Cavendish: class of his own?

[macbindle]

Cav has great bike skills, low profile riding style all helps, but he is stronger and more powerful than all the rest, this is why he wins.

The data says not. He isn't more powerful. He's smaller.

 

[Rackham]

Even though DQS don't get busted (assuming cheating for the sake of argument), technological advances in the future mean Cavendish could risk a test years down the line of this years samples destroying his legacy (the early years of which are not particularly suspicious in comparison to anything else).

The UCI takes care of the tests, of that I have no doubt.

IMO the future of cycling was so bleak after the American coyboys & their friends like Fuentes went mad & acted like lunatics in the early 2000's, someone stepped in & secured the future of the sport with the UCI doing what the UCI does & always did: cover for everyone (not just the highest bidder, but everyone in the world tour, hence why no one tests positive anymore). Cavendish is safe. If he's to face punishment, it'll come in different forms (like a polite tap on the shoulder with a message saying "time to let the others have their victories & you'll ride paniagua for the rest of the race my friend").

I mean for example I've been hearing stories on Eurosport since yesterday about issues with his green jersey & the ASO (Tour organizer) not delivering his special outfit as they usually do. I have no idea what that's all about but I'm pretty certain all the cloak & dagger stuff is taken care of behind the scenes.

Just my opinion.

 

[BlueRoads]

The UCI takes care of the tests, of that I have no doubt.

IMO the future of cycling was so bleak after the American coyboys & their friends like Fuentes went mad & acted like lunatics in the early 2000's, someone stepped in & secured the future of the sport with the UCI doing what the UCI does & always did: cover for everyone (not just the highest bidder, but everyone in the world tour, hence why no one tests positive anymore). Cavendish is safe. If he's to face punishment, it'll come in different forms (like a polite tap on the shoulder with a message saying "time to let the others have their victories & you'll ride paniagua for the rest of the race my friend").

I mean for example I've been hearing stories on Eurosport since yesterday about issues with his green jersey & the ASO (Tour organizer) not delivering his special outfit as they usually do. I have no idea what that's all about but I'm pretty certain all the cloak & dagger stuff is taken care of behind the scenes.

Just my opinion.

Rackham, often your posts are intelligent and knowledgable, but then you have posts with conspiracy theories worthy of starring Tom Hanks.

 

[Rackham]

Rackham, often your posts are intelligent and knowledgable, but then you have posts with conspiracy theories worthy of starring Tom Hanks.

I think you're being generous with Tom Hanks, i.e. I admit this is B movie stuff.

But seriously, there "has" to be a reason beyond what we're seeing because DQS are too obvious, too farcical & too dominant for their performances to be anything other than "pas normal" aka not normal. We know from history when a team like theirs is so successful over an entire season, it's because the clinic stuff is dialled in perfectly.

I wasn't born yesterday & I know (for example) their doctor Yvan Van Mol might as well have "Fuentes" tattooed on his forehead because they're cut from the same cloth. I mean I would bet anything they're doped up to their eyeballs (including Cavendish of course), so what's the catch? And why are there zero positives in the pro peloton these days when the race speed averages are so fast? (unlike let's say 10, 15 years ago when sooner or later, someone was always popped).

Maybe the "UCI covers for everyone" theory is pure conspiracy lunatic stuff (I have had a glass of wine so whatever), but there's definitely something going on.

 

[zlev11]

something just doesnt look right with quick steps sprints. the riders barely look like they're trying. morkov didnt even get out of the saddle today and finished 2nd, and cav just comes over the top like he's on a motorcycle at the end. maybe lefevre's magic sprinting potion is a nicely timed bluetooth motor activation?

 

[Cookster15]

The "UCI covers for everything" mantra has been the default position of the Clinic for years. So easy when you have nothing concrete. In some cases there is truth e.g. Armstrong. But I don't see this with Cavendish - not yet at least. Plus at 36 he isn't that old.

 

[Amazinmets87]

The "UCI covers for everything" mantra has been the default position of the Clinic for years. So easy when you have nothing concrete. In some cases there is truth e.g. Armstrong. But I don't see this with Cavendish - not yet at least. Plus at 36 he isn't that old.

