Cav as World-Champ should be riding Omloop AND K-B-K this weekend!!!!

[meat puppet]

It's neither Cav nor sprinting, in fact both are enjoyable at their best. But it's the "Taylorist" work organisation of the sprinters teams during the flat stages and the trains that bugs me. Sucks the life outta racing, especially when other DSs play along. Every goddamn occasion the break is left hovering at 3.30 and we know the outcome in advance. In his model Taylor wanted to eliminate the element of surprise/recalcitrance/coincidence from industrial work processes, and apparently HTC/Sky/whoever have been listening... The same went on with the USPS.

It's just boring.

So dont hate the players, but the game that reduces cycling to a 1950s Ford production line during the flatter races.

 

[Winterfold]

What I said is that he isn't talented enough to win the hard one day races. His talent(s) lay elsewhere.

When you say talent - you mean physiology don't you? Not talent/skill, because he has plenty of that. And leadership. I rate physiology lower than skill so I like watching sprints. And it means I can justify a position where Rachel Atherton and Victoria Pendleton totally own Andy Schleck at bike riding..

The physics of the sport dictate races will more often then not end in a bunch sprint*, those of us who aren't the fastest have to put up with that or do something about it. If we hate races that end like that, then we hate cycling, cancer, etc, etc

Cav will win G-W, and maybe contend something bigger, before his career is over, he will lose some top-end speed, gain some stamina, he can drop 5kg...

EDIT *I think this is why eg Spartacus riding the peloton off his wheel is so attractive - because it is the romance of a man defying physics...

 

[El Pistolero]

When you say talent - you mean physiology don't you? Not talent/skill, because he has plenty of that. And leadership. I rate physiology lower than skill so I like watching sprints. And it means I can justify a position where Rachel Atherton and Victoria Pendleton totally own Andy Schleck at bike riding..

The physics of the sport dictate races will more often then not end in a bunch sprint*, those of us who aren't the fastest have to put up with that or do something about it. If we hate races that end like that, then we hate cycling, cancer, etc, etc

Cav will win G-W, and maybe contend something bigger, before his career is over, he will lose some top-end speed, gain some stamina, he can drop 5kg...

EDIT *I think this is why eg Spartacus riding the peloton off his wheel is so attractive - because it is the romance of a man defying physics...

Leadership? He has it the easiest of all, flat races are the easiest races to control. And that's a fact. No one really cares about Gent-Wevelgem as a classic. It's one of those crappy Flemish races that we have way too much off. E3 Prijs and the Omloop are rated higher by many cyclists for a reason.

I don't believe for once Cav will ever win a hard one day race. He could barely finish a race when he turned pro.

We hate cycling when nothing happens for 200km. Isn't that normal? I'm not against sprints, I'm against the 5 hours of boredom that precedes it. I love cycling, but I stopped watching flat stages at GTs and only watched the last few km here. There's no incentive to start watching earlier. The Omloop started at 65km to go... KBK at 200 meters to go.

GTs and stage races need flat stages, but I don't see the point in flat one day races...

 

[spalco]

Well, how many "hard one day races" has Contador won?

Cavendish has at least won the World Championships.

My point is though, neither one of them has much reason to focus on that, so we can't really know what riders like that would be capable of in Classics.

[disclaimer, yes, Contador would be far more likely to do so if he wanted, and he's come close; and I agree that Cavendish probably doesn't have the motor to keep up his speed long enough to win races like that]

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, how many "hard one day races" has Contador won?

Cavendish has at least won the World Championships.

My point is though, neither one of them has much reason to focus on that, so we can't really know what riders like that would be capable of in Classics.

[disclaimer, yes, Contador would be far more likely to do so if he wanted, and he's come close; and I agree that Cavendish probably doesn't have the motor to keep up his speed long enough to win races like that]

Contador is a man of the Grand Tours, not classics. And thank you for the disclaimer, saves me from saying it Cav has tried for Ronde and Roubaix, but just fell short. No doubt in my mind that Cav wants to win the Ronde one day though. He's just not good enough for it in my opinion. No biggie, he can win 20+ races each season if he wants to. But it would definitely add a lot to his palmares if he wins the Ronde or Roubaix.

Ps: you want to bet against Contador at the WC this year?

 

[Winterfold]

Leadership - that would be getting a whole team of stars to sacrifice their chances of winning for you - HTC/GB/Sky... Money is not enough.

It does not surprise me that you don't get that, given the general tenor of your posts

And next time I spend 5 hours balls out on my bike to come 10th I'll have to remind myself I was 'doing nothing'

 

[El Pistolero]

Leadership - that would be getting a whole team of stars to sacrifice their chances of winning for you - HTC/GB/Sky... Money is not enough.

