Chris Boardman and his 1996 Hour Record

[Polish]

"What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it."

The above can be answered with simple Yes/No.

If "No" then no further discussion is necessary.
If "Yes" then details or a history would be expected.

I object to your distorting my original post to fit your own prejudices. I didn't allege or insinuate anything and made that very clear from the beginning.

If you were just looking for Yes/No, maybe you should have done a poll.

Of course, it would have been 100% No and 0% Yes, and how much fun would THAT be. Borrrrring. Nobody here in the clinic has any evidence that Boardman doped. Borrrrring.

 

[andy1234]

"What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it."

The above can be answered with simple Yes/No.

If "No" then no further discussion is necessary.
If "Yes" then details or a history would be expected.

I object to your distorting my original post to fit your own prejudices. I didn't allege or insinuate anything and made that very clear from the beginning.

Well, you got plenty of answers back, so job done.
You also got a few opinions about you and your motives, which sems fair.

 

[Benotti69]

I heard a rumour about you. It could be tue, but Im not sure.
I might start a thread here stating what that rumour is and let everyone discuss.

Just let me know if thats OK?

Fire away.

 

[Benotti69]

So the lunatics don't take over the asylum?

No, but why come in if all you are gonna do is label everyone as the same.

Lots of lunatics in here but they are all easily recognised by their yellow bracelets.

There are lots of interesting discussions in here relating to a very important part of the sport.

It upsets lots of fans that doping in cycling is discussed in the first place and to the extent it is discussed in here angers them even more so and with that anger they post.

I understand why people are upset about the doping but not for the reasons why they are upset. It is because other sports choose to ignore what goes on in their sport and we in the clinic dont.

Yes lots gets discussed without hard facts but i very much doubt the clinic has the power to destroy anyone's career or reputation because if the clinic did it would have been shut down a long time ago by the attorneys of one texan.

Cycling is full of doping and doped performances. This is the right place to raise it.

Boardman rode through a very EPO fuelled era and had some top wins, so yes there might be a question or 2. But that is what the OP asked, a question?

Too many people come in with their backs up after misreading OPs.

Now back to the lunacy

 

[gillan1969]

Maybe rational and dispassionate is what you become when life has followed the path yours has. Good luck with that.
Until then, other people are entitled to get angry when one of the few riders who stood for what is good about the sport, is put under suspicion.

As a doper who has seen the light, you may want to choose the target of any insinuations more carefully.
If not, you may have a hard time convincing people that your motivation is noble.

i'm not sure why boardman might be considered as standing for what's good about the sport? He, on more than one occasion, stated that it was winning he was interested in rather than cycling (indeed as an aside, a psychologist might conclude he would therefore be more liable to dope on that basis)..

he certainly couldn't compare to someone like fignon, hinault, gilbert, contador, cancellara, boonen or musseuw who understood the passion of the fans and knew that there was was more to just winning and that the manner of the winning was as important for the passionate

he was fast though

 

[Berzin]

Ask yourselves why Chris Boardman retired at the age of 32-

Chris Boardman had every reason to be beaming from the top podium in the Olympic stadium in Barcelona. It was 1992 and at the age of 23, he was fit, healthy and happy. He had just secured a gold medal in cycling - the first for Britain in 72 years - by setting a new record in the 4,000m track race on his distinctive black carbon-framed bike, designed by Lotus.

Yet within seven years, he was to receive a shocking diagnosis that was to end his cycling career. Chris was told he was suffering from osteoporosis - a condition usually associated with middle-aged women.

Although in its early stages, the disease, which causes bones to become fragile and prone to breakage, was enough to stop this elite sportsman in his tracks.

'Anyone with low levels of the hormone will struggle to keep up their stamina - as, among other things, testosterone improves endurance. I was pleased to understand what had been going wrong.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/d...-BOARDMAN-I-cycling-32-I-bones-old-woman.html


In an interview with Cycling News magazine when he announced his retirement, Boardman stated he could have attempted to continue his career but would need hormone supplementation.

But I believe that would have caused problems with the UCI, who are there to keep things like this from happening.

Remember, it's always better for the UCI to stop Jonathan Vaughters from getting a much needed cortisone injection for a wasp sting than to keep a-holes like Armstrong from doping with impunity.

From what I've heard in my many years as a fan there is absolutely nothing to link Boardman to doping. Nothing. I believe on this front he was a class act all the way.

 

[Martin318is]

"What's the consensus on Boardman, PED's and his 1996 56.375 km Hour Record? Was it ever alleged that he'd prepared w/ EPO for that ride, the only time in his pro career he supposedly might've doped?

I'm not alleging that he did. Many years ago someone suggested that to me but I never followed-up on it."

The above can be answered with simple Yes/No.

