Chris Boardman and his 1996 Hour Record

[joe_papp]

What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it.

 

[wirral]

In the interest of accuracy and fairness, you might like to provide some kind of source or evidence.

But what the hell, it's the Clinic.

 

[joe_papp]

In the interest of accuracy and fairness, you might like to provide some kind of source or evidence.

But what the hell, it's the Clinic.

My then-teammate Dan Staite told me this. If you don't know who Staite is, click the link...

As I said, I'm not alleging anything about Boardman. Just wondering if there was any cloud of suspicion over him or previous suggestions of impropriety, etc.

 

[Martin318is]

My then-teammate Dan Staite told me this. If you don't know who Staite is, click the link...

As I said, I'm not alleging anything about Boardman. Just wondering if there was any cloud of suspicion over him or previous suggestions of impropriety, etc.

Zero that I am aware of. He has most often been protrayed as anti the stuff

 

[wirral]

My then-teammate Dan Staite told me this. If you don't know who Staite is, click the link...

As I said, I'm not alleging anything about Boardman. Just wondering if there was any cloud of suspicion over him or previous suggestions of impropriety, etc.

Thank you for providing that.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Well, it's all but an unbreakable record. Granted, it's not a record with the esteem it used to be, but no one has even bothered to try.

Make of that what you may.

 

[Ferminal]

Why 1996 and not 2000 (or both)?

 

[GJB123]

He is British so naturally he didn't dope.

 

[WD-40.]

What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it.

Because he is British and has been outspoken against doping it seems highly unlikely that he had doped...

As much respect I had for the guy as an athlete (lots) I am not convinced that he was clean at all. Most top riders did not test positive in those days and most did not admit to doping... sound familar. Many condemned doping like Boardman only to throw up a positive test.

I think many are more likely to believe Boardman due to the very public fact of him not wanting to use testosterone due to osteoporosis apparently from low levels naturally. Nobody says much about the fact that some were abusing corticosteroids quite recklessly with far too frequent use which as Joe is quite aware of can cause serious issues of which osteoporosis is perhaps the most serious one.

I like the guy and have come to accept long ago that athletes can not speak their minds or tell the truth about doping if they want to keep their jobs so as much as I hate lying I can tolerate it in this case. I admire the guy greatly as I do with all athletes of his caliber but am just not so naive to assume that he was off the old EPO. Though I could be totally wrong...

 

[Biggut]

I think one reason people tend to believe he was dope free is that he obviously had a massive engine but never really made an impression in many of the shorter stage races despite his pursuitting and prologue abilities.

I tend to believe he was dope free because as a pursuit and hour record holder I would have expected him to do better in longer TT stages, especially as he wasnt a GC contender. If he was doping i would have expected victories in these events, in addition I would have thought that he would have moved away from pursuitting and the reason that he didnt was because he couldnt compete with the doped road peleton on a level field.

 

[simo1733]

And he rode for the team with the cleanest reputation.

 

[my username is flish]

A few interesting things mentioned in this old thread...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=544588

 

[pmcg76]

Well I think if you believe Boardman doped, then you would also have to believe Obree was doped as he broke the record just before Boardman in 93 or are we talking about the athlete's hour which Boardman also holds.

The other snippet is that a fromer team-mate at GAN, Nicolas Aubier said that he roomed with Boardman several times and he was the only cyclist he never seen take anything, he said that Boardman simply worked with Peter Keen in England. Aubier believed that Boarman was the only cyclist in the Top 100 ranked riders in the mid 90s who wasnt on EPO. This info is all taken from Kimmage's 'Rough Ride'.

Now the unknown known is that Boardman worked exclusively with Peter Keen so we dont know what they were doing.

 

[Escarabajo]

A few interesting things mentioned in this old thread...

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=544588

I was about to point out the same. Le Breton had made a lot of nice calculations on the hour and posted them here.

I always considered Merkx to be the top of what you could do pre-epo era which is pretty much what we are discussing here for Boardman, so I did the calculation for his hour record and came up with different values to what Le Breton had.

I couldn't resist calculating Merckx's power output using the numbers given in the aerodynamics column of the reference
http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook...cordsHour.html
i.e
.34 square meters
0.75 cd

For the air density at Mexico's altitude, assuming 20°C, one gets 310 watts against air resistance. (air density 0.94 g/cm^3)

Adding the low rolling resistance of a wooden track, maybe 20-30 watts (it would be 43 watts on asphalt) and making allowance for maybe 10 watts lost due to the curves and another 2% overall for transmission losses, I get a grand total of 347 watts!!!!
But I don't believe that figure either, it just shows that the reference given is self-contradictory.

This site has output estimates.
http://www.bikecult.com/bikecultbook/sports_recordsHour.html

Merckx 485
Indurain 477
Rominger 468
Rominger 460
Moser 446
Boardman 445
Sosenka 430
Boardman 410
Boardman 400
Obree 400

I used 0.96 kg/m3 for the air density and 0.36 m2 frontal area resistance. By any means this is not as scientific as others have done but I get around 450 watts of total power. I don’t get the 485 watts that the site is claiming but I don't get any number near what Breton is getting. The number for Merkx for his weight gives 6.27 watts for Kilogram. Recently the Science of the Sports have been outspoken about what is the naturally maximum possible that an athlete can give at FT and they have pointed out at 6.2 watts per kilogram which is very close.

As for Chris Boardman is concerned I would not be able to estimate the weird variables of his position in the bike so I’ll let other calculate that. If we believe this site’s calculations then I have Boardman’s at 6.54, 6.03, 5.9 watts/kilogram. According to the site the 6.54 watts/kilogram is referring to the 1996 Manchester record. Well in order to arrive at this calculation they used 0.34 square meters frontal area (maybe too much) and 0.165 cd. But if we assume that the numbers are correct we have numbers a bit on the high side. But these numbers are mere speculation anyway.

