Changing a flat on side of road using tubular tape

[masking_agent]

So here's the situation.

I suffer a flat 40km's into my 100km ride. I have my spare tubular, tubular tape, and c02 cartridge. If I apply the tubular tape, and mount my spare tubular (which has 2 coats of glue) will it allow me to resume my ride aggressively ?
or am I forced to ride and corner carefully ?

thx

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

No, you shouldn't go aggressive on a newly changed tubular, even if it's tape. You have 2 things working against you; no matter if you use glue or tape both need time to cure. The other is that your spare has glue on it already which you should either use one or the other, don't mix. Tape and glue don't mix well in this application, and depending on the compounds of the glue on your spare it has the possibility of dissolving the tape and rendering it ineffective.

Unless you have a support vehicle following you around on your rides with spare tubular wheels with properly mounted tires ready to go, never go aggressive after you change a tubular on your own.

Better option; instead of changing a flat tubular you should run sealant which makes tubulars virtually impervious to flats and save the spare tire for only if you have catastrophic fail of the tire.

Hope that helps.

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Tubulars are supposed to have a better rolling resistance than Clinchers. But there are minimul differences between modern day tubulars and Clinchers in regard to rolling resistance. Especially the Continental 4000 S clincher. With its special black chilli compound. I would never use Tubulars unless I were in a race.
So you can get a new wheel with an already cured tubular from the team Car.

 

[M Sport]

Tubulars are supposed to have a better rolling resistance than Clinchers. But there are minimul differences between modern day tubulars and Clinchers in regard to rolling resistance. Especially the Continental 4000 S clincher. With its special black chilli compound. I would never use Tubulars unless I were in a race.
So you can get a new wheel with an already cured tubular from the team Car.

Really? Who told you that? I have seen data showing clinchers have marginally better rolling resistance.

Otherwise I agree. Tubulars for racing, clinchers for training. Why anyone would have the hassle of tubulars training is beyond me.

 

[brianf7]

At one point in time when we had to change all our own tyres in races we would stick the tyre on just enough to get past the examiner.
if we had a flat we could change a tub in less that 1.1/2 mins.and chase that was with co2 cartridge.

Yes we rolled some tyres but most of the time we made it to the finish and sometimes into the sprint.

I dont advise it but a good tub will stay on without fresh glue but very cearfull on corners.

these days some wheel changes seem to take that long.

That was in the days before we were alowed outside assistance. we used the soft red glue .

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Really? Who told you that? I have seen data showing clinchers have marginally better rolling resistance.

Well I would say it is a debatable subject Tubulars v Clinchers. Each have there pros and con's. When I said "supposed to have a better rolling resistance than clinchers" I do mean a lower rolling resistance.

The GENERAL CONSENSUS it seems, is that Tubulars have a lower rolling resistance than clinchers, due to there higher tire pressure inflation rates and therefore provide a lower rolling resistance. Thus there popularity amongst bike racing enthusiasts.

You said " I have seen data showing clinchers have marginally better rolling resistance " I am sure You have. But where ? Is is analytical data from specially conducted tests that show the results on Graphs?

Rolling resistance in tires come down to the surface You are cycling on. The pressure that the tire is inflated to and the type of compounds that it is composed of.

Here are a couple of websites that state that Tubular Tires have a better rolling resistance ( lower rolling resistance ) than clinchers.

http://www.ultracycling.com/equipment/wheels.html

Scroll down the page to where is say's > Tires: Clincher vs. Tubular .

Take Note:>


There are clear advantages to both types of tire here, and whichever you use is mostly a matter of personal preference. Tubular tires, overall, provide a better ride (there's a reason that more pros use tubulars!). Quite simply, tubular tires have higher tire pressures, and therefore, lower rolling resistance. This also provides them with a more comfortable ride.