36 is old for a sprinter. They lean more towards fast twitch, which declines at an earlier age than heavily slow twitch climbers.

 

[hrotha]

Even though DQS don't get busted (assuming cheating for the sake of argument), technological advances in the future mean Cavendish could risk a test years down the line of this years samples destroying his legacy (the early years of which are not particularly suspicious in comparison to anything else).

If this was a factor only absolute nobodies would dope. Sure, there are riders who stop taking big risks late in their careers because the risk-to-reward ratio changes decisively and they have a lot more to lose (Pereiro comes to mind). But riders who do that do not make amazing comebacks or perform at a stupdenously high level in the most important race in the world.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'm not one to dismiss depression, but Ibarguren must be one helluva psychologist.

Almost like he saw your post……

Lefevere: Mark Cavendish is the same rider as before but less stressed

Mørkøv and Deceuninck-QuickStep pilot Manxman to 34th Tour de France stage win

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Rackham]

The "UCI covers for everything" mantra has been the default position of the Clinic for years. So easy when you have nothing concrete. In some cases there is truth e.g. Armstrong. But I don't see this with Cavendish - not yet at least. Plus at 36 he isn't that old.

Armstrong wasn't unique in his doping, i.e. his "extra" over the competition was more money & Verbruggen.

But the entire (or thereabouts) pro peloton doped in the 1990's & 2000's. That's a fact. People probably need to square with the fact you cannot go from everyone doping (like literally in order to compete, riders needed at least EPO & testosterone) to everyone clean (with maybe some "bad eggs") when the sporting directors are the same, the doctors are the same & some names in the peloton are even the same.

There was no massive clean up job, no massive reset, no, just Lance & a handful of others publicly shamed. For the rest, it's business as usual & that's what we can clearly see with the performances IMO. The only question is how they get away with it, i.e. the UCI covering for them is one option among several.

And it's not a "conspiracy" when this has actually been proven to be true in the past.

 

[tuckandgo]

I'm not one to dismiss depression, but Ibarguren must be one helluva psychologist.

You are dismissing it in that post, and clearly have no understanding of it if that is your attitude.
(this is nothing to do with Cav or doping.)
Both in that clinical depression is life destroying and you need more than a psychologist to help you out of it.

I'd suggest being less flippant in future.

 

[hulkgogan]

You are dismissing it in that post, and clearly have no understanding of it if that is your attitude.
(this is nothing to do with Cav or doping.)
Both in that clinical depression is life destroying and you need more than a psychologist to help you out of it.

I'd suggest being less flippant in future.

Mate, it was a joke and a funny one at that. I know some people (Americans usually), are professionally offended, but it ignores a long and noble history of finding humour in the taboo. You may think it in bad taste, and you'd be right, but don't conflate a joke and not taking a devastating illness seriously, because one does not imply the other.

 

[BlueRoads]

I think you're being generous with Tom Hanks, i.e. I admit this is B movie stuff.

But seriously, there "has" to be a reason beyond what we're seeing because DQS are too obvious, too farcical & too dominant for their performances to be anything other than "pas normal" aka not normal. We know from history when a team like theirs is so successful over an entire season, it's because the clinic stuff is dialled in perfectly.

I wasn't born yesterday & I know (for example) their doctor Yvan Van Mol might as well have "Fuentes" tattooed on his forehead because they're cut from the same cloth. I mean I would bet anything they're doped up to their eyeballs (including Cavendish of course), so what's the catch? And why are there zero positives in the pro peloton these days when the race speed averages are so fast? (unlike let's say 10, 15 years ago when sooner or later, someone was always popped).

Maybe the "UCI covers for everyone" theory is pure conspiracy lunatic stuff (I have had a glass of wine so whatever), but there's definitely something going on.

Maybe the UCI covers, who knows, I mostly meant the green skinsuit thing as a punishment or warning in this case.

 

[macbindle]

I don't know why people are getting humpy over Cavendish.