If "No" then no further discussion is necessary.
If "Yes" then details or a history would be expected.

I object to your distorting my original post to fit your own prejudices. I didn't allege or insinuate anything and made that very clear from the beginning.

But why even raise the question itself in such a way, Joe? A simple search around the net, including threads here on the forum would have told you that the general consensus was that he was clean for his entire career.

What purpose does it serve to ask the question when it turns out the basis for asking is that a doper supposedly heard someone else raise a doubt? If there really was a doubt, then you would have been able to find it without needing to raise it here with "Many years ago someone suggested it to me but I never followed up on it"

That sentence alone gives undeserved theoretical credibility to the idea.

Personally, I would like to see more informed discussion around factual cases and a little less of the 'Rider X hasn't been smeared in a while, lets talk about him as though he doped' style that we see here in the Clinic on most days.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I guess I'm swimming against the tide here, but I have to say it ...


I find it bizarre that a man who has a criminal conviction for peddling dangerous drugs seems to regard doping in terms of unfairly influencing racing results. The substances you peddled risked the long term health of those who you supplied. It is entirely conceivable that in the future, people will have died because of your irresponsibility in selling them drugs they had absolutely no business taking unsupervised by responsible medical professionals. Even if Boardman was to have broken the world mile record because of some sort of illicit chemical help, that is a far less heinous crime than your own activities which were tantamount to potential manslaughter.

Now I appreciate that you have confessed and admitted what you did and I can respect that. But when I read a thread like this, I have severe doubts if you really appreciate the evil of your actions. Doping is evil not because it enables cyclist X to perform better, but because cyclist X is being encouraged to risk his life and health. And as the supplier, I regard you as a more immoral person than any cyclist who benefits from your products.

So as far as I'm concerned, get back under your rock. And don't come out until you have grasped that doping first and foremost a health issue.

You ain't "swimming against the tide" - you are drowning in your own hypocrisy....

I do enjoy how you equate what Joe has done to manslaughter and calling what he did evil - and then turn around on the Armstrong threads and say Armstrong should not be prosecuted and we should "move on".

Yes - what Joe did (selling) was particularly hideous. Thankfully he was caught, sanctioned and barely escaped prison because he co-operated.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I personally don't mind discussing something if it has some sort of footing, the problem with discussing a person based on a rumour you heard from someone who knew someone who rode with Boardman, is that after all the innuendo starts flying around, we end up with "Boardman probably doped otherwise it wouldn't be so 'widely' discussed". An interesting read right now would be a rumour dissemination social experiment.

+ 1 to this.

Is Boardman worthy of discussion? Personally, no - there has never been anything on him*.

But - there have been threads started here about peoples jawline so I don't understand the reaction - just because one or two people here feel everyone doped (and any odd rumour or innuendo is a confirmation) - this is not a court, no-one is convicted because of an internet forum.
Most rational people are able to read the posts and come to their own conclusions.

One thing that surprises me is that Joe sought information from a 10 year old rumour - I do not claim insider knowledge, however I do know many within the sport at all levels as Joe does - and the only thing I do know is that there is a rumour on everyone (not just PEDs) and that most are completely false. Pro cycling is like a sowing circle of old women.

 

[euanli]

Very reasoned response

Pro cycling is like a sowing circle of old women.

As are most pro cycling fans

 

[Von Mises]

Please point me to cyclists with 91 VO2 max or above.

Last I knew was Greg and Hinault. Nowdays riders try to keep it confidential anyway.

Rein Taaramae himself have said, that his VO2 max has been measured 87-88. For intance two years ago in one interview he mentioned, that in 2005 (he was 18 then) his VO2 max was measured 87. But he added that he does not take VO2 max numbers too seriuously, cause measurements are not made when you are in top form, but usually off-season.

 

[simo1733]

Did Joe pick Boardman to throw mud at, because Chris rep is so clean?

 

[B_Ugli]

I do not claim insider knowledge, however I do know many within the sport at all levels as Joe does - and the only thing I do know is that there is a rumour on everyone (not just PEDs) and that most are completely false

You have hit the nail on the head here. Anyone who has raced to a certain level in the UK, States or Europe in the past 15 years will have heard "rumours" about certain riders. Sometimes the motivation behind it is nothing more than somebody not doing a turn in a break, somebody giving a funny look or even flicking somebody in a sprint.

In my view any responsible person takes what they hear with a pinch of salt and keeps it to themselves. To do otherwise makes others question your motivation for doing so.

