Carlton kirby - has to go !!

[Anonymous]

Just out of interest cycle chic.

Youve started three threads here, one asking if Sean Yates was drunk on eurosport, one asking who Chris Hornier was (taking the mick out of eurosport) and another saying Carlton should be fired.

Do you talk about anything other than eurosport commentators?

 

[94condor]

The Good Old Days

I notice that nobody has mentioned David Duffield in this thread - perhaps you haven't been following cycling long enough. He was happy to entertain us all with local colour and history during stages of the Tour, but unfortunately had a tendency to miss attacks or other incidents while he was doing so. I'm not a really big fan of either Harmon or Kirby, but I remember the relief I felt when I first heard them, and frankly, given a choice between them and Phil'n'Paul, I would choose them any day. Perhaps we just need to wait for David Millar to retire. I could imagine being able to listen to him for five hours straight...

 

[Cycle Chic]

Busted !! - team sky fan is carlton 'bafoon - dufus' kirby.....

 

[spalco]

Carlton's voice is familiar to fans of Motorsports and Cycling both on British Television and throughout the world.

For over 20 years, be it the Tour de France, Olympic Games, Monte Carlo Rally or Le Mans 24 Hours, his easy-going manner coupled with incisive commentary and a dramatic edge has made him an audience favourite.

His style combines a great depth of knowledge with a warm sense of humour and the sharpest of reactions to make an occasion of any sporting event.

wtf?

 

[Anonymous]

Busted !! - team sky fan is carlton 'bafoon - dufus' kirby.....

now you are just making yourself look silly.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Whilst im not Carltons biggest fan (prefer Backstead w Harmon) I very much doubt I could talk for between 1 and 5 hours without descending into complete nonsense from time to time.

We can critisise, but I would like to see one of us try and do the job.

I had the misfortune of listening to Sherwen and Bobke commentate last night. Gerald Thomas, Edward Bohahasen Hagen.. Makes Kirkby look like Sid Waddell.

Its pretty easy to stream audio online. I challenge some of you to do audio commentary for a stage of the Tour de France for us. Preferably a flat stage so you have to talk about nothing for 3 hours.

Bye the way, to the original poster. I couldnt actually read your post. Due to slight mental health issues, large blocks of text with no paragraphs or spaces are almost impossible for me to read. The same goes for people who are dislexic. Hitting return is free you know.

One small point (i just copied your post to notepad and put spaces in myself).. of the following

Sean Kelly (runs a team, commentating is not his full time job), Stephen Roche (coaches, runs a business, etc, again, commentating not his job), Magnus Backstedt (Runs a team as well as riding in it), Dean Downing (Full time rider), Rob Hayles (team manager) and David Harmon

So of those, Only David Harmon is actually a full time commentator. The rest all have day jobs.

How about you set it up and me and Ryo will commentate in Dutch/Vlaams of course

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I notice that nobody has mentioned David Duffield in this thread - perhaps you haven't been following cycling long enough. He was happy to entertain us all with local colour and history during stages of the Tour, but unfortunately had a tendency to miss attacks or other incidents while he was doing so. I'm not a really big fan of either Harmon or Kirby, but I remember the relief I felt when I first heard them, and frankly, given a choice between them and Phil'n'Paul, I would choose them any day. Perhaps we just need to wait for David Millar to retire. I could imagine being able to listen to him for five hours straight...

The problem was that Duffield I think got a bit senile towards the end, like Phil is getting these days.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Most of us remember Duffers fondly.

Kirby's commentary revolves around Cadel Evans, as he is apparently the only rider in the peloton he can recognize. (unless the guy in yellow is a Brit)
The man is worse than no commentary at all.

His only useful contribution comes during the TDF, with his comedic anecdotes punctuating the hours of tedium.

The man is less appealing than a visit to the dentist.

 

[Cycle Chic]

I agree - he is obsessed with cadel - as you say he,s the only rider he can i.d. Oh - apart from SEBASTIAN Chavanel.
Poor Brian Smith sitting next to that idiot !! I do believe though that Eurosport take note of the viewing public - I started a similar thread about the atrocious senile David Duffield - on the Yahoo eurosport forum - and he didnt last long after that.

 

[Descender]

Kirby is a shockingly bad commentator, but Harmon is not much better.

They basically work on the principle that people watching cycling in english are only interested in english speaking riders.

I can only assume that Kirby and Harmon have jobs because they are a) cheap b) are performing sexual favours for the ES management or c) have compromising photos of the ES management.