Her is another Link:>

http://www.ride-strong.com/clincher-vs-tubular-tires/

Take Note:>

Clincher Cons:

Cannot inflate with as much tire pressure increasing roll resistance – some would debate if higher tire pressure makes a difference.

What is interesting to note also from the above is - some would debate if higher tire pressure makes a difference. WOULD DEBATE ? Where is the analytical data to support this Debate.


Tubular Pros:

Better rolling resistance due to higher inflation limit.

In all reality there probably are not much difference Between Tubulars and Clinchers in regard to rolling resistance.


Then if you have a look at Sheldon Browns Website at this link:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html


Scroll Dow To Tubulars:

Tubular Cons:

It states : > Tubulars have higher rolling resistance than the best clinchers.

Then if You Scroll Down to:> Rolling Resistance:

Rolling resistance does decrease "THEORETICALLY" with any increase in pressure, but with modern, high-quality tires the rolling resistance at correct inflation pressure is already so low that the infinitesimal reductions gained are more than outweighed by the trade-offs.


The above From Sheldon Brown's WEBSITE totally contradicts the consensus of the other two websites from above.

But if You add rider weight into the above equation that complicates matters even further. Plus smooth and roughly surfaced roads.

There are alot of things that effect the rolling resistance of Tires.

 

[masking_agent]

No, you shouldn't go aggressive on a newly changed tubular, even if it's tape. You have 2 things working against you; no matter if you use glue or tape both need time to cure. The other is that your spare has glue on it already which you should either use one or the other, don't mix. Tape and glue don't mix well in this application, and depending on the compounds of the glue on your spare it has the possibility of dissolving the tape and rendering it ineffective.

Unless you have a support vehicle following you around on your rides with spare tubular wheels with properly mounted tires ready to go, never go aggressive after you change a tubular on your own.

Better option; instead of changing a flat tubular you should run sealant which makes tubulars virtually impervious to flats and save the spare tire for only if you have catastrophic fail of the tire.

Hope that helps.

Thanks, I'll opt for maintaining current tubulars with Vittoria Pit Stop and a few c02 cartridges

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Thanks, I'll opt for maintaining current tubulars with Vittoria Pit Stop and a few c02 cartridges

Keep in mind Vittoria Pit Stop is a very small bottle and is only good for one tire, meant to bring with on a ride for emergencies. Suggest that you buy a bulk bottle of sealant so you can treat all your tires. Starting with new ones is the best. You'll see that tires treated with sealant can basically wear until they're falling apart at the seams with out flatting. I've seen tires that are so badly riddled with all kinds of road debris, sharp rocks, staples, other metal bits, thorns, bone, basically resembling Pinhead from the movie Hellraiser,... and no flats!!!

 

[masking_agent]

oh really ? this is quite interesting. So I assume I would do my normal "glueing /drying/setting process" and then when ready to inflate for use, insert Vittoria sealant , then pump it to max psi ?

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

oh really ? this is quite interesting. So I assume I would do my normal "glueing /drying/setting process" and then when ready to inflate for use, insert Vittoria sealant , then pump it to max psi ?

No, that Vittoria sealant is meant for emergencies only, has only enough for one tire, aerosol and sealant mix in a small bottle that fits in your jersey pocket. What I'm trying to tell you is buy a bulk bottle of sealant, remove valve cores with a 3 dollar valve core remover that you can get at any bike shop, pour it in, and treat all your tires that you use for training. In other words, ride with sealant treated tires, don't wait until you get a flat. Makes sense doesn't it.

 

[masking_agent]

ah... now that makes better sense

 

[DirtyWorks]

we used the soft red glue .

Now that's jumping into the Way Back Machine! Do they still sell that type of glue? I did pretty much the same thing you did except the last time I rode tubulars regularly was prior to co2 cartridges.

