Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

He doesn't want it. He wants his 5th Vuelta and in all honesty he's not gonna get it unless his form has a dramatic uptick.

Not taking him when Remco and Lipowitz are clearly ahead is the right call

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

 

[red_flanders]

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

Sure, that’s generally how teams operate in the TdF. Who cares? Not sure why even have a team… Just bring 8 guys riding for themselves…

 

[Berniece]

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

Why would they ride for themselves? Like in Catalunya?

 

[Oldman]

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

The last Vuelta he had a team. Maybe he'll get support again, but he's been good at exploiting the momentum of other teams. Can't say that is still the case after a few big injuries and the influx of suddenly super youngsters.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Sure, that’s generally how teams operate in the TdF. Who cares? Not sure why even have a team… Just bring 8 guys riding for themselves…

The way RBH currently operates is up to six support riders will be there until around penultimate climb, read six riders as reduced to around two out of that six already, and then co-leaders are on their own, each racing for himself in terms of GC result.

So saying Rogla is a problem here, having three GC riders there instead, mostly riding for themself. It just doesn't add up. That shows somebody inside the team or/and in team management is likely not al that comfortable with that, for whatever reasons involved.

Why would they ride for themselves? Like in Catalunya?

I see, based on previous discussions and suggestions hence you believe Remco will ride for Lipo. But again Rogla doing Rogla things in parallel hence doesn't make all that much difference to such plan. And it's not like any of the other six team members are expected to be there in the crunch time.

The last Vuelta he had a team. Maybe he'll get support again, but he's been good at exploiting the momentum of other teams. Can't say that is still the case after a few big injuries and the influx of suddenly super youngsters.

Over there Rogla was still team leader and his presence didn't represent an issue to some. Plus it's not reasonable to expect somebody to be there in support on ultimate climbs. If by any chance there would be such team member involved then we are down to co-leadership again and then you have to fight your team again not only the competition. So all in all i am not all that optimistic in terms of stellar support. Rogla likely to be on his own. It is what it is better to take it as such.

 

[SHAD0W93]

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

Stronger teammates at the time and team supporting a weaker Roglic = good
Roglic supporting a stronger teammate = bad
Roglic getting support no matter what = excellent

 

[Berniece]

I see, based on previous discussions and suggestions hence you believe Remco will ride for Lipo. But again Rogla doing Rogla things in parallel hence doesn't make all that much difference to such plan. And it's not like any of the other six team members are expected to be there in the crunch time.

If Lipowitz would actually be better than him, sure. That's the problem with Roglic. He shouldn't be doing Roglic things when someone else is better in his team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Stronger teammates at the time and team supporting a weaker Roglic = good
Roglic supporting a stronger teammate = bad
Roglic getting support no matter what = excellent

When Rogla was supported no matter what he won GTs and beyond for this team. As for the rest and AFAIK no, if you are relatively strong then you ride for yourself and that is that. Or who in your opinion rides for others on ultimate climbs at RBH?

If Lipowitz would actually be better than him, sure. That's the problem with Roglic. He shouldn't be doing Roglic things when someone else is better in his team.

I mean if two riders will be doing that why shouldn't Rogla be doing that too? When team utilities such tactics then better to have 3 such rider then 2? Or why is 2 perfect number for such tactics. Something doesn't add up.

 

[AmRacer]

When Rogla was supported no matter what he won GTs and beyond for this team. As for the rest and AFAIK no, if you are relatively strong then you ride for yourself and that is that. Or who in your opinion rides for others on ultimate climbs at RBH?



I mean if two riders will be doing that why shouldn't Rogla be doing that too? When team utilities such tactics then better to have 3 such rider then 2? Or why is 2 perfect number for such tactics. Something doesn't add up.

If Rogla helps Lipo, then all is good.

 

[Faserr]

Last years stage 19 in the TDF showed that Roglic would rather go for a 10% chance to win a stage while risking position 3 in GC of his teammate then helping his teammate to secure place 3. Thats why he could go to the TDF in a team with only one leader but not in a team with more leaders like Red Bull.
He doesn't like a two leaders strategy especially when he is weaker then his coleaders like in all races since the Giro.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Basically if you take Roglic to the Tour together with Remco and Lipo, you have one rider who will just yolo the race and needs to be serviced on top of it, because he won't work. That just doesn't make much sense.

