Chris Boardman and his 1996 Hour Record

[acoggan]

I googled "Chris boardman V02 max" and two sites credited him with 80.

So out of curiosity I performed the same search, and indeed, the first two results give that value. However, neither provides any reference for their claim, and the 2nd one:

http://members.shaw.ca/mybike/Documents/VO2 Max Explained.pdf

incorrectly gives Colby Pearce's VO2max as only 62 mL/min/kg. I can state with certainty that this value is incorrect because I was the first person to test Colby (in 1996 or 1997), and his VO2max was in the low/mid 70s even in the off-season (i.e., January).

 

[andy1234]

Aww, monkey!. Does anyone believe that Boardman had a VO2 max of 91?

Let me you ask you this...
How good were LeMonds results, even with his 90+ vo2 max, when EPO etc really took off?

If LeMond had started his pro career in 1993, you could well be questioning the legitimacy of his physiological testing.

A few smaller stage races and big one day performances would have been the best even the greatest physical talent, riding clean, could hope for.
Sound familiar?

For the record, Boardman did not have a 91 Vo2 max, but it wasn't far off.

 

[Abstainer]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here, but I have to say it ...

I find it bizarre that a man who has a criminal conviction for peddling dangerous drugs seems to regard doping in terms of unfairly influencing racing results. The substances you peddled risked the long term health of those who you supplied. It is entirely conceivable that in the future, people will have died because of your irresponsibility in selling them drugs they had absolutely no business taking unsupervised by responsible medical professionals. Even if Boardman was to have broken the world mile record because of some sort of illicit chemical help, that is a far less heinous crime than your own activities which were tantamount to potential manslaughter.

Now I appreciate that you have confessed and admitted what you did and I can respect that. But when I read a thread like this, I have severe doubts if you really appreciate the evil of your actions. Doping is evil not because it enables cyclist X to perform better, but because cyclist X is being encouraged to risk his life and health. And as the supplier, I regard you as a more immoral person than any cyclist who benefits from your products.

So as far as I'm concerned, get back under your rock. And don't come out until you have grasped that doping first and foremost a health issue.

 

[acoggan]

neither provides any reference for their claim

BTW, before anyone calls me a hypocrite: data regarding Boardman's 1996 hour record can be found (among other places) in:

Keen, P. The one hour track cycling record. In: Hawley, J, and Burke, L. Peak Performance. Training and Nutritional Strategies for Sport. Allen and Unwin, St. Leonards NSW, Australia, 1998, pp. 402-406.

Specifically, Keen estimates (based on his speed-power relationship measuring in preparation for the attempt) that Boardman maintained 442 W for the hour, representing a mass-specific power of 6.4 W/kg (only one digit beyond the decimal point). Given his measured gross efficiency of 22.6% (a figure already provided by le Breton) at 100 rpm, this meant that he must have sustained a little over 90% of his VO2max of 90 mL/min/kg.

BTW, if you then take Boardman's power and speed, make some reasonable assumptions re. drivetrain efficiency, Crr, and air density, you can also estimate his CdA, which turns out to be (IIRC) 0.185 m^2. That is low, but no lower than you would expect given his stature, position, and equipment.

 

[tdiethe]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here

Well said ... I'm with you!

 

[maltiv]

Aww, monkey!. Does anyone believe that Boardman had a VO2 max of 91?

Why wouldn't he have had that? 91 is exceptional, but not particularly uncommon amongst top athletes. Above 93 is extremely uncommon, however.

 

[acoggan]

Why wouldn't he have had that? 91 is exceptional, but not particularly uncommon amongst top athletes. Above 93 is extremely uncommon, however.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=802796&postcount=42

 

[Berzin]

Well, it's all but an unbreakable record. Granted, it's not a record with the esteem it used to be, but no one has even bothered to try.

Make of that what you may.

With the stupid rules the UCI implemented to keep it about the athlete and not the technology, no one really cares anymore.

It's like asking anyone going for the mile record to so so in suede Pumas from 1978.

 

[Berzin]

I find it bizarre that a man who has a criminal conviction for peddling dangerous drugs seems to regard doping in terms of unfairly influencing racing results.

The substances you peddled risked the long term health of those who you supplied. It is entirely conceivable that in the future, people will have died because of your irresponsibility in selling them drugs they had absolutely no business taking unsupervised by responsible medical professionals.

Even if Boardman was to have broken the world mile record because of some sort of illicit chemical help, that is a far less heinous crime than your own activities which were tantamount to potential manslaughter.

Manslaughter? A bit overboard, wouldn't you say?