Quoted for truth my man...

 

[mastersracer]

Kirby's commentary revolves around Cadel Evans, as he is apparently the only rider in the peloton he can recognize. (unless the guy in yellow is a Brit)
The man is worse than no commentary at all.

His only useful contribution comes during the TDF, with his comedic anecdotes punctuating the hours of tedium.

The man is less appealing than a visit to the dentist.

Do you really need commentators? At the best of times they are just pointing out the obvious (e.g., "oops, looks like some guy plowed into a cow") but most of the times they say stupid things (my favorite from Liggett: "anyone who wants to win today will have to be the first over the line"). Sad fact is, 90% of the time it's just tempo riding, which means commentators are killing time waiting for the computerized-timed catch of the day's break with 1k to go or the last climb. I now just watch the event in its native language (Giro in Italian etc) despite not understanding it. The commentators sound excited, and its better not understanding they are just talking about speculation whether a rider is drinking water or got one of those tea things from the motorcycle.

 

[Descender]

In any case, since I'm in a good and tolerating mood today, I'll remark one good thing about both Kirby and Hammond.

Kirby - He regularly points out interesting fun facts about cycling rules etc. that few people know, like, I don't know... the % of time normally used to establish the time cut, the occasional lifting of the "no food or bottles from the car in the last 20km" rule during exceptionally hot days, the minimum distance between saddle and handlebars in road bikes and tt bikes etc. It's interesting.

Hammond - He's enthusiastic. These days we need more people who are enthusiastic about cycling.

 

[Cycle Chic]

You,re right about the commentary - but take Brian Smith, Sean Kelly or Magnus Backstedt - they dont talk for talking sake. There are silences when nothing is happening - or they tell us a bit about the latest Team news, riders, race tactics etc...Sean Kelly is a great example - if nothings happening in the race he says nowt !! Perfect !

 

[Anonymous]

You,re right about the commentary - but take Brian Smith, Sean Kelly or Magnus Backstedt - they dont talk for talking sake. There are silences when nothing is happening - or they tell us a bit about the latest Team news, riders, race tactics etc...Sean Kelly is a great example - if nothings happening in the race he says nowt !! Perfect !

and they all have day jobs.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

wtf?

You don't agree?

 

[hatcher]

hatcher - are you Harmon's mum? You only need to listen to him to get that he has no time for Johnny Foreigner.

I don't doubt that Harmon 'loves' the riders he knows and that is the ****ing problem. I don't want to know about Harmon's mancrushes, I want the race called fairly, accurately, honestly and without bias. Funny how other non-english speaking commentary teams on ES can manage it isn't it.

Harmon and Kirby seem to think that it is just enough to come along and emote and cheerlead for the nearest english speaker. It isn't and we deserve better as fans.

I'll take that as a no, you can't back up your accusations of racism.

Your problem is you see xenophobia everywhere. Anytime an English speaking rider is liked it's for xenophobic reasons. Anytime an Englishman mentions a Spaniard doping it's for xenophobic reasons. Your critical thinking hasn't developed beyond that of a 13 year old trying to impress his politically active older brother in the 1970s by seeing racism everywhere. And no, I'm not gonna bother backing that up.

You shouldn't accuse someone of believing "wogs being at Calais" quite so lightly. That's a very serious accusation.

And as for your assertion that non-English speaking commentators don't indulge in rooting for their own countrymen, I can only assume you've never actually heard a non-English speaking commentator.

 

[hatcher]

Most of us remember Duffers fondly.

Kirby's commentary revolves around Cadel Evans, as he is apparently the only rider in the peloton he can recognize. (unless the guy in yellow is a Brit)
The man is worse than no commentary at all.

His only useful contribution comes during the TDF, with his comedic anecdotes punctuating the hours of tedium.

The man is less appealing than a visit to the dentist.

Also Steegmans, Dumoulin, and De Gendt even when he's not in the race.

 

[CatsNK]

Harmon has a Cold War-era anti-Eastern European bias that rubs me the wrong way. As an example, he openly states that he hates Vino. ?? Now I'm sure that the Universal Sports guys have some guys in the peloton whom they don't like but they keep quiet about it. I appreciate that.

 

[taiwan]

Carlton's voice is familiar to fans of Motorsports and Cycling both on British Television and throughout the world.

For over 20 years, be it the Tour de France, Olympic Games, Monte Carlo Rally or Le Mans 24 Hours, his easy-going manner coupled with incisive commentary and a dramatic edge has made him an audience favourite.

