Change in Clinic attitude

[andy1234]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

 

[hrotha]

Oh, don't confuse the athletes with the sport. The sport is bigger than them.

(the athletes, and the governing bodies, and the DS's, etc)

 

[Race Radio]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

You appear to be confused.

I have seen few threads that say "everyone dopes". I have seen plenty of threads that address people's frustration with the incompetence and corruption of the UCI and the hypocrisy of some riders and DS'.

If people did not care about the sport it would be easier to ignore these issues.

 

[Cloxxki]

Profssional cycling for me has done with. Too bad for the happy few that manage to win anything of sunstance without doping.
All that's left is a bunch of lies littering the roads and trails I want to ride. I want those cleaned up, one by one. Bagged, tagged, and used again those who were and are part of the problem.
I don't need the 1000 fastest riders to make a race interesting. I'd rather see them all be removed, and substituted by fresh blood. Educated and contracted to be clean above all.

 

[Chuffy]

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

Plenty of posts, rather than threads. I must admit I've read plenty of posts along those lines and wondered why the poster was still wasting their time on a sport that they considered a joke.

But I'm relatively new in these parts, so it might just be a cyclical thing, triggered by the lastest upheaval (Landis, Fed investigation, Landis again, Ricco etc).

 

[Skandar Akbar]

Movies are not real either and people still watch them.

 

[andy1234]

You appear to be confused.

I have seen few threads that say "everyone dopes". I have seen plenty of threads that address people's frustration with the incompetence and corruption of the UCI and the hypocrisy of some riders and DS'.

If people did not care about the sport it would be easier to ignore these issues.

You appear to be reading different posts than me.
I don't have the time to quote all the posts with "pro cycling is a clown show" or "'everyone dopes"
And I did not say people did not care about the sport, I said they had no respect for it.

 

[andy1234]

Movies are not real either and people still watch them.

I don't watch movies I think are s**t. I watch something else.

 

[sniper]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

could you be any less nuanced?

 

[Skandar Akbar]

I don't watch movies I think are s**t. I watch something else.

But you still watch movies. Movies are not real. I am trying to understand your point Mr. 1234.

 

[BotanyBay]

Perhaps you're seeing the frustration that people feel naturally when so much poop hits the fan at once.

I think most Pro cyclists "have" doped. I won't say that they all "do" dope. At any given event, a sizeable number are cycling dope. I think the current crop of "top" riders dope in a very methodical and calculated manner. Not even HWMNBM was on dope every race, but during certain periods of the year, it is in full-swing (in my opinion). So "Do they all dope?"... Define "doping". How often must one dope to be a "doper"?

And all of this macabre "freak show" has turned cycling into a joke as of late. You're witnessing disenchantment.

Perhaps not so much a change in attitude as a change of mood.

 

[Mambo95]

But you still watch movies. Movies are not real. I am trying to understand your point Mr. 1234.

Yeah, but you don't then go on the internet screaming about Transformers aren't real and calling Michael Bay a fraud and a liar.

 

[Chuffy]

Yeah, but you don't then go on the internet screaming about Transformers aren't real and calling Michael Bay a fraud and a liar.

He's just a victim of the system. I blame Warner Brothers.

 

[Mambo95]

He's just a victim of the system. I blame Warner Brothers.

The studios have been at it at for years. Just look at Frankenstein's jawline.



(yes, pedants, I know it's Frankenstein's monster, not Frankenstein himself))

 

[skidmark]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

I think maybe people are getting more cynical, but I mostly believe it's a reflection on the topics that are current. For example, when Di Luca or someone tests positive in 2009, it's natural to see people react by saying 'what a tool'. When a transcript of a 7-hour interview with Landis surfaces alleging corruption at the UCI and detailing a lot of context around how a pro rider could feel like he had no choice but to dope in the culture of bike racing, I think it's natural to see people questioning the broader culture of bike racing, especially when we've been built up for it with tidbits from the original Landis allegations in May through to the recent SI article.

