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The Manxman: how good is he? How much better will he become? Can Petacchi, Boonen and Co. forget about winning anything more in the years to come?

I admit I was surprised that he came over the climbs so easily and made his way from the last in the group to the front. And then to have the power after 298 kms to shoot to the front like that........
 
Mar 10, 2009
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I was very, very surprised by the way Cavendish rode today. And very impressed as well. I had not expected that at all.

Seeing how he rode today. I believe it showed that he is a force to be reckoned with, even when the races come with hills and/or great distances. How much I am not sure of yet. It might have been a lucky shot...
And I do not think he will not have an off day one time or another. And every race is different.
I'm sure we will find out soon enough how many flowers he can collect...
 
Susan Westemeyer said:
The Manxman: how good is he? How much better will he become? Can Petacchi, Boonen and Co. forget about winning anything more in the years to come?

I admit I was surprised that he came over the climbs so easily and made his way from the last in the group to the front. And then to have the power after 298 kms to shoot to the front like that........

Yup, but that's still San Remo. It's one thing, but unlike Boonen, he will almost certainly never win Tour of Flanders or Paris Roubaix...
If that would happen, I would say hell froze over.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Susan Westemeyer said:
The Manxman: how good is he? How much better will he become?
He wins on the track (he's the reigning madison world champ), he wins multiple stages of big tours and small tours and now he wins one of the monuments of the sport - a spring classic. Next step - world road champion? Will he ever win a grand tour? Probably not but what in ten years when he matures? Maybe he'll go from being a great sprinter to a good all-rounder just like Sean Kelly did.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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WRC will not happen because the course design for the forseeable future has been made tougher and tougher, sprinters gut don't have a chance any more.
I was impressed, now I do think the green is coming sooner (ie this year or next) rather than later
 
Mar 10, 2009
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i fail to see how anybody can, at this stage of his career, say that cav is unlikely to win a northern classic. the guy's just won MSR at the age of 23. by riding over some short, steep hills and leaving everybody who's anybody in the world of sprinting sucking in his dust. that description matches that of RVV, doesn't it? and the guy's bike handling skills are UNBELIEVABLE, let me tell you. Cav's potential is unlimited in respect of the classics.
 
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I think he can achieve almost anything he wants to...

Would anyone have thought a few years ago that a decent track rider would win four stages of the tour, would anyone have thought last year that a top level but young sprinter could then go and win msr at there first attempt.. probably not...

Zabel has obviously been a massive influence and also reading todays comments, cippo as well..

personally i think cavvy can win whatever he wants.. i certainly dont think paris robaix is out of the questioni in future years (not this year..) he had recce'd yesterdays route twice at least, and was prepared for it.. the same preperation into the other races and i think the sky is the limit.. certainly maybe not the spring ones, although who would count him out for gent wevelgem this year but he may fancy taking a peak at giro lombardia for a run out at the end of the season..

hes 23... his best years are ahead of him.. the guy can only get better... interesting to see he's heading back to the track as well...

reigning world champ on road and track at the same time.. check your local bookmaker for odds ;)
 
Mar 17, 2009
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But is it wrong to question how a guy who couldn't climb a speed bump last year (remember he was going out the back on the cat 3's at the Tour), and was being dropped very easily on the hills at T-A last week can suddenly ride nearly 300k's, drag himself over some tough climbs, and then catch and (just) overtake Haussler who was really motoring and had a 25m headstart? or is it o.k cos Frodo is British and we don't cheat do we?
 
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Monsieur Henri, unfortunately, some of your thoughts and their implications are darkening my rose tinted glasses. however, i would take exception to the claim that Cav can not get over the hills. let's face it, the climbs in MSR are not in the same league in terms of length or height gain as those in the tour or t-a. i think that it's pretty clear that last week was all about preparation for yesterday's finish for cav.
 
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LugHugger said:
Monsieur Henri, unfortunately, some of your thoughts and their implications are darkening my rose tinted glasses. however, i would take exception to the claim that Cav can not get over the hills. let's face it, the climbs in MSR are not in the same league in terms of length or height gain as those in the tour or t-a. i think that it's pretty clear that last week was all about preparation for yesterday's finish for cav.


I'm not saying he is doped, just asking the question. Too many 'unbelievable' performances of late have been just that. Landis Ricco, The Chicken, Kohl, not to mention Schumacher and Vino.
Either way it was a great victory for him, i was very impressed with the way Columbia looked after him, and by the way he didn't panic when Haussler went and Thor didn't.
 
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I think you will all find that last week Cav was just preparing for yesterday. He didnt' want to wear himself down. Remember he started getting things together later in Tirreno-Adriatico thus building up his form.

Look back at Haussler. He won the first stage of Paris Nice and then just made sure he didn't overdo himself concentrating on MSR. It was the same for Cav and even High Road were quoted as saying that Cav was in Italy last week to prepare for MSR and they weren't putting any pressure on him to perform. They wanted him in top shape for MSR.

Cav and Haussler had awesome preparations and unfortunatly for Haussler, Cavendish is an awesome rider with great skills and attributes.
 
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Henri Desgrange said:
But is it wrong to question how a guy who couldn't climb a speed bump last year (remember he was going out the back on the cat 3's at the Tour), and was being dropped very easily on the hills at T-A last week can suddenly ride nearly 300k's, drag himself over some tough climbs, and then catch and (just) overtake Haussler who was really motoring and had a 25m headstart? or is it o.k cos Frodo is British and we don't cheat do we?