He was selling to customers who were willingly putting their health at risk, and no doubt would have researched other avenues to procure PED's without hesitation.

At what point does the customer bare responsibility for his own actions in this chain of events?

I respect anti-doping measures from a cheating standpoint. What I don't respect is the type of one-sided, puritanical moralizing you are engaging in.

Real easy to throw stones at one marginalized individual when we have evidence of cheaters at the highest levels getting away with it and laughing at people like you.

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

Right, can we have some evidence please that Boardman doped? ***-packet numbers do not constitute evidence.

The Clinic has a reputation for disappearing up its own back passage sometimes. This is one of those occasions.

There's never been even a rumour against Chris Boardman, not one. Yet here is the Clinic in full chin-scratching mode.

Here's a note to all the regulars - not all great athletic achievement is done with the aid of PED's. I know that goes against one of the founding principles of the Clinic, but it's the truth, nonetheless.

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

***-packet numbers do not constitute evidence.

.

Cigarette-packet, I should have said. I forgot that slang-UK doesn't translate to slang-US. Point still stands.

 

[Benotti69]

<snip>

There's never been even a rumour against Chris Boardman, not one. Yet here is the Clinic in full chin-scratching mode.

Here's a note to all the regulars - not all great athletic achievement is done with the aid of PED's. I know that goes against one of the founding principles of the Clinic, but it's the truth, nonetheless.

There was a rumour heard by Joe Papp. One.

If you dont like the crawling up backsides why are you in here joining the crawling?

Here's a note to all those who doubt chemical/Performance enhancement is the standard. Just look at the changes since the 1990's and you will see that where money is the goal PED's were used.

Federations have not been diligent in catching athletes because it is bad for business.

For those who come in here a moan about the clinic, why come in?

 

[Escarabajo]

Why wouldn't he have had that? 91 is exceptional, but not particularly uncommon amongst top athletes. Above 93 is extremely uncommon, however.

Please point me to cyclists with 91 VO2 max or above.

Last I knew was Greg and Hinault. Nowdays riders try to keep it confidential anyway.

 

[Polish]

For those who come in here a moan about the clinic, why come in?

Lets face it Benotti69, there IS a lot of BS in the clinic.
And its important that guys like Markyboy and Abstainer point out the BS.
If you do not like people pointing out BS, why come in yourself?

 

[acoggan]

For those who come in here a moan about the clinic, why come in?

So the lunatics don't take over the asylum?

 

[function]

There was a rumour heard by Joe Papp. One.

If you dont like the crawling up backsides why are you in here joining the crawling?

Here's a note to all those who doubt chemical/Performance enhancement is the standard. Just look at the changes since the 1990's and you will see that where money is the goal PED's were used.

Federations have not been diligent in catching athletes because it is bad for business.

For those who come in here a moan about the clinic, why come in?

To keep discussions balanced, objectivity isn't a strong suit around here so an opposing view, hopefully, helps passers by see that it's not just one sided.

 

[acoggan]

Please point me to cyclists with 91 VO2 max or above.

You always have to wonder about the accuracy of any numbers thrown around, as well as whether they are "au naturale", but nonetheless I got curious and did a quick search...Kurt Asle Arvesen at 93 mL/min/kg is the only other one I came across.

 

[Escarabajo]

You always have to wonder about the accuracy of any numbers thrown around, as well as whether they are "au naturale", but nonetheless I got curious and did a quick search...Kurt Asle Arvesen at 93 mL/min/kg is the only other one I came across.

That's why I asked. Because it is not common by any means. Even in top athletes. I don't know any actual cyclist with that number. I heard Cadel was about 88 but that's the maximum I heard.

 

[andy1234]

There was a rumour heard by Joe Papp. One.

If you dont like the crawling up backsides why are you in here joining the crawling?

Here's a note to all those who doubt chemical/Performance enhancement is the standard. Just look at the changes since the 1990's and you will see that where money is the goal PED's were used.

Federations have not been diligent in catching athletes because it is bad for business.

For those who come in here a moan about the clinic, why come in?

I heard a rumour about you. It could be tue, but Im not sure.
I might start a thread here stating what that rumour is and let everyone discuss.

Just let me know if thats OK?

 

[acoggan]

I heard a rumour about you. It could be tue, but Im not sure.
I might start a thread here stating what that rumour is and let everyone discuss.

Just let me know if thats OK?

It should be - after all, starting rumors that people are paid to post here seems to be perfectly acceptable (I wonder if that's actionable?).