Painting all bike racers with a broad brushstroke is nothing new - guys that no one has anything on, like Svein Tuft, got a thread for doing well in the Worlds in 09. Cancellara, who has a lot more to be suspected on, got a thread 40km from the finish of Paris-Roubaix, for no other reason than he was winning. People saying 'it's a freak show' is just a reflection of a lack of nuance, or a preference for the dramatic in statements. If you read posts by anyone thoughtful on here, you'll be able to see they like bike racing just fine.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Yeah, but you don't then go on the internet screaming about Transformers aren't real and calling Michael Bay a fraud and a liar.

Transformers aren't real?

Man, I just blew a tonne of money building my anti-alien/robot bunker...

If anyone needs some canned food, I'm going to be getting rid of a boat-load of it soon. Stupid Hollywood. Maybe I can sue them...

 

[hrotha]

Transformers aren't real?

Man, I just blew a tonne of money building my anti-alien/robot bunker...

If anyone needs some canned food, I'm going to be getting rid of a boat-load of it soon. Stupid Hollywood. Maybe I can sue them...

Don't worry, it'll still protect you from Riccò the Harbinger of Doom.

 

[pedaling squares]

I don't know that there is more anger towards the sport than before, but with recent developments I could understand it if there was. A former tour winner claiming to have seen and participated in organized doping, allegations of the UCI accepting bribes from a tour champion, a 'clean' team getting called USPS 2.0, Basso winning the Giro, Vino winning LBL and a tour stage, DiLuca getting a short suspension and a new contract, the newest tour champion testing positive, the runner up saying the champion still deserves the title, Ricco in a blood doping scandal before he even turns a crank, riders expressing anger at Ricco but not at others where there is as much or more evidence of doping, and Fatty McQuack saying that cycling has never been cleaner. Meanwhile a lengthy investigation into the organized doping behind a 7 time tour winner continues. It all gets a bit much.

The change that I have seen in The Clinic is a desire to put more pressure on the teams and organizations that stand behind the riders and look the other way when it comes to doping. And that's a good shift in attitude in my opinion.

 

[Chuffy]

I think maybe people are getting more cynical, but I mostly believe it's a reflection on the topics that are current. For example, when Di Luca or someone tests positive in 2009, it's natural to see people react by saying 'what a tool'. When a transcript of a 7-hour interview with Landis surfaces alleging corruption at the UCI and detailing a lot of context around how a pro rider could feel like he had no choice but to dope in the culture of bike racing, I think it's natural to see people questioning the broader culture of bike racing, especially when we've been built up for it with tidbits from the original Landis allegations in May through to the recent SI article.

Painting all bike racers with a broad brushstroke is nothing new - guys that no one has anything on, like Svein Tuft, got a thread for doing well in the Worlds in 09. Cancellara, who has a lot more to be suspected on, got a thread 40km from the finish of Paris-Roubaix, for no other reason than he was winning. People saying 'it's a freak show' is just a reflection of a lack of nuance, or a preference for the dramatic in statements. If you read posts by anyone thoughtful on here, you'll be able to see they like bike racing just fine.

Fair enough.

There seems to be a spectrum of views in the Clinic, from the dewy eyed fanboys at one end right through to the 'they all dope and it's a freakshow' anti-fanboys at the other end. I think what the OP is reflecting is some frustration that the latter group seem to be dominant at the moment. The broad brush attitude annoys me because it's lazy and simplistic. If you adopt that view, you cannot be proved wrong.

 

[kurtinsc]

Plenty of posts, rather than threads. I must admit I've read plenty of posts along those lines and wondered why the poster was still wasting their time on a sport that they considered a joke.

But I'm relatively new in these parts, so it might just be a cyclical thing, triggered by the lastest upheaval (Landis, Fed investigation, Landis again, Ricco etc).

Well... I believe everyone is doping.

I still like watching them race. I'm not as outraged by the doping as many seem to be I guess... I can still enjoy watching tough men survive over cobbles, sprinters dueling it out in a chaotic scrum, or climbers pushing their opponents to their limit to drop them on a climb... even if I believe the lot of them are on something.