 

[TexPat]

I've been running tubulars mostly for years and prefer them. They simply ride better.
Since 2000 or so I've used liquid latex/Stans and have only had one puncture--on a tire I neglected to pre load with Stans, and which subsequently sealed up perfectly.
Now, using a spare is a bit tricky on the road, and certainly requires a bit of care.
I thought I'd never give them up until I got a pair of road tubeless, which are fantastic and have a lot of the advantages of tubulars and none of the disadvantages. However, I'm not sure what the crr data shows.
One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is the safety factor. You can ride on a flat tubular, but not a clincher, which for me is significant.
Nothing beats the feel of my Mach2 CD/Dura Ace wheels with 320tpi Vittoria Corsas. Subjective? Yes!

 

[oldborn]

So what you tubular guys has to suggest me. I have never ride tubulars only tubeless which are great but fell appart for no obvious reason, and clinchers.

So i am thinking of 1/2 Ironman and Ironman soon with tubulars with sealent, and my gretaest fear appart from race demands is what to do with tubulars if flat.

To have a spare tub with glue on it, more extra glue, CO2, change it and wait for 30 min for glue do at least something ( i can no wait 24-48 hours) or just change it and ride, i mena there is no sharp turns but anyway.
I now a lot of guys who s dreams did not get realize cos of tub on Ironman.

 

[TexPat]

No spare tube of glue. It won't do any good.
Pre-glue the spare tire.
Start with tires in new/good condition.
You hit the nail on the head with, "no sharp turns". Really not much to worry about with using your spare at Ironman. Lots of the pros still run tubs at Ironman.
Worry about your body. If you prepare the bike with the same due diligence as your body, you'll still need to worry more about your body!

 

[veganrob]

I've had good results putting Cafelatex in tires before mounting. Very small weight penalty and it does not harden like Stan's can. Stan's also has high ammonia content and can damage the latex tubes.

 

[TexPat]

I've had good results putting Caffelatex in tires before mounting. Very small weight penalty and it does not harden like Stan's can. Stan's also has high ammonia content and can damage the latex tubes.

Can't speak about caffelatex, but I've not had any issues with my three year old Vittoria Paves, nor the Corsas, and Stan's sealant. Think Stan's has a very negligible amount of ammonia; so little that no MSD certificate is required. Have a look here:http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/12/technical-faq/technical-faq-with-lennard-zinn-more-thoughts-on-sealants-tires-and-rims_152967
Back when I was making my own concoction with liquid latex and using it with mtb tires, a few mishaps occurred, but never with Stan's.

 

[oldborn]

No spare tube of glue. It won't do any good.
Pre-glue the spare tire.
Start with tires in new/good condition.
You hit the nail on the head with, "no sharp turns". Really not much to worry about with using your spare at Ironman. Lots of the pros still run tubs at Ironman.
Worry about your body. If you prepare the bike with the same due diligence as your body, you'll still need to worry more about your body!

Thanks TexPat!

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Really? Who told you that? I have seen data showing clinchers have marginally better rolling resistance.

Otherwise I agree. Tubulars for racing, clinchers for training. Why anyone would have the hassle of tubulars training is beyond me.

Once again, the advantages of tubulars are being missed.

More comfy, corner better, will not roll off rim when flatted, all things being equal, fewer flats and with goop in them(a great idea) fewer still, generally lighter wheelset(Hugely so with carbon rims).

PLUS glue and tubular tape is overkill. Glue on properly, preglue a spare. If ya flat, put on spare and ride home. Reglue when you go home.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Once again, the advantages of tubulars are being missed.

More comfy, corner better, will not roll off rim when flatted, all things being equal, fewer flats and with goop in them(a great idea) fewer still, generally lighter wheelset(Hugely so with carbon rims).

PLUS glue and tubular tape is overkill. Glue on properly, preglue a spare. If ya flat, put on spare and ride home. Reglue when you go home.