 

[joe_papp]

It's amazing how bent some people get and how incapable they are of rationally and dispassionately discussing a topic. I merely asked if there was ever any suspicion about Boardman, noted that I didn't follow his career and wasn't alleging he'd done anything wrong, but revealed that one of the only UK riders I knew, who himself would later be caught using PED's, told me 10+ years ago that he himself heard it suggested by two other elite UK riders that CB raced on bread and water his entire career except for one of his hour records.

It would have been very easy for folks more familiar w/ Boardman's career to simply post that there hadn't been any suspicion over his rides - if that was the case - and leave it at that. Instead some of you crumble into a pack of howling monkeys and go so far as to mistakenly think you have the need - or moral right - to start attacking me in order to protect your hero. Get a grip. Focus on the topic, not the people discussing it. Unless that's not your interest.

As I said before, I appreciate the reasoned, rational responses that were posted answering my initial inquiry. As to the haters, whiners, howler monkeys - whatever. Attack as much as you want - you just reveal yourselves to be incapable of any rational discourse.

 

[function]

It's amazing how bent some people get and how incapable they are of rationally and dispassionately discussing a topic. I merely asked if there was ever any suspicion about Boardman, noted that I didn't follow his career and wasn't alleging he'd done anything wrong, but revealed that one of the only UK riders I knew, who himself would later be caught using PED's, told me 10+ years ago that he himself had it suggested to him by two other elite riders that CB raced on bread and water his entire career except for one of his hour records.

It would have been very easy for folks more familiar w/ Boardman's career to simply post that there hadn't been any suspicion over his rides - if that was the case - and leave it at that. Instead some of you crumble into a pack of howling monkeys and go so far as to mistakenly think you have the need - or moral right - to start attacking me in order to protect your hero. Get a grip.

As I said before, I appreciate the reasoned, rational responses that were posted answering my initial inquiry. As to the haters, whiners, howler monkeys - whatever. Attack as much as you want - you just reveal yourselves to be incapable of any rational discourse.

I personally don't mind discussing something if it has some sort of footing, the problem with discussing a person based on a rumour you heard from someone who knew someone who rode with Boardman, is that after all the innuendo starts flying around, we end up with "Boardman probably doped otherwise it wouldn't be so 'widely' discussed". An interesting read right now would be a rumour dissemination social experiment.

 

[andy1234]

It's amazing how bent some people get and how incapable they are of rationally and dispassionately discussing a topic. I merely asked if there was ever any suspicion about Boardman, noted that I didn't follow his career and wasn't alleging he'd done anything wrong, but revealed that one of the only UK riders I knew, who himself would later be caught using PED's, told me 10+ years ago that he himself had it suggested to him by two other elite riders that CB raced on bread and water his entire career except for one of his hour records.

It would have been very easy for folks more familiar w/ Boardman's career to simply post that there hadn't been any suspicion over his rides - if that was the case - and leave it at that. Instead some of you crumble into a pack of howling monkeys and go so far as to mistakenly think you have the need - or moral right - to start attacking me in order to protect your hero. Get a grip.

As I said before, I appreciate the reasoned, rational responses that were posted answering my initial inquiry. As to the haters, whiners, howler monkeys - whatever. Attack as much as you want - you just reveal yourselves to be incapable of any rational discourse.

Maybe rational and dispassionate is what you become when life has followed the path yours has. Good luck with that.
Until then, other people are entitled to get angry when one of the few riders who stood for what is good about the sport, is put under suspicion.

As a doper who has seen the light, you may want to choose the target of any insinuations more carefully.
If not, you may have a hard time convincing people that your motivation is noble.

 

[joe_papp]

Maybe rational and dispassionate is what you become when life has followed the path yours has. Good luck with that.
Until then, other people are entitled to get angry when one of the few riders who stood for what is good about the sport, is put under suspicion.

As a doper who has seen the light, you may want to choose the target of any insinuations more carefully.
If not, you may have a hard time convincing people that your motivation is noble.

"What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it."

The above can be answered with simple Yes/No.

If "No" then no further discussion is necessary.
If "Yes" then details or a history would be expected.

I object to your distorting my original post to fit your own prejudices. I didn't allege or insinuate anything and made that very clear from the beginning.

 

[Le breton]

"What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

So here is my answer, all based on impressions.

I have never heard it suggested that Boardman took any PEDs. The fact that he could be competitive on a week long stage race (Dauphiné Libéré for example) but would fade on longer events like the TdF could be seen as supporting evidence that he raced clean.

Now, concerning his best hour record, I must say that I have some difficulty in believing it was done 100% clean. To really believe it I would need to see independent evidence that he did have a VO2 max of 90 ml/min.kg

But then I could find excuses for just trying one time to see what would happen.