For me, the dope doesn't make it less enjoyable to watch. If I were an elite athelete, it might make me less likely to take part... but I'm not. I'm just a fan.

 

[forty four]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

speak for yourself i still love and enjoy cycling i realize in top level sport particularly endurance sports that there will always be drug use and a culture of secrecy its the nature of elite athletes. keep in mind there is no point to sport its only entertainment no less no more. top level endurance athletes are of a certain type mentally some would say its a mental illness of sorts they will always try to find an edge as there need to win is everything in life. understand this and accept it as its human nature regarding top level athletes or find another sport. it was happening 100 years ago it will be happening in a 100 years.

 

[andy1234]

Fair enough.

There seems to be a spectrum of views in the Clinic, from the dewy eyed fanboys at one end right through to the 'they all dope and it's a freakshow' anti-fanboys at the other end. I think what the OP is reflecting is some frustration that the latter group seem to be dominant at the moment. The broad brush attitude annoys me because it's lazy and simplistic. If you adopt that view, you cannot be proved wrong.

Yes.

I dislike the burn it to the ground attitude.

If you follow a sport you genuinely believe needs to be destroyed in order to make it into something that it is not , I don't want to change your opinion, I just want you to move on.

For those that genuinely care about the sport, this sentiment is not directed towards you.
For those posters that call pro cyclists clowns and douches, regardless of doping history, then this is for you.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Is it just me, or is there a change in clinic attitude lately?
The common attitude used to be "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love"
Recently there seems to be little love for the sport and more ridicule in general.

More threads accusing everyone of doping rather than individals.
More threads calling pro cycling a freak show.

I used to believe that Armstrong created a lot of the anger in people, but it seems tha anger is just being directed elsewhere.

Which begs the question, why follow a sport that you have no respect for?

This post reveals a lot about you (not a criticism, just an observation).

You thought it was LA who fueled much of the negative comments here - many (including me) have repeated that is not the case, it is the overall system that is at fault, yet our view was largely ignored.


You are correct that there is a change in attitude (not just here on CN) amongst the cycling community - but it is in line with "we hate dopers tarnishing the sport we love" - as people have realized the extent of the problem and moreso that there is little being done to address it.

Yes, it is unfair to call Pro Cycling a freak show - but overall it rightly has little trust or credibility.

Sure, some have made generalizations or emotive remarks (as was done in the OP) but that shows the frustrations of the poster with the sport they care for.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Yes.

I dislike the burn it to the ground attitude.

If you follow a sport you genuinely believe needs to be destroyed in order to make it into something that it is not , I don't want to change your opinion, I just want you to move on.

For those that genuinely care about the sport, this sentiment is not directed towards you.
For those posters that call pro cyclists clowns and douches, regardless of doping history, then this is for you.

I would say that anyone who doesn't think that pro cycling is in such a fix that it may need to be rebuilt from the ground up has not really been paying close attention. Maybe the head in the sand, it's getting better on it's own fans are the ones who should "move on".

 

[BotanyBay]

Yes.

I dislike the burn it to the ground attitude.

If you follow a sport you genuinely believe needs to be destroyed in order to make it into something that it is not , I don't want to change your opinion, I just want you to move on.

For those that genuinely care about the sport, this sentiment is not directed towards you.
For those posters that call pro cyclists clowns and douches, regardless of doping history, then this is for you.

I don't think the UCI is "the sport". But I believe the UCI must be rendered irrelevant. Not destroyed, but divorced (or at least abandoned). I'm not killing the sport by killing the UCI.

I see organized bike racing in NYC (and other places) that has nothing to do with the USCF, USAC or UCI.

I wish the ASO would go "indie" and invite whomever they damn like to their event. And I wish other promoters would do the same. Eventually the weak kittens (the racers) would show-up to race.

Sponsors, don't care about the UCI. They care about the teams and the events. The UCI is an organization that adds very little value to the sport.