His style combines a great depth of knowledge with a warm sense of humour and the sharpest of reactions to make an occasion of any sporting event.

Is that lifted from his agent's website or something?

 

[Machu Picchu]

You,re right about the commentary - but take Brian Smith, Sean Kelly or Magnus Backstedt - they dont talk for talking sake. There are silences when nothing is happening - or they tell us a bit about the latest Team news, riders, race tactics etc...Sean Kelly is a great example - if nothings happening in the race he says nowt !! Perfect !

So what your saying then is that you only want a color commentator? this is rarely (never?) done as they tend not to like dead air, which is a pity, not so much in cycling but I'd welcome it in motor sport when I prefer to hear the engines rather than usually pointless mumblings.

 

[pmcg76]

I noticed Kirby talking about the nasty tweets on the coverage today. TBH, I dont think much on any of the English speaking commentators, the analysts/colour guys Kelly, Roche, Backstedt etc are much better but that is to be expected as they spend time around the riders themselves.

I remember Harmon getting some riders spectacularly wrong at the Giro, you would be there thinking, thats not rider X and a few minutes later Harmon would be apologizing about getting it wrong. Duffield was initially interesting but after watching him a few times, all he ever did was waffle and it became old very quickly.

The thing is, there are 150-200 riders in most races, that is a lot of people to know in comparison to say a football match where there are 22 players on a field. I have seen plenty of football commentators get players wrong!!Personally speaking, I follow one pro in particular, a guy I have met in real life and I even struggle to pick him out some times, I very often have to look at the number for confirmation especially in a big group, in a smaller group it is much easier to pick out his riding style.

The other thing is, Eurosport is not necessarily aimed at us, the hardcore fans who know as much as the commentators. I mean some of the questions sent into Eurosport make me laugh but these are clealry new fans and that is what Eurosport is hoping for, otherwise how would they grow their audience.

As for the nationality bias, it is British Eurosport and international Eurosport aimed at English speakers so I dont think the focus on English speaking riders is a surprise, happens in every sport. Again, compare with football where the commentator is from one of the countries playing, is their a bias, of course there is.

Realistically speaking, it is unfair to compare British Eurosport with other European countries like Italy, France, Belgium etc. The sport is huge in those countries, especially in Belgium where cycling is on regular television almost every day.

I do agree that Eurosport could have better commentators but I often get the impression that Eurosport are a lot like Ryanair, run on a super small budget where staff have to multi-task. A guy who can commentate badly on a few sports is probably more cost effective than paying expert commentators on each sports.

I just laugh at them most of the time, it sure doesnt wind me up enough to start a campaign to get them removed unless it was P & P with Lance in a race.

 

[hatcher]

Harmon has a Cold War-era anti-Eastern European bias that rubs me the wrong way. As an example, he openly states that he hates Vino. ?? Now I'm sure that the Universal Sports guys have some guys in the peloton whom they don't like but they keep quiet about it. I appreciate that.

He dislikes Vino cos he's an unrepentant doper, not cos he's Eastern European. He also dislikes English speaking Floyd Landis, among others, for the same reason. He often talks about Mikhail Ignatiev being one of his favourite riders, and about how talented Ivan Rovny is.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Hatcher - I've backed it up. I don't bother to note in a book every example of Harmon's bigotry. Listening to him commentate over a number of years is enough.

I never said that non-english speaking commentators don't cheerlead for their fellow countrymen, there are some terrible commentators in every language, however, there are also some excellent unbiased and impartial commentators. Unfortunately, none of them commentate in english. As it is we are stuck with Harmon, Kirby and Statler and Waldorf.

It is a serious accusation to make to accuse someone of xenophobia, but in Harmon's case it is justified.

 

[goggalor]

Perhaps we just need to wait for David Millar to retire. I could imagine being able to listen to him for five hours straight...

The horror...

 

[pmcg76]

He dislikes Vino cos he's an unrepentant doper, not cos he's Eastern European. He also dislikes English speaking Floyd Landis, among others, for the same reason. He often talks about Mikhail Ignatiev being one of his favourite riders, and about how talented Ivan Rovny is.

But the problem is that there is a very thin line between a doper and somebody who just hasnt been caught yet. How can you slam Vino and then eugolise over JRod for example who could be busted tomorrow for all we know. Its a thin line and to paint it as black or white as Harmon does is rather stupid. Does Harmon criticise Ballan or Cunego for example?