Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[VayaVayaVaya]

Wout dropping Pogacar on Montmartre and winning in Paris >>>>>> Lipowitz' podium

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Wout dropping Pogacar on Montmartre and winning in Paris >>>>>> Lipowitz' podium

What?

That stage wasn't even counted towards the overall standings; decided it on the spot, and that's why many teams didn't even try, not even UAE as a team.
There are opinions for everything, but a Tour de France podium should be objective, not dismissed like that
especially compared to a stage that was contested with the mileage reduced and neutralized.

And even if had been different, a podium in the Tour is more valuable than a single stage win.

 

[acm]

Wout dropping Pogacar on Montmartre and winning in Paris >>>>>> Lipowitz' podium

Oh heck, it's even >>>> Jonas' 2nd place imo.

 

[Faserr]

A Tour de France podium and the white jersey is very important for a sponsor. The TDF is creating around 80 % of the marketing value. Being in a jersey every day and twice on the podium in Paris is big.

Some fans might value some wins differently but the sponsor cares about the big picture.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

What?

That stage wasn't even counted towards the overall standings; decided it on the spot, and that's why many teams didn't even try, not even UAE as a team.
There are opinions for everything, but a Tour de France podium should be objective, not dismissed like that
especially compared to a stage that was contested with the mileage reduced and neutralized.

And even if had been different, a podium in the Tour is more valuable than a single stage win.

Sport is entertainment. Entertainment is subjective. Podium in Tour is definitely objectively a good addition to palmares, but beating Pogacar and dropping him on a climb in Paris is priceless.

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

It's entertainment for you, but for the cyclist, it's their profession.

Objectively, a Tour de France podium is an infinitely greater achievement than a single Tour de France stage win.

If it depends on entertainment, a stage of the Tour of Turkey might be more exciting than the Giro that Vingegaard is going to win, but that doesn't make it more important than the Giro.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

It's entertainment for you, but for the cyclist, it's their profession.

Objectively, a Tour de France podium is an infinitely greater achievement than a single Tour de France stage win.

If it depends on entertainment, a stage of the Tour of Turkey might be more exciting than the Giro that Vingegaard is going to win, but that doesn't make it more important than the Giro.

Well it's their profession because people find it entertaining. But anyways, I'm not saying that if they cycled with paintbull guns, which might be entertaining, it would be better than if they race the traditional way.

I'm saying within the parameters of tradition, and within the context of that race, Wout, coming back from an injury that left his knee looking like it was mauled by a bear and having been written off by many, riding Pogacar, an unstoppable force who had not been dropped in recent memory, off his wheel on the streets of Montmartre to win in Paris was truly remarkable and I would personally choose that as a cyclist over getting third 11 minutes down.

I mainly don't think a team that has aspirations to be the best team with Red Bull as sponsor/owner, with two top 25 all-time riders on the team, should be building anything around someone finishing 5th in the GC group enough times that they end up 3rd overall, with little prospect of stage or overall glory. That's all. I'd build around Wout for Green or Remco for stages before I'd build around Lipowitz for GC in the Tour.

But I realize I might be tilting at windmills.

 

[Divergence]

My fav 4: Rogla 2017, WvA 2022, Mohoric 2021, Pidcock 2022

Well OK, sure Rog because we all like him. WvA 2022 is a bit overrated but maybe memorable to some.
Moho, what...
Pidcock? I guess the Alpe stage because he had a good descend? I do not think Ineos sold a lot more HCl or SO4 after that.

 

[Divergence]

Well it's their profession because people find it entertaining. But anyways, I'm not saying that if they cycled with paintbull guns, which might be entertaining, it would be better than if they race the traditional way.

I'm saying within the parameters of tradition, and within the context of that race, Wout, coming back from an injury that left his knee looking like it was mauled by a bear and having been written off by many, riding Pogacar, an unstoppable force who had not been dropped in recent memory, off his wheel on the streets of Montmartre to win in Paris was truly remarkable and I would personally choose that as a cyclist over getting third 11 minutes down.

I mainly don't think a team that has aspirations to be the best team with Red Bull as sponsor/owner, with two top 25 all-time riders on the team, should be building anything around someone finishing 5th in the GC group enough times that they end up 3rd overall, with little prospect of stage or overall glory. That's all. I'd build around Wout for Green or Remco for stages before I'd build around Lipowitz for GC in the Tour.

But I realize I might be tilting at windmills.

Yes, Wout took on the best and he beat him, so way more memorable than Jonas's second. I mean who really y cares... he was nowhere in the race anyway.

 

[acm]

Well OK, sure Rog because we all like him. WvA 2022 is a bit overrated but maybe memorable to some.
Moho, what...
Pidcock? I guess the Alpe stage because he had a good descend? I do not think Ineos sold a lot more HCl or SO4 after that.

Well you asked for the examples and I wrote them. That's my opinion, so...

 

[RedheadDane]

I surely remember some epic stage wins, but I don't know who was on the TdF podium three years ago...

Vingegaard, Pogačar, and... one more.