 

[acoggan]

As for Chris Boardman is concerned I would not be able to estimate the weird variables of his position in the bike so I’ll let other calculate that.

Based on Boardman's power-speed relationship measuring while training on the Manchester track, Keen has estimated Boardman's power during his 1996 effort as being 442 W. Given the source, and the way the estimate was derived, I'd trust that value over anything else. Taking his mass as 69 kg (also provided by Keen, although others put him 1 kg lighter), that would make his hour power to be 6.40 W/kg.

And since this is The Clinic: a number of studies have found that bone mineral density is lower than average in endurance athletes in non-weight bearing sports such as cycling. I therefore don't believe that can be construed as evidence that Boardman ever doped, especially since genetics are an even more important determinant of bone mineral density than nutrition/lifestyle factors.

 

[joe_papp]

Thanks for the follow-up everyone. Interesting stuff. I should try to contact Staite and ask specifically if he was alleging the 96 ride or 2000. He implied that it was the end of his career so maybe it was 2000. Anyway, I like Boardman - he defended Vino on the ITV Podcast during the Tour in 2010 when Vino won his stage and Matt and Ned were complaining about him and hating on him and saying he shouldn't be allowed to ride again let alone win Tour stages w/o making a full "confession" and apologizing publicly blah blah. And Boardman was like, "Hey - the real issue is you don't like the rules that allow a rider to come back after a sanction w/o having to go through your little truth and reconciliation committee." (paraphrasing)

I appreciated that b/c I was worried he would fold into hypocrisy or unfair criticism or something and he instead stood up for Vino more or less. If you want to hear it, find the ITV TDF podcast via Itunes and just download the 2010 one from Vino's stage win.

Cheers.

 

[Biggut]

I genuinely don't understand why you are allowed to repeat accussations like Joe has repeated without anything to back it up. Joe, if you have evidence that Chris Boardman doped for this event then publish it. If you don't then don't go around saying so and so told me something was up.

I realise that you are a drug cheat and pusher but that doesn't mean that you should be allowed to go around trying to make out everybody else is without any proof. YOU CHEATED, it doesn't mean everybody else is cheating.

That said you are from the country that allows PEDs in many pro sports that WADA doesn't permit and the country that covered up Carl Lewis et al cheating and has the highest profile cheats in my other sport, athletics. So maybe you just think every other nation is motivated by the same greed and lack of morality as your own.

 

[hrotha]

Seriously? You're chiding Joe for (in your opinion) generalizing, then go on to accuse his country as a whole of being an amoral cheater nation?

 

[Biggut]

No I am chiding him for making allegations that name riders based on heresay that he does not actually give the detail of.

If he wants to post that everyone is dirty then fine, everybody can see that his belief is that everybody is dirty and can dismiss or accept that based on judging his knowledge against his obvious prejudices.

When he starts saying that specific riders are dirty without giving any evidence other than another drug cheat told me that they were then I have a problem. That is taking his prejudices too far, that is defamation and without any evidence that is a ridiculous slur.

I haven't said that all Americans are drug cheats. I haven't said that all Americans condone drug cheating. All I have said is that it is easier to understand why somebody would believe that everybody cheated when you come from a country whose governing bodies have lied through their teeth to hide the cheating of their stars.

It's like if I said that Argentina wants the Falklands to be under Argentine rule. It doesn't mean I am saying that every Argentinian wants them, some might not. In my comment I do not say that Americans condone using PEDs, I said that America did. It is a very diferent thing.

 

[B_Ugli]

The original post is so idiotic (and potentially defamatory) that not posting a response to it is probably the best way of the thread dying a death.

What makes it all the more laughable is that the source for this is a guy who felt it necessary to improve his performance in the pinnacle of cycling that is, yes you heard right the UK Domestic Circuit. He must have had Pro-Tour teams knocking on his door! Dan who?

What a joke!

 

[frenchfry]

I am not sure why this thread was started. It is idle speculation by a Vino (doping poster boy) worshipper about a rider that has a pretty good reputation on doping and with regards to a performance that dates back almost 16 years ago.

 

[euanli]

Reminds me, Staite's ban is up in 2 months.

 

[gillan1969]

with regards obree then that does not follow...obree was always a far more talented rider

on the more general point, a rider who whacked in 56kms in an hour beating riders who, it is more than suggested had 'form', during the era of rampant epo use, and knowing what we now know, then questioning the 1996 record seems perfectly valid and reasonable...indeed you could proably go further and suggest that virtually all victories from 1992 - choose recent date of choice (festina, epo test, blood passport, fuentes, etc). Certainly not defamatory.....


Not sure if I still have the old 'cycle sport' but there was a good atricle on the hour where Keen identified the various power outputs from Boardman's competitors and from Boardman mucking about with his own postion......epo was not mentioned once...for someone as scientific as Keen...why so coy?

 

[Biggut]

Saying that you think that doping was so endemic in cycling that you don't believe any results over a certain period is very, very diferent from saying that Chris Boardman doped. Papp repeats the allegation made by Danny Staite. That is clearly defamatory.

To do it without even saying what the precise nature of the allegation or the evidence behind it is, well to me that just looks like a pair of convicted dopers trying to play down their own cheating.

 

[Winterfold]

joe - Ive tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that post is a masterclass in how to defame someone without technically defaming them.

Why do you want to know?

If Boardman was on the sauce that is the day we should all pack up and do chess or darts. I just can't accept any doubt about him at all.

Next you'll be asking if the Queen farts in bed.