Chris Carmichael: "Lance will match & Exceed AC Speed"

[Race Radio]

For a rider anywhere in the competitive range, dropping 15lbs would almost certainly be a 'magic formula'. This was why everybody was always after Ullrich. The reality, however, is that there shouldn't be anybody in the peleton with 15 spare pounds.

For me, this is the only part of the official Armstrong story that has any theoretical credibility. I've also read that he had a more muscular build pre-cancer. The trouble is, I've never seen any old photos where he looked to me to have a much different build than now. I'm sure this is very old territory on this board, and I apologize for asking, but is anybody aware of any reliable data that LA came away from cancer with a lower body mass?

It is another part of the Armstrong myth

1993 Tour duPont, where is that extra 20 pounds hiding?

Armstrong said he was 64kg for LBL in 1994

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

For a rider anywhere in the competitive range, dropping 15lbs would almost certainly be a 'magic formula'. This was why everybody was always after Ullrich. The reality, however, is that there shouldn't be anybody in the peleton with 15 spare pounds.

For me, this is the only part of the official Armstrong story that has any theoretical credibility. I've also read that he had a more muscular build pre-cancer. The trouble is, I've never seen any old photos where he looked to me to have a much different build than now. I'm sure this is very old territory on this board, and I apologize for asking, but is anybody aware of any reliable data that LA came away from cancer with a lower body mass?

Not sure if it's 15lb, but...

 

[Polish]

chubby lance

Chad Gerlach once poked young Lance in the tummy and called him a "Pillsbury Doughboy".

So Lance sat on him or headlocked him or something

Photo by GWatson I think...

 

[Race Radio]

1994 or 2005?

 

[Race Radio]

1996 or 2005?

 

[Oldman]

For a rider anywhere in the competitive range, dropping 15lbs would almost certainly be a 'magic formula'. This was why everybody was always after Ullrich. The reality, however, is that there shouldn't be anybody in the peleton with 15 spare pounds.

For me, this is the only part of the official Armstrong story that has any theoretical credibility. I've also read that he had a more muscular build pre-cancer. The trouble is, I've never seen any old photos where he looked to me to have a much different build than now. I'm sure this is very old territory on this board, and I apologize for asking, but is anybody aware of any reliable data that LA came away from cancer with a lower body mass?

Another Motorola team member recalls an early season camp with all riders attending. Lance had started a weight training program right before the camp and during 4+weeks apparently added nearly 20 lbs of body mass...none of the trainers/coaches could understand what could account for it because they were not directing Lance's training "program" other than the requisite 4 to 6 hour group rides and strategy sessions. This occurred the season of his cancer diagnosis. Draw your own conclusions.

 

[Digger]

After cancer. Doesn't look light here. LOL

MOD NOTE: Sorry, I removed the photo because it was just too big. Susan

Awww Susan!!!

 

[peloton]

^^nice needle mark

 

[Anonymous]

^^nice needle mark

Not only is there a needle mark, but there is a line where dirt got in the adhesive of the tape that was used to hold the gauze in place afterward. Check that out!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Curious about the photo, if you can re-size it and re-post it. What was it?

Here are the worst excerpts of this horrid interview... Disingenuous myth-building from a guy attempting to add epic status to a rote week-long training camp that, according to Carmichael, should go down in cycling lore as a dramatic turning point in the career of Lance Armstrong.

This is precisely why I called the guy a "hack". Almost certainly doping unwitting riders is what makes him a fraud and gives quality coaches a bad name, IMO.

I'm sure this is very old territory on this board, and I apologize for asking, but is anybody aware of any reliable data that LA came away from cancer with a lower body mass?

No. Catlin said so in his report, but based it on non-verified data, taken from Lance's mouth, from different times in the season. When testifying in the SCA trial and pressed on the issue, Lance admitted his weight was basically the same pre and post cancer, and any differences were negligible. Not 20 pounds, not 15 pounds, maybe not even 1 pound.

Just looking at photos one can see this. Lance maybe lost 2lbs, at most, between 1995 and 1999. He actually seemed a good 5+ over that this year at the Giro, and still a bit heavy when the Tour started. See Race Radio's long post on I believe page 3 here for a better explanation.

 

[peloton]

Not only is there a needle mark, but there is a line where dirt got in the adhesive of the tape that was used to hold the gauze in place afterward. Check that out!

Yeah, they were very visible in the big photo. Fresh blood perhaps?

 

[python]

armstrong’s weight pre and post cancer is indeed one of the most used and misused subjects.

any data derived from armstrong himself, his books or his coaches and promoters is suspect. read on..

The only scientific study attempting to sort out his weight is ed coyles.
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/repri...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

he reports the reduction from 78kg to 72 kg. but it can not be relied on because the study was openly criticized by the peers (coyle admitted several mistakes) and the 72 kg is from armstrong’s mouth not coyles scales. that's a scientific sin to rely on the athlete’s word of mouth because he coyle had armstrong on his scales 8 times!. one word his data is not reliable.