 

[Berniece]

I mean if two riders will be doing that why shouldn't Rogla be doing that too? When team utilities such tactics then better to have 3 such rider then 2? Or why is 2 perfect number for such tactics. Something doesn't add up.

Imo, all 3 could've started as co-leaders, and look at their individual standings after stage 6. But Roglic probably already knows he won't be the top dog then, and doesn't want to help his teammates. Thus rather rides Vuelta as a solo leader.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Last years stage 19 in the TDF showed that Roglic would rather go for a 10% chance to win a stage while risking position 3 in GC of his teammate then helping his teammate to secure place 3. Thats why he could go to the TDF in a team with only one leader but not in a team with more leaders like Red Bull.
He doesn't like a two leaders strategy especially when he is weaker then his coleaders like in all races since the Giro.

UAE and Visma where messing with Rogla, rather greedy, and Lipo raced for himself. So indeed it was rather hard to pull more out of it than that but on the other hand who knows. It could have gone the other way too.

If Rogla helps Lipo, then all is good.

Better to keep it real, neither will help other.

Basically if you take Roglic to the Tour together with Remco and Lipo, you have one rider who will just yolo the race and needs to be serviced on top of it, because he won't work. That just doesn't make much sense.

I mean if you have two such riders already there. Then strategically i guess it's better to have one more. After all neither will be serviced all that much in the first place, between them, all will just race to the best of their abilities.

Imo, all 3 could've started as co-leaders, and look at their individual standings after stage 6. But Roglic probably already knows he won't be the top dog then, and doesn't want to help his teammates. Thus rather rides Vuelta as a solo leader.

Indeed, if offered a co-leader role then why not. It's not like there will be any support on ultimate climbs at the Tour/Vuelta. And Remco and Lipo will race for themself, so i don't know on why Rogla doing Rogla things would be an issue here. It's not like anything changes for Remco and Lipo if Rogla being or not being there in sense of their chances to take a hit or something. As a team they still have more depth with Rogla being there as a co-leader.

We'll see.

 

[Netserk]

Last years stage 19 in the TDF showed that Roglic would rather go for a 10% chance to win a stage while risking position 3 in GC of his teammate then helping his teammate to secure place 3. Thats why he could go to the TDF in a team with only one leader but not in a team with more leaders like Red Bull.
He doesn't like a two leaders strategy especially when he is weaker then his coleaders like in all races since the Giro.

last years stage 18 in the tdf showed that lipowitz would rather gamble his teams spot on the podium to protect his own 3rd place from rogla than go for both 3rd and 4th in gc for the team

 

[Berniece]

Indeed, if offered a co-leader role then why not. It's not like there will be any support on ultimate climbs at the Tour/Vuelta. And Remco and Lipo will race for themself, so i don't know on why Rogla doing Rogla things would be an issue here. It's not like anything changes for Remco and Lipo if Rogla being or not being there in sense of their chances to take a hit or something. As a team they still have more depth with Rogla being there as a co-leader.

We'll see.

Because after stage 6 it will be clear he’s not the best out of the 3, so he should be a domestique, and he won’t do that

 

[Rockestar_33]

The team did want to take him but didn't offer co-leadership. As for if Remco and Lipo are better, great if they are. As if they are not then great too. Who cares in the end, each will mostly ride for himself anyway. At Vuelta indeed Rogla is mostly on his own too.

I don't pretend to love Rogla as much as you do. It's impossible. Even for his wife.

Last two years showed he's clearly behind Remco and Lipo. Last year Lipo was clearly the better rider. As was Remco before he abandoned. This season has shown Lipo's form to be much greater than Roglic's in the same races virtually.

 

[acm]

Indeed, if offered a co-leader role then why not. It's not like there will be any support on ultimate climbs at the Tour/Vuelta. And Remco and Lipo will race for themself, so i don't know on why Rogla doing Rogla things would be an issue here. It's not like anything changes for Remco and Lipo if Rogla being or not being there in sense of their chances to take a hit or something. As a team they still have more depth with Rogla being there as a co-leader.

We'll see.

Naah, Rogla knows that with this mess of a team, it's better not to race at the TdF this year. Itzulia proved that once again.