I suppose it's the "one more" who's hardest to remember.

 

[Divergence]

Well you asked for the examples and I wrote them. That's my opinion, so...

Yes, thanks. It certainly is a subjective matter. But compared to stages where the winner came from the GC group or speaking about GC winners themselves, fascinating stages such as those which you mentioned are certainly few and far between. Would you not agree?

 

[acm]

Vingegaard, Pogačar, and... one more.

I suppose it's the "one more" who's hardest to remember.

Yeah yeah, that's what I meant, in case it wasn't obvious. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yeah yeah, that's what I meant, in case it wasn't obvious. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I understood.
Just thought it was funny; I mean... 2/3 isn't bad.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I understood.
Just thought it was funny; I mean... 2/3 isn't bad.

Just got to guess if it’s Porte, Carapaz, G Thomas, Adam, Evenepoel, or Lipo.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I understood.
Just thought it was funny; I mean... 2/3 isn't bad.

It's not bad still this is cycling and a win is what matters the rest not so much. Likely due to the fact as most of the peloton is sacrificed for their respective leaders. Hence anything but a win is a bit meh.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Looks like Pogi is carrying some good form, looking forward to Romandie.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Interesting team for Romandie, both Tratnik and Cattaneo being there, Martínez is an interesting one too. Lets see how the dynamics in between Rogla and Lipo turn out this time around. It seems that the main challenger to fend off will be Pogi.

 

[Rackham]

Interesting team for Romandie, both Tratnik and Cattaneo being there, Martínez is an interesting one too. Lets see how the dynamics in between Rogla and Lipo turn out this time around. It seems that the main challenger to fend off will be Pogi.

It will be terrible, as per usual. Rog and Lipowitz aren't suited for each other at all. But what will it even matter? The 'battle' if there is one is for second and third.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It will be terrible, as per usual. Rog and Lipowitz aren't suited for each other at all. But what will it even matter? The 'battle' if there is one is for second and third.

I mean, yeah, you mentioned two things. One being the team will perform terrible, i assume that you meant in terms of support and the second challenge you see is the competition will be on high level. So at minimum half of that is in their own hands and legs and heads. So if they mess it up they won't be able to say competition did all that to us.

Now the route itself is of such nature, that inner team tensions likely won't play as big role here, as they could elsewhere. We hence have to pay attention to see the sharpening, if it's there. Easy cuts done by master sharpener.

 

[Rackham]

I mean, yeah, you mentioned two things. One being the team will perform terrible, i assume that you meant in terms of support and the second challenge you see is the competition will be on high level. So at minimum half of that is in their own hands and legs and heads. So if they mess it up they won't be able to say competition did all that to us.

Now the route itself is of such nature, that inner team tensions likely won't play as big role here, as they could elsewhere. We hence have to pay attention to see the sharpening, if it's there. Easy cuts done by master sharpener.

No the team has little to do with my assessment here. The 'terrible' is how Rog and Lipowitz race together. The latter attacks at the wrong moments and races like a headless chicken. He's very strong but his tactical timing is non-existent based on the last year.

Rog and Lipo really do not compliment each other's racing style which is why it's weird to see RB still insisting on having them race together.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Rackham

I mean what can they do, all off them currently race like that so we have to assume it's by design. Some master mind likely behind it. Still there is always some progress possible. At least they likely aren't going to Romandie with the attitude maybe we can podium, win or go home. Who cares about podium.

 

[Red Rick]

No the team has little to do with my assessment here. The 'terrible' is how Rog and Lipowitz race together. The latter attacks at the wrong moments and races like a headless chicken. He's very strong but his tactical timing is non-existent based on the last year.

Rog and Lipo really do not compliment each other's racing style which is why it's weird to see RB still insisting on having them race together.

It's not really about complementing styles, it's literally that the races fit both their schedules.

If it doesn't rain, I hope to see him at be up their for best of the rest. Gaps will probably depend on how groups split on the climbs, the MTF is really easy. Also depends on if Pogacar insists on long solo's or if he wants to sleepwalk a time or two and drag a small group along.

Stage 2 should suit Rogla perfectly normally. Crawl to the base of a 30 minute hard climb. But then you're 25k from the finish.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Also depends on if Pogacar insists on long solo's or if he wants to sleepwalk a time or two and drag a small group along.

Who in the end cares what Pogi wants. Last thing RBH needs is to think about what Pogi wants.

On what Rogla wants, the list is short, so lets see if they can deliver.

 

[Rackham]

Who in the end cares what Pogi wants. Last thing RBH needs is to think about what Pogi wants.

I think one could forgive Rog for a lowering of his motivation in this Romandie considering the opposition than let's say the same race back in 2019.

I sometimes don't know what fans expect (or want anymore). He can't win it. And even though it's easy to say 'that's fine' because of course that's the reality and you have to deal with it, it's also fair to say the excitement, tension,, motivation and stakes aren't at all what they used to be in these one week races. It's not Itzulia 2021 anymore is it? So really, who cares about the team tactics. It's just various shades of damage limitation no matter the scenario.