 

[gillan1969]

Did Joe pick Boardman to throw mud at, because Chris rep is so clean?

some of the credence given to riders who are 'famously' clean is the legitimacy given when ex-dopers and doctors or siogneurs talking about them being so...

not sure Joe's approach fits in with that.....i.e. they tend to give non-dopers a degree of respect

the issue is less with those who idly speculate and more with the reams and reams and reams and...eh...reams of riders who have been caught doping...frankly if you win a pro race the most rationale response is to assume doping....let alone the blue riband event in the most epo riven erea there has been...

 

[Markyboyzx6r]

It's amazing how bent some people get and how incapable they are of rationally and dispassionately discussing a topic. I merely asked if there was ever any suspicion about Boardman, noted that I didn't follow his career and wasn't alleging he'd done anything wrong, but revealed that one of the only UK riders I knew, who himself would later be caught using PED's, told me 10+ years ago that he himself heard it suggested by two other elite UK riders that CB raced on bread and water his entire career except for one of his hour records.

It would have been very easy for folks more familiar w/ Boardman's career to simply post that there hadn't been any suspicion over his rides - if that was the case - and leave it at that. Instead some of you crumble into a pack of howling monkeys and go so far as to mistakenly think you have the need - or moral right - to start attacking me in order to protect your hero. Get a grip. Focus on the topic, not the people discussing it. Unless that's not your interest.

As I said before, I appreciate the reasoned, rational responses that were posted answering my initial inquiry. As to the haters, whiners, howler monkeys - whatever. Attack as much as you want - you just reveal yourselves to be incapable of any rational discourse.

So, Mr Papp, let me get this right...

According to your mates in the UK, Chris Boardman raced his entire 10+ year career clean, but decided that he would dope (only on one occasion, mind) for his hour record. So he didn't dope for all the events where he could have made serious money by performing better, but on the one project that was of interest only to those in the cycling community?

So he decided to throw away his entire ethical and moral framework that he had held for his entire career just so he could have 60 minutes in the sun? And you heard this from a friend of a friend? I asked for evidence and that was the best you could come up with. And you call us 'howler monkeys'?? Pfff.

Mate... with your record, I think it's best you keep your head down. Simply cause you couldn't hack it without charging doesn't mean others more talented than you couldn't either. No smoke without fire? All I see is you desperately rubbing two sticks together and getting nay a spark.

Joe - you doped, and you supplied others. That was your choice. If you feel guilty about it, well, that's understandable too. But to use the tired old 'they were all at it - even Boardman' is lazy and insulting. He didn't dope, and yet he was still a success - he therefore was everything that you were not - and that must pinch a bit, eh?

I don't want to have to make personal attacks but this thread definitely calls for it.

 

[Nick C.]

So, Mr Papp, let me get this right...

According to your mates in the UK, Chris Boardman raced his entire 10+ year career clean, but decided that he would dope (only on one occasion, mind) for his hour record. So he didn't dope for all the events where he could have made serious money by performing better, but on the one project that was of interest only to those in the cycling community?

So he decided to throw away his entire ethical and moral framework that he had held for his entire career just so he could have 60 minutes in the sun? And you heard this from a friend of a friend? I asked for evidence and that was the best you could come up with. And you call us 'howler monkeys'?? Pfff.

Mate... with your record, I think it's best you keep your head down. Simply cause you couldn't hack it without charging doesn't mean others more talented than you couldn't either. No smoke without fire? All I see is you desperately rubbing two sticks together and getting nay a spark.

Joe - you doped, and you supplied others. That was your choice. If you feel guilty about it, well, that's understandable too. But to use the tired old 'they were all at it - even Boardman' is lazy and insulting. He didn't dope, and yet he was still a success - he therefore was everything that you were not - and that must pinch a bit, eh?

I don't want to have to make personal attacks but this thread definitely calls for it.

Wow I mean wow ...

 

[Benotti69]

So, Mr Papp, let me get this right...

According to your mates in the UK, Chris Boardman raced his entire 10+ year career clean, but decided that he would dope (only on one occasion, mind) for his hour record. So he didn't dope for all the events where he could have made serious money by performing better, but on the one project that was of interest only to those in the cycling community?

Well those cyclists who do get caught tend to use the 'i only tried it once' or 'i was going to but didn't' type of excuse. Basso and Frank Schleck are 2 who spring to mind.

 

[andy1234]

As an aside, here is a factoid for those who are interested in Boardmans pedigree....

When Boardman was 15, he held the UK Junior (up to age 18) competition 25 mile TT record with 52.30something.

Thats a 28.5 mph ride, as a kid.
It was in 1984, so no aero bars, no aero helmet, no aero wheels etc, on a standard road bike.

I understand questioning the legitimacy of riders performance when those performances are unbelievable, however Boardman was one of the riders who lost the most from the EPO era.

Watch the finish of this intermediate TDF stage to SuperBesse in 1996.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m81y3I7OY4U
There is more dope in that second group than backstage at a Motley Crue gig, but Boardman is still there.