 

[CyclistAbi]

last years stage 18 in the tdf showed that lipowitz would rather gamble his teams spot on the podium to protect his own 3rd place from rogla than go for both 3rd and 4th in gc for the team

But OK, it is what it is, this is unlikely to change. So saying that having 2 such riders is better strategy then having 3, that doesn't make sense. If individual quality trumps team cohesion then IMHO 3 is better then 2.

Because after stage 6 it will be clear he’s not the best out of the 3, so he should be a domestique, and he won’t do that

I mean stage 6, nobody going after GC will start riding for others after stage 6, it's simply not such a team. As co-leader you basically get a pass to do that, ride for yourself. Even if Rogla would be ahead after stage 6 i don't expect for Lipo and Remco to start riding for him, it's not a realistic expectation.

I don't pretend to love Rogla as much as you do. It's impossible. Even for his wife.

Last two years showed he's clearly behind Remco and Lipo. Last year Lipo was clearly the better rider. As was Remco before he abandoned. This season has shown Lipo's form to be much greater than Roglic's in the same races virtually.

Rogla was the only one that won a GT in last two season plus i don't buy it, that he couldn't finish third at the Tour 2025 if the team would prefer that. In addition Remco had much worse stage racing 2025 season then Rogla.

Naah, Rogla knows that with this mess of a team, it's better not to race at the TdF this year. Itzulia proved that once again.

But there is i guess some positives in that to, knowing how things stand. You can hence adapt to it, compared to believing and preparing for something else. Rogla can race accordingly.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

If Lipowitz would actually be better than him, sure. That's the problem with Roglic. He shouldn't be doing Roglic things when someone else is better in his team.

Because after stage 6 it will be clear he’s not the best out of the 3, so he should be a domestique, and he won’t do that

The thing is IMO it would make no sense to put a proven winner in Roglic (or Remco) in service to a guy who might leverage attrition and steady “pretty good” rides to a podium but will likely have no chance at a stage or overall win (Lipowitz). Remco can win stages even if he’s out on GC but in that scenario he doesn’t likely need much support. So there’s basically no scenario I think is feasible in which it makes sense to make a star rider work for Lipowitz.

If Pogacar crashes out, Remco seems strong, and Roglic seems less strong, I’d put them all behind Remco. Same with Roglic if scenario is reversed. Both can win stages and shot at GC in that scenario.

Asking a top 25 all time rider like Roglic to donkey for Lipowitz who will likely never win much of anything is just petty and short sighted IMHO.

 

[SHAD0W93]

When Rogla was supported no matter what he won GTs and beyond for this team. As for the rest and AFAIK no, if you are relatively strong then you ride for yourself and that is that. Or who in your opinion rides for others on ultimate climbs at RBH?

Using your own logic, Roglic should ride for Lipo because he was 14 mins ahead of Roglic last year. Then if Evenepoel is ahead it’s a 50/50 flip since Roglic has crashed out of 2/4 GTs when Evenepoel was beating him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Using your own logic, Roglic should ride for Lipo because he was 14 mins ahead of Roglic last year. Then if Evenepoel is ahead it’s a 50/50 flip since Roglic has crashed out of 2/4 GTs when Evenepoel was beating him.

I don't know what logic that is but it surely isn't mine. As for my logic, and question, you didn't answer the question, that is on who at RBH is doing any work for the leader on the ultimate climb.

Any name will do.

 

[Oldman]

If Rogla helps Lipo, then all is good.

It would be good for Lipo and, perhaps Remco should a race come to their joint participation. RBH is still waiting for one of them to take the next step; either back or forward. IMO Remco is in year 1.5 of better GT preparedness. Hopefully that arc of focus will get him where they are happy. Unfortunately, there are the youngsters that are ready now on other teams to wreck the plan.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I don't know what logic that is but it surely isn't mine. As for my logic, and question, you didn't answer the question, that is on who at RBH is doing any work for the leader on the ultimate climb.

Any name will do.

It is 100000% based off your posting, take in example Roglic in FW.

I clearly answered your question, you just didn’t like the answer.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

So basically what you are saying is you don't have a name, fine.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

So basically what you are saying is you don't have a name, fine.

I’ll make it easier for you, we’re posting in his thread. The weaker rider should ride in support and he’s been weaker.