It does not surprise me that you don't get that, given the general tenor of your posts

And next time I spend 5 hours balls out on my bike to come 10th I'll have to remind myself I was 'doing nothing'

Money is enough. Flecha rides with a money pouch on him all the time.

And can you really credit Cav for the team part? Aren't the DS more influential in that aspect of cycling

There are enough examples of great stars leaving HTC because of Cavendish by the way.

 

[hatcher]

Let's be honest, cycling fans are snobs, and in the eyes of many anyone who enjoys a sprint is a July-fan. Pretty saddening to see fans, on this forum and others, successfully bullied into feeling like a lesser fan for enjoying Cav's wins.

Cav is a phenomenal cyclist. 30 Grand Tour stage wins proves it. Suggesting he has no talent, or isn't worthy of respect, or lessens the meaning of the rainbow stripes, is ridiculous.

 

[El Pistolero]

Let's be honest, cycling fans are snobs, and in the eyes of many anyone who enjoys a sprint is a July-fan. Pretty saddening to see fans, on this forum and others, successfully bullied into feeling like a lesser fan for enjoying Cav's wins.

Cav is a phenomenal cyclist. 30 Grand Tour stage wins proves it. Suggesting he has no talent, or isn't worthy of respect, or lessens the meaning of the rainbow stripes, is ridiculous.

Where did anyone say Cavendish doesn't have talent?

It's boring that's why people don't like it - has nothing to do with being a snob. If a movie is boring will you say you liked it? Of course not. I never called anyone a July fan, thank you very much.

 

[Winterfold]

Also - are you seriously suggesting milan - san remo is not 'a hard race'?

It may not be your kind of race, in which case you need to open your mind a bit more, but not hard pmsl

 

[El Pistolero]

Also - are you seriously suggesting milan - san remo is not 'a hard race'?

It may not be your kind of race, in which case you need to open your mind a bit more, but not hard pmsl

For people like us it's hard. But I can give you some quotes from professional cyclists who find the race too easy

 

[frandy]

Leadership? He has it the easiest of all, flat races are the easiest races to control. And that's a fact. No one really cares about Gent-Wevelgem as a classic. It's one of those crappy Flemish races that we have way too much off. E3 Prijs and the Omloop are rated higher by many cyclists for a reason.

I don't believe for once Cav will ever win a hard one day race. He could barely finish a race when he turned pro.

We hate cycling when nothing happens for 200km. Isn't that normal? I'm not against sprints, I'm against the 5 hours of boredom that precedes it. I love cycling, but I stopped watching flat stages at GTs and only watched the last few km here. There's no incentive to start watching earlier. The Omloop started at 65km to go... KBK at 200 meters to go.

GTs and stage races need flat stages, but I don't see the point in flat one day races...

Oh my days if boonen won it wouldnt be much diff or any belgies stop the hating he will go down as one of the best and u expect him to go for roubaix cav's the best at sprints in the world more than youll ever achieve keyboard warrioer

 

[Winterfold]

hatcher - spot on

the prevailing hegemony that only insanely hard GTs or 25% finishes taken at 30kmh (won by riders with their bikes seemingly strapped to the space shuttle) are worthy is in many cases an armchair philosophy - and IMO it is inherently connected to both professional and amateur riders doping.

 

[hatcher]

Where did anyone say Cavendish doesn't have talent?

It's boring that's why people don't like it - has nothing to do with being a snob. If a movie is boring will you say you liked it? Of course not.

It's equally as boring to watch a peloton roll slowly for 200km onto the final hill or mountain of the day, and then have a 20 second flurry of action by riders who have been protected all day. Oh look, ContadorGilbert attacked for 4 seconds and is off the front on his own. That was amazing!!! That isn't frowned upon though, because well that's real cycling.

No talent was said a number of pages back.

God forbid a Road WC should acrtually have any road talent apart from being able to stay hidden in the vacume that is the peleton to emerge in sniffing difference of the line.

 

[El Pistolero]

Because I'm a fan of Boonen cause he wins mass sprints right

I'm doing just fine in my life by the way and will achieve things Cav never achieved.

 

[Winterfold]

For people like us it's hard. But I can give you some quotes from professional cyclists who find the race too easy

Is Heinrich Haussler one of them?