Rolf Sorensen (Den) Rabobank 4.03.56
2. Orlando Rodrigues (Por) Banesto
3. Richard Virenque (Fra) Festina all s.t.
4. Luc Leblanc (Fra) Polti 0.02
5. Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Roslotto 0.11
6. Miguel Indurain (Spa) Banesto 0.23
7. Chris Boardman (Gbr) GAN
8. Laurent Brochard (Fra) Festina
9. Laurent Dufaux (Swi) Festina
10. Abraham Olano (Spa) Mapei
11. Bjarne Riis (Den) Telekom
12. Peter Luttenberger (Aut) Carrera
13. Patrick Jonker (Aus) ONCE
14. Leonardo Piepoli (Ita) Refin all s.t.
15. Michele Bartoli (Ita) MG-Technogym 0.35
16. Bo Hamburger (Den) TVM 0.51
17. Jan Ullrich (Ger) Telekom
18. Udo Bolts (Ger) Telekom
19. Tony Rominger (Swi) Mapei
20. Fernando Escartin (Spa) Kelme
21. Claudio Chiappucci (Ita) Carrera
22. Yevgeny Berzin (Rus) Gewiss all s.t.

On a level playing field, we probably would have been talking about a multi GT winner, not just a successful TT specialist.

 

[jamiephillips]

^ He's been caught now?

 

[jamiephillips]

Well those cyclists who do get caught tend to use the 'i only tried it once' or 'i was going to but didn't' type of excuse. Basso and Frank Schleck are 2 who spring to mind.

He's been caught now?

 

[BotanyBay]

When Boardman was 15, he held the UK Junior (up to age 18) competition 25 mile TT record with 52.30something.

Thats a 28.5 mph ride, as a kid.
It was in 1984, so no aero bars, no aero helmet, no aero wheels etc, on a standard road bike.

Thanks for that fact. In 1984, I don't know any kids that could crack 1:00, let alone 52:30. John Frey's American Men's 25-mile record was not much better than that (if it even was better).

 

[BotanyBay]

More on Frey (1988):

http://articles.latimes.com/1988-07-24/sports/sp-10362_1_u-s-olympic

Frey Boosts Olympic Cycling Chances With Victory in National 40K Race
July 24, 1988|Associated PressSPOKANE, Wash. —

John Frey of Albuquerque, N.M., the U.S. record-holder in the 40-kilometer individual cycling time trial, won the national title in the event Saturday, boosting his chances for a berth on the U.S. Olympic team.

Norm Alvis of Sacramento, the defending national champion, finished second, and John Stenner of Boulder, Colo., was third.

Frey's winning time on the 24-mile course was 50 minutes 26.16 seconds.

 

[131313]

Thanks for that fact. In 1984, I don't know any kids that could crack 1:00, let alone 52:30. John Frey's American Men's 25-mile record was not much better than that (if it even was better).

Frey's 40KM record is much faster:47:35

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/records.pdf

While this has nothing to do with Boardman doping or not doping, I put almost no stock into those UK times, since a lot of them are course and traffic-aided. There are some simply unbelievable times which you'll never see duplicated on normal courses closed to traffic. There were guys riding sub 50:00 25's with no aero equipment. Sorry, I just don't believe that Alf Angers was really faster than Eddy Merckx.

 

[BigBoat]

As an aside, here is a factoid for those who are interested in Boardmans pedigree....

When Boardman was 15, he held the UK Junior (up to age 18) competition 25 mile TT record with 52.30something.

Thats a 28.5 mph ride, as a kid.
It was in 1984, so no aero bars, no aero helmet, no aero wheels etc, on a standard road bike.
.

The Junior TT is interesting. Power and speed can be 2 different things however.

There is more dope in that second group than backstage at a Motley Crue gig, but Boardman is still there.

Thats where we seem to run into problems. Riis who finished behind him on that day had a 60% crit....so did em....most of the top 20. Then there's Obree's statement he was sacked by his team for not wanting to take drugs.

Its just a little hard to believe. Not that I have anything against Chris Boardman. He seems like a really good guy.

It amazes me the massive amount of criticism Papp gets for speaking his mind. It reminds me of of The GodFather in all honesty. Guys dont admit to doping for a reason. So Andy, and others who dislike Papps sentiment, your contradicting yourself in the sense that you want Papp to shut up, yet you complain that doping is ruining sport. I know Andy hasn't been nearly as mean as some on here so I dont want to directly blame him.

I agree, doping is a negative, the same that prostitution is. But its almost impossible to stop. You can discourage it I guess but.....

 

[acoggan]

In 1984, I don't know any kids that could crack 1:00

You're joking, right? In 1978, I clocked a 56:50 - I was only 19 at the time.