Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[harryh]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

@harryh (who must be a 12 year sneaking on mommie's computer based on his juvenile name calling of Contador) and TI-Raleigh
How is this year more predictive when in the key event, one rider had a decided and obvious advantage regardless of how you perceive Contador's choice to ride both Giro and Tour? If anything Froome's results in the 2nd of back to back grand tours would do little to support your position. 2014 is more indicative of how close the two are when they are close to similar form than the 2015 Tour. Most predictive would be their battle in the 2014 Vuelta. As you said it's been debated endlessly but that doesn't lessen the impact and importance of that events ultimate result.

Edit: Additionally with the two riders having dissimiliar season goals it could be argued that in 2015 Contador had to reserve energies for the task ahead while Froome was free to pick and choose events to get results in all while building for the Tour. Contador's path was a trek into the unknown, led only by the experience of Basso's Giro-Tour failed attempt in 2005, one that was a planned challenge, while Contador's first effort at the Giro-Tour double was not.

 

[dacooley]

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

 

[harryh]

Re: Re:

@harryh (who must be a 12 year sneaking on mommie's computer based on his juvenile name calling of Contador) and TI-Raleigh

Aren't we all 12 years old, alien vs chipmunk you know.

 

[Angliru]

Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Is this in response to my post and if so how did you conclude that this is the point that I was making? I was just about to pay you a compliment on being so reasonable and balanced in your posts. Apparently your true colors have emerged. I thought my post was a rational description of the differences in each rider's prep for the Tour that could have had an effect on both their performances in events prior to the Tour and the Tour itself.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Is this in response to my post and if so how did you conclude that this is the point that I was making? I was just about to pay you a compliment on being so reasonable and balanced in your posts. Apparently your true colors have emerged. I thought my post was a rational description of the differences in each rider's prep for the Tour that could have had an effect on both their performances in events prior to the Tour and the Tour itself.

absolutely not. i was just being ironic on ray j's posts. when discussing froome and bertie, flatness of some posters fails to amaze me.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

@harryh (who must be a 12 year sneaking on mommie's computer based on his juvenile name calling of Contador) and TI-Raleigh

Aren't we all 12 years old, alien vs chipmunk you know.

I often do sometimes feel like a twelve year old when I'm riding my bike! Maybe that's why I love it so much.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Is this in response to my post and if so how did you conclude that this is the point that I was making? I was just about to pay you a compliment on being so reasonable and balanced in your posts. Apparently your true colors have emerged. I thought my post was a rational description of the differences in each rider's prep for the Tour that could have had an effect on both their performances in events prior to the Tour and the Tour itself.

absolutely not. i was just being ironic on ray j's posts. when discussing froome and bertie, flatness of some posters fails to amaze me.

It's difficult to ascertain when you don't quote a post. I'm guessng "flatness" means lacking a sense of humour? You do realize we have posters from all over the world on here so to readily know what is the actual intent of a post is sometimes rather difficult. Plus I am occasionally slow on the uptake, so please excuse me.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Yes just like Froome fans apply this logic to Contador whenever Contador beats Froome.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

Let's see

2013
Oman
Froome 1 - 2 Contador
Tirreno
Froome 2 - 3 Contador
Dauphine
Froome 1 - 10 Contador
Tour
Froome 1 - 4 Contador

2014
Catalunya
Froome 6 - 2 Contador
Dauphiné
Froome 12 - 2 Contador
Vuelta
Froome 2 - 1 Contador

2015
Andalucia
Froome 1 - 2 Contador
Catalunya
Froome 71 - 4 Contador
Tour
Froome 1 - 5 Contador

Just the facts
If 2014 was close how come 2015 and 2013 were not close? Oh right Froome fan logic In 2014 both were strong yet Contador beat Froome 3/3. Froome fans cannot stand the truth and just like their idol they will try to wriggle their way out of this uncomfortable position "Contador is a lazy Spanish cheater" "he uses prohibited chain lube" "he attacked in a descent" "he changed his bike" "he does not speak English" "he is an old chipmunk" "he lied about his injury" Fact is both have had their ups and downs during the last few years. Fact is Contador was still at a decent level during those downs and Froome was (warning hyperbole) downright garbage. Fact is Contador beat Froome when both were strong.
Opinion: Contador "the old chipmunk" is a better, stronger, smarter and above all MORE LIKEABLE rider than Froome
Agree or disagree this is my opinion, it isn't gonna change

Froome fans are like their idol, "holier than thou" attitude, so much better than everyone else Look into the mirror before you criticize others, none of you are any better than the Contador fans you whine about so much. I know and admit I am biased, hence why I state " my opinion", it's time you do the same and don't try to push your opinions down everyone's throats as if they were facts.

/rant

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Yes just like Froome fans apply this logic to Contador whenever Contador beats Froome.

i personally many times said for me it's a draw. however, if bertie fans sincerely think that the vuelta 2014 is an objective benchmark of the guys' strength or an on form contador is unbeatable, they should always get ready for the opposite camp claiming that an on form froome is unbeatable too. though, any suchlike statements is not a level of really reasonable discussion imo.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

well,if froome wins grand tour, it occurs only because there's no proper opposition or rivals are not in top shape. however if he loses, that's entirely legit state of things regardless froome's form. lol, amazing logic. then such a reasoning can be applied to ANY other rider.

Yes just like Froome fans apply this logic to Contador whenever Contador beats Froome.

i personally many times said for me it's a draw. however, if bertie fans sincerely think that the vuelta 2014 is an objective benchmark of the guys' strength or an on form contador is unbeatable, they should always get ready for the opposite camp claiming that an on form froome is unbeatable too. though, any suchlike statements is not a level of really reasonable discussion imo.

I don't think 2014 is a perfect benchmark but I think it is the best we have. I also think an on form Contador is very hard to beat but he is not unbeatable. I think he and Froome are very close when in top shape but if I had to bet I would bet for Contador cause he is a "smarter" racer in my opinion. 2014 Vuelta and also Andalucia showed that if they are both in similar shape they will trade blows.

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

2015 =Well he could have tried if he had the balls to have entered the Giro but he did not . Lucky for him as Astana would have kicked his as% and Aru will kick it in next years tour.
I doubt Froome would be capable