Look who he has in his train. Classics winners and the world champion. Look at the other sprinters trains....and then notice that the actual sprinters on the end of them aren't even riding the tour. Even Sagan has gone. Ewen abandoned early. Groenewegen and Bennet didn't even start. Maybe Bouhanni and Colbrelli are near Cavendish, but they lack his train.

This is why he has 4 wins. Next year he will have none.

 

[Cycle Chic]

what about the chain keep popping off - even Sean 'sit on the fence' Kelly commented on it - why does it keep happening ?

 

[L'arriviste]

The "UCI covers for everything" mantra has been the default position of the Clinic for years...

... The only question is how they get away with it, i.e. the UCI covering for them is one option among several.

And it's not a "conspiracy" when this has actually been proven to be true in the past.

It was a common criticism of the UCI that the CADF, the sport's former anti-doping body, was not really independent from the UCI itself. Since the CADF was dissolved at the end of last year, an event that seems not to have provoked much in the way of journalistic comment, most of the staff went to the new cycling arm of the ITA, another Swiss-based independent organisation. But what really changed? After all, the sanctions are still decided by the UCI's own Disciplinary Committee.

 

[macbindle]

what about the chain keep popping off - even Sean 'sit on the fence' Kelly commented on it - why does it keep happening ?

Massive full on effort, then sudden backpedal effect as he locks wheel for victory salute. Try it.

Or, alternatively, in true clinic style, construct a fantasy about rear wheel motor driving chain off chainwheel as he stops pedalling.

 

[Fergoose]

I was more drawing a comparison between the performance of known dopers and/or extremely suspect performers like Valverde, Vino and Horner when they produce great performances in old age and guys with a less chequered history (like Cavendish) when they do likewise in old age.

The first group likely have (or are proven to have) zero scruples whatsoever and have no credible legacy to tarnish with a late career positive test - they'd simply shrug their shoulders and retire. Whereas Cavendish had an amazing legacy in the first stage of the career without much in the way of suspicion during those years (other than him winning of course). A positive test now destroys everything he achieved in the first 8-9 years of his career.

Doesn't mean he isn't doping, but I think it is a valid comparison to place Cavendish in that slightly lower risk group.

In terms of skin suit matters, the suggestion on UK TV is Bennett didnt use one at DQS and this has impacted on availability for Cavendish.

 

[macbindle]

I honestly don't understand why people on this forum construct these huge theories on doping which they base on unknown and unknowable premises.

What on earth do they think they are watching??? Pro cycling is a trade, and the races are circuses. The best riders don't necessarily win, for a variety of reasons of which doping is just a part. It is not, and never has been about a pinnacle of athleticism.

Think of pro-cycling as a sort of two wheeled Hollywood, and the main stars always have to come out on top.

Don't believe me? Have another look at yesterday sprint finish and ask yourself why Mork held off on the line.

 

[hrotha]

I don't know why people are getting humpy over Cavendish.

Look who he has in his train. Classics winners and the world champion. Look at the other sprinters trains....and then notice that the actual sprinters on the end of them aren't even riding the tour. Even Sagan has gone. Ewen abandoned early. Groenewegen and Bennet didn't even start. Maybe Bouhanni and Colbrelli are near Cavendish, but they lack his train.

This is why he has 4 wins. Next year he will have none.

Except he didn't go from "being narrowly beaten only by the very best due to poor placing" to "Tour domination". His starting point was "being barely able to finish races".

 

[macbindle]

He arrived at this Tour with 30 stage victories. What on earth are you referring to?

 

[hrotha]

The last of which was in 2016. What on earth are you on about?

 

[macbindle]

Then he had Epstein Barr. I've had it too....so I know what I'm talking about.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Don't believe me? Have another look at yesterday sprint finish and ask yourself why Mork held off on the line.

Morkov didn’t hold off and has said as much. He was going for the win. When Quickstep got swapped and Morkov separated from Ballerini and Cav from Morkov the two went for it. When Morkov goes on the front it is around 250 meters to go and the last time he looked back Cav wasn’t on his wheel.

 

[macbindle]

LOL. Of course he said he didn't hold off...