The most reliable and only pertinent data was recorded during the medical checks typically conducted a day before the beginning of any tdf.

some of that data leaked.. heres bianchigirl ‘s post referring to cyclismag article.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=72765&postcount=308

1993 after the words title - 75.1 kg
2003 just before the tour - 74 kg
2004 just before the tour - 77.2 kg
Armstrong’s weight just before the 2009 tour - 74 kg.

my own opinion is armstrong played games w/his weight.

 

[Sprocket01]

I'm sure this is very old territory on this board, and I apologize for asking, but is anybody aware of any reliable data that LA came away from cancer with a lower body mass?

Yes, Catlin is an expert and he says in his report that Lance did drop weight. People say LA looked visably gaunt during the ToF compared to how he used to look during the tour. But the thing is, people are able to take pictures of him at various points in the season and use all types of tricks to claim he did not drop weight. But it was just one of many things that he changed.

Chris Carmichael on how he managed his weight throughout the season...
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8514206//

 

[Sprocket01]

Yeah, they were very visible in the big photo. Fresh blood perhaps?

They get blood tests all the time, of course. This photo looks off season to me so don't know why he would be messing with blood transfusions.

They don't inject EPO into a vein either. They shove it into a large bit of flesh like your thy or your shoulder. Same as injectable steroids.

 

[python]

anything carmichael said about armstrong's weight is suspect as explained in this post

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=103262&postcount=161

and this post

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=72765&postcount=308

 

[Digger]

Yes, Catlin is an expert and he says in his report that Lance did drop weight. People say LA looked visably gaunt during the ToF compared to how he used to look during the tour. But the thing is, people are able to take pictures of him at various points in the season and use all types of tricks to claim he did not drop weight. But it was just one of many things that he changed.

Chris Carmichael on how he managed his weight throughout the season...
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/8514206//

Yawn........

 

[Dr. Maserati]

They get blood tests all the time, of course. This photo looks off season to me so don't know why he would be messing with blood transfusions.

They don't inject EPO into a vein either. They shove it into a large bit of flesh like your thy or your shoulder. Same as injectable steroids.

They were doing blood tests back in 1998 "all the time"?

You are correct about the blood transfusion though - as there wasn't a test for EPO until 2001 and that was what was found in his 1999 sample.

So you are probably correct that it was his steroids hit.

 

[python]

They get blood tests all the time, of course. This photo looks off season to me so don't know why he would be messing with blood transfusions.

They don't inject EPO into a vein either. They shove it into a large bit of flesh like your thy or your shoulder. Same as injectable steroids.

shear garbage

 

[Sprocket01]

They were doing blood tests back in 1998 "all the time"?

But they get their bloods all the time for lactate levels and all the rest of it. Perfectly normal.

So you are probably correct that it was his steroids hit.

But I just stated that they wouldn't inject EPO or steroids into a vein. It's not like heroin. It goes into a big piece of flesh and has to avoid veins, like a flu shot. They would not do it on that part of the arm under any circumstances.

 

[Sprocket01]

This old clip shows you where to do an Intramuscular Injection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otcmsn0Vts

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But they get their bloods all the time for lactate levels and all the rest of it. Perfectly normal.



But I just stated that they wouldn't inject EPO or steroids into a vein. It's not like heroin. It goes into a big piece of flesh and has to avoid veins, like a flu shot. They would not do it on that part of the arm under any circumstances.

Jean-Pierre de Mondenard who worked 10 years in a center for diabetic children explains that an injection done on the outside of the upper arm is very specific: “It is a vaccination, insulin, EPO or growth hormone. What is allowed, like vitamins, iron or recovery products, is done in the buttocks. If need be, an intramuscularly injection can also be done in the thigh. The upper arm doesn’t allow a deep enough injection, so you can only use a small insulin needle. And it is easier to get bruises there.”

 

[Dr. Maserati]

This old clip shows you where to do an Intramuscular Injection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otcmsn0Vts

Thanks - but I am not interested in learning how to inject myself.

But if I ever do I will contact Chris.

 

[Race Radio]

But they get their bloods all the time for lactate levels and all the rest of it. Perfectly normal.

Lactate test's are done with a *** on the finger.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Lactate test's are done with a *** on the finger.

I can't help but think there's a joke at Sprocket's expense in there, somewhere.

 

[Sprocket01]

Okay, just did some research. You can inject EPO either into a vein or into the muscle.

But if they did an injection into the classic bit of your arm, sometimes 20 a day, it would be covered in scar tissue. There is a bandage mark there which suggests it was a blood test and done professionally. It's what happens to me after a blood test.