+1 Still one of the best things about tubulars is the safety feature of not rolling off the rim with a flat. Favorite example is the 95 Worlds last couple kilometers, the podium would've looked much different had Olano been riding clinchers. Hell,,, early this spring out on a training ride I acquired a slow leak in my front tire (clincher) on a gravel road which I didn't notice until too late, got back on to asphalt made a hard right and my tire just rolled right off ruining the rim too. So I clearly hit the deck after that, made me realize what needed to be done so I rode tubulars the majority of the time for the rest of the season, no flats.

Feel like there's been somewhat of a renaissance of tubulars lately. Always a constant with the pro ranks, but the tubular system is starting to make sense with even the general cycling public, performance riders, what have you. Maybe you could confirm this too Bustedknuckle as a fellow wheel slinger, on my end I've definitely seen a rise in tubular wheel sales the last couple of years.

 

[TexPat]

+1 Still one of the best things about tubulars is the safety feature of not rolling off the rim with a flat. Favorite example is the 95 Worlds last couple kilometers, the podium would've looked much different had Olano been riding clinchers. Hell,,, early this spring out on a training ride I acquired a slow leak in my front tire (clincher) on a gravel road which I didn't notice until too late, got back on to asphalt made a hard right and my tire just rolled right off ruining the rim too. So I clearly hit the deck after that, made me realize what needed to be done so I rode tubulars the majority of the time for the rest of the season, no flats.

Feel like there's been somewhat of a renaissance of tubulars lately. Always a constant with the pro ranks, but the tubular system is starting to make sense with even the general cycling public, performance riders, what have you. Maybe you could confirm this too Bustedknuckle as a fellow wheel slinger, on my end I've definitely seen a rise in tubular wheel sales the last couple of years.

No spare tube of glue. It won't do any good.
Pre-glue the spare tire.
Start with tires in new/good condition.
You hit the nail on the head with, "no sharp turns". Really not much to worry about with using your spare at Ironman. Lots of the pros still run tubs at Ironman.
Worry about your body. If you prepare the bike with the same due diligence as your body, you'll still need to worry more about your body!

I've been running tubulars mostly for years and prefer them. They simply ride better.
Since 2000 or so I've used liquid latex/Stans and have only had one puncture--on a tire I neglected to pre load with Stans, and which subsequently sealed up perfectly.
Now, using a spare is a bit tricky on the road, and certainly requires a bit of care.
I thought I'd never give them up until I got a pair of road tubeless, which are fantastic and have a lot of the advantages of tubulars and none of the disadvantages. However, I'm not sure what the crr data shows.
One of the things that hasn't been mentioned is the safety factor. You can ride on a flat tubular, but not a clincher, which for me is significant.
Nothing beats the feel of my Mach2 CD/Dura Ace wheels with 320tpi Vittoria Corsas. Subjective? Yes!

Umm, I reckon I covered the safety aspect in an earlier post, Bustedknuckle/RDV. We're in agreement on that.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

Umm, I reckon I covered the safety aspect in an earlier post, Bustedknuckle/RDV. We're in agreement on that.

You mentioned that you've taken a liking to road tubeless, but it sounds like you still roll with tubular. What's the story there?

 

[TexPat]

You mentioned that you've taken a liking to road tubeless, but it sounds like you still roll with tubular. What's the story there?

I've got a garage full of tubular wheels and tires that I would likely never get rid of, but the Masi I rode last year had tubeless Dura Ace wheels, so in keeping with my tendency to at least try the new technology, I rode them. The DA's are the lightest wheels I've got, and since I'm not getting any younger and the hills are steep around here...
They are the best thing I've used in a clincher, and are almost as good as the tubs, but still, I'd rather have the tubs for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[avanti]

..... but the Masi I rode last year had tubeless Dura Ace wheels, so in keeping with my tendency to at least try the new technology, I rode them. ..............

I supose I could google this question but how do you fix a flat with tubeless tires? Do you carry a tube for this event?
Thanks

 

[TexPat]

Yeah, a tube fixes it. Still, I use Stans in them and have been through two sets of Hutchinson Fusion 2's with only one puncture.