I am sure many of us had the same thoughts, and it is reasonable to have them. It is the dual problem I have as a cycling fan. I love to see a good race, but many times have that thought that if they are too good to be true, they may very well be too good to be true.
 
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Thoughtforfood said:
I am sure many of us had the same thoughts, and it is reasonable to have them. It is the dual problem I have as a cycling fan. I love to see a good race, but many times have that thought that if they are too good to be true, they may very well be too good to be true.

Agreed. As fans of the sport, we are all forced to question results thanks to the sports' recent (and not so recent) history. I wish that things were different and that we could just enjoy a stunning ride.
 
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LugHugger said:
Agreed. As fans of the sport, we are all forced to question results thanks to the sports' recent (and not so recent) history. I wish that things were different and that we could just enjoy a stunning ride.

I sincerely wish we could too. I very much enjoyed that finale yesterday, and have to say that I was very impressed with the win. That being said, there is still unfortunately that question.
 
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Henri Desgrange said:
But is it wrong to question how a guy who couldn't climb a speed bump last year (remember he was going out the back on the cat 3's at the Tour), and was being dropped very easily on the hills at T-A last week can suddenly ride nearly 300k's, drag himself over some tough climbs, and then catch and (just) overtake Haussler who was really motoring and had a 25m headstart? or is it o.k cos Frodo is British and we don't cheat do we?

blimey.. two pages in and we have our first "is cavendish doping" thread...
well he must be.. zabels been "working" with him...

yawn....

im not even gonna bother addressing the whole thing... apart from two words.. "dave brailsford"
 
Comparing Cavendish to other racers personality wise, then being the next Cipollini, like someone said, is not what I would say. Cipollini had such great charisma that his cockiness made him more liked, in my mind at least.

I'd rather compare Cavendish with Robbie McEwen in terms of attitude. Robbie has a cockiness but lacks charisma which makes me not stand the guy. Cavendish is the same way. To me he comes across as a cocky brat and it just rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps he can mature into a more likeable persona because at the moment his attitude may prevent him from becoming as big and popular as Cipollini if more people feel like I do.

He will for sure win alot of races but becoming a star involves more than just results.
 
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Would that be the same Dave Brailsford who allows Max Sciandri to work with British Cycling, the same Max Sciandri who introduced David Millar to a certain Dr Cecchini?
 
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LugHugger said:
i fail to see how anybody can, at this stage of his career, say that cav is unlikely to win a northern classic. the guy's just won MSR at the age of 23. by riding over some short, steep hills and leaving everybody who's anybody in the world of sprinting sucking in his dust. that description matches that of RVV, doesn't it? and the guy's bike handling skills are UNBELIEVABLE, let me tell you. Cav's potential is unlimited in respect of the classics.

I don't think so.

You can't deny both races have very different characteristics. MSR counts 7 not so steep, long(er) hills with beautiful asphalt. RVV counts 15 steep hills (up to 20%, with 9 of them being cobbled) and a total of 25km of cobblestones. Where MSR hardly has man-to-man battles, the Ronde and PR have plenty of them. I also belief experience and knowledge of the parcours (anticipating the change of direction of the wind, the positioning on the small roads before each climb) are more important in the Ronde than it is in MSR.

If you compare the list of winners of MSR & RVV you'll notice it's not easy to find a rider that won both over the last 20 years (Tchmil & Bugno).

Many sprinters tried to be succesful in the Ronde: Nelissen, Steels, Cipollini, Zabel, Freire, Petacchi, Benatti but none of them really was. Zabel managed to get 3 top 10 spots which quite good, but even being the best allrounder among the sprinters he was never able to make or "animate" the finale.

I think on a good day Cavendish might end up in the top 10 but given the fact that the Ronde never ends with a big bunch sprint, i very much doubt he'll ever get the chance to sprint for the victory. In the Ronde you can't hide and wait, you need to race proactive and that's something Cavendish still has to learn. But besides that, i know who i'll put my money on for the next Gent-Wevelgem.
 
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Henri Desgrange said:
But is it wrong to question how a guy who couldn't climb a speed bump last year (remember he was going out the back on the cat 3's at the Tour), and was being dropped very easily on the hills at T-A last week can suddenly ride nearly 300k's, drag himself over some tough climbs, and then catch and (just) overtake Haussler who was really motoring and had a 25m headstart? or is it o.k cos Frodo is British and we don't cheat do we?

Not wrong to question at all.

Here are the answers:
1. He is 5-6 kg lighter, but his reckoning than last year.
2. He worked on his climbing and 100-200 km rides all winter instead of track, since he isnt trying to win the Olympics this year.
3. He studied and rode MSR finale with Zabel several times.
4. He is at a point in his career switching from track to road and age where one EXPECTS to see improvement.
5. He wasnt dropped on the hills in T-A. Thats just Boonen talking. Here's what CAv said in Velonews:
Absolutely, I knew what they were saying after Tirreno. Tom Boonen said I was getting dropped on all the climbs. If you count the times I got dropped in Tirreno, it was one time, no other times. I knew I had to play it easy in Tireno, because I knew I had good form and a good team. One of the sweetest things today was seeing Tom Boonen go past me backwards on the climbs.
6. He has a big engine. Was almost put on the team pursuit for the Olympics.

I think he is the real deal. And of course he has been doing amazing stuff all along. and is on arguably the cleanest team both by testing and the riders they have hired.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Do we have to question every single good performance now?


He is a young rider who is improving all the time, so it's natural that he will get better at various aspects. Let's give the guy a break. Yesterday was a great performance. I hope there are many more to come.
 

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