 

[frandy]

Ha ha when boonen was leading out chicchi in san luis or winning in quatar they were the best since sliced bread pistolet

 

[El Pistolero]

It's equally as boring to watch a peloton roll slowly for 200km onto the final hill or mountain of the day, and then have a 20 second flurry of action by riders who have been protected all day. Oh look, ContadorGilbert attacked for 4 seconds and is off the front on his own. That was amazing!!! That isn't frowned upon though, because well that's real cycling.

No talent was said a number of pages back.

I never said Cav had no talent though. He's very gifted.

I don't like Flèche Wallonne as a race. It's just as boring as a flat sprint. Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Giro di Lombardia, Clasica San Sebastian, Paris-Tours, the Omloop and the Amstel Gold race are a totally different story though

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.1034173

Click on the vid with the title "Gilbert dwingt iedereen kilometers lang tot wanhoop"

THAT is racing! 30km from the finish line! Do you think Cavendish deserves as much credit for his 200 meter sprints?

 

[frandy]

Because I'm a fan of Boonen cause he wins mass sprints right

I'm doing just fine in my life by the way and will achieve things Cav never achieved.

well in san luis you was praising him for leading out chicchi wasnt you
then saying he could contend

 

[El Pistolero]

well in san luis you was praising him for leading out chicchi wasnt you
then saying he could contend

Yeah, I'm praising him when he helps his team. I'm sorry?

For Boonen bunch sprints are an extra, but I'm a fan because of his abilities in the classics.

 

[hatcher]

I never said Cav had no talent though. He's very gifted.

I don't like Flèche Wallonne as a race. It's just as boring as a flat sprint. Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Giro di Lombardia, Clasica San Sebastian, Paris-Tours, the Omloop and the Amstel Gold race are a totally different story though

http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.1034173

Click on the vid with the title "Gilbert dwingt iedereen kilometers lang tot wanhoop"

THAT is racing! 30km from the finish line! Do you think Cavendish deserves as much credit for his 200 meter sprints?

I know it wasn't you that said no talent. My post was not intended at anyone in particular, but more at the increasingly accepted notion that sprinters are second-class cyclists.

Do I think Cav deserves as much credit for that one win? No, of course not. But I think he deserves immense credit for astonishing consistency, and for wins like MSR, and stage 5 of last year's Tour. I defy anyone to say they were boring.

Do you think a typical Cav win is deserving of comment after comment, and thread after thread, detailing how unworthy his wins are?

If I had my way every race would be over cobbles, but I'm also pretty sure I'd begin to love them a whole lot less if they were. I'm okay with the fact that a dull race makes the great races that much more exciting.

 

[frandy]

Yeah, I'm praising him when he helps his team. I'm sorry?

For Boonen bunch sprints are an extra, but I'm a fan because of his abilities in the classics.

yh thats fine i was just saying you was like hes getting is sprinting legs bk and then chicchi leads him out and still wins lol

 

[Red Rick]

Pistolero, when does Cav get respect from you, if he attack on the poggio, or if he wins San Remo in the sprint?
Cavendish races like that because that's the way he can maximise his talents, Cancellara attacks from 50K out in Roubaix because that's his talent.

You have the right to dislike a guy's riding style, but i don't think we should dislike riders because they're doing what they're good at.

Btw, Cav rides the giro because he loves the race.

If the Tour route gets easier than this year, and bonifications are reintroduces, cav might just try to improve his climbing, so he can go for yellow

 

[El Pistolero]

That's because when Boonen regains his sprinter legs, he also regains his classic legs

 

[Angliru]

El pistolero can I ask a favour. Could I ask you not to make any comments about Cav. Your anti Cav biased is very very boring. You complain about the Brits bias in his favour but your hatred of him makes any comment about him completely lack credibility. As a Brit I am hugely bias towards Cav because what he is doing for cycling in the uk is massive. One of the great things about the wonderful sport we love is that there is a place for all sorts of athletes all with things to admire. So a mountain boy from Columbia can excel in the sport alongside a monster from Norway and even a short scallywag from the Isle of man. Your hatred of sprints is purely subjective and what counts as talent or proper has no way of measuring except how road cycling has evolved to measure these things and that is by wins. In 100 years of professional racing it has evolved into the sport we have with wonderful variety and room for different talents. It would be very sad if the only people who could ever be 'proper' cyclists were 10 stone skeletons. Isn't it great that the sport we love allows for different kinds of athletes involved. So please if you could keep your quiet about Cav that would be great or at least acknowledge your bias about him and the fact that you don't appreciate the breadth of the sport. I don't know what you expect him to do except to do the thing he is most talented at. By the way Did you know your avatar is one of Cav's best mates?

When you start feeling the need to request that people stop expressing their opinion because you find it boring, I think it's time for you utilize the "ignore" option. C'mon now!