

leth:

http://todayspictures.slate.com/inmotion/essay_tour/

 

[Skip Madness]

Did anything ever come of this?

French newspaper L'Equipe has published further doping allegations concerning the CSC squad, in its Friday, June 30 edition. A plastic bag filled with syringes was reportedly found by a cleaning person in a Parisian underground parking lot on the eve of Spring Classic Paris-Roubaix, on April 8.

The man accidentally pin-pricked himself with one of the needles and lodged a complaint with the police. A witness told investigators that he had seen several people step out of a car labeled with the name of the team's sponsor, that transported and deposited the bag in question.

There are thus about 100 syringes that are currently being analysed by judicial expert lab Toxlab, but the needles are reported to have been meticulously cleaned before being discharged. However, the Paris-based lab is said to have secured one particular molecule, but they haven't been able to identify it yet.

In the absence of any hard evidence to the contrary, I assume Cancellara to be clean. But this story always sicks out in my mind, presumably because I can't remember it being resolved. Does anyone know what happened with it?

 

[blackcat]

Cancellara doesn't fit the pattern:

Riders who attack frequently and never seem to get tired (Ricco, Rasmussan)
Riders who improve unexpectedly (Kohl, Schumacher)
Riders who put in "superhuman" performances (Vinokourov, Landis, Hamilton with broken collarbone)
GC riders who get careless (Heras, Basso)

Then there are the usual suspects:
Riders who never have a bad day (Contador? Armstrong?)

In all of the above cases, many people suspected doping before any positive tests because what was being seen was not otherwise explicable. With Cancellara there are lots of other-than-doping explanations - hence less suspicion.

lol, do you watch cycling?

How about when he jumped off the front of a Tour de Suisse peloton last year, that wanted a field sprint. In the last 5 kms, he jumped off the front, and singlehandedly put something ridiculous like 30 seconds into the peloton.

Then he wins a Tour de Suisse this year, which the race promoter tailored to him, but still had to ascend a few cat 1s.

How about when he went home from California this year "sick"? After killing the prologue.

How about the CERA allegations against CSC last year.

How about classicomano in Fuentes files?

How about Riis chaperoning his A team to Madrid to the good gynocologist's office for team pap smears...

 

[Cerberus]

So, the question remains, why in the last few years, is there not a single cyclist who can rival him. is it that hard to focus on 5k, 10k and try to win, what does he have that they dont, or why hasnt someone, on the basis that doping is widespread, resorted to performance enhancing drugs to beat him? And why do we question every other performance, but not question fabian?

In other words, if cancellera is clean, and we can beleive such unthreatened dominance to be clean, why cant cavendish be clean, or contador, or armstrong post 2000, or anyone else?

I think you have a point there. If Spartacus is clean it strongly implies that most of the other high end time trialist are too, or he couldn't win. That again implies to me that the most of the peloton would be more or less clean. Contador to me mind still smells, since he time trials suspiciously well for a supposed climber, and I've heard that he refused to give a DNA sample to check for connections to Puerto which is always suspicious. Also of cause the entire train of logic relies on Fabian being clean. Personally I'd like to believe that, but I've watched Cycling long enough to realize that the absence of evidence isn't strong evidence of absence when it comes to doping.

 

[cyclingmad]

connection

+1
You can always find someone connected to someone else through someone else who has doped or is a doctor to do with doping.

My last post wasn't well drafted. I dont doubt Cancellera is clean and in agreement with dimspace no-one questions him yet he displays all the signs that some use to create suspicion because of how he looks.

The link to Cecchini is that Checcini worked with Ulrich and Riis in the late 90s and worked with Ferrari. Riis took him to work with CSC and Hamilton, Basso etc. He stopped working with CSC in 2004 and then had an ongoing relationship with Cancellera until 2006 so the connection is not an indirect link.

Other clients of Checcini have been admitted or caught dopers including Thomas Dekker, David Millar, Andrea Tafi, Michele Bartoli

The physiology of a time trialist isn't that the biggest guy wins and he is actually too big. He has very efficient style huge aerobic capacity and excellent bike handling allowing him to win rather than doping.

 

[Anonymous]

+1
You can always find someone connected to someone else through someone else who has doped or is a doctor to do with doping.

if course if you beleive in the Six degrees of separation then i have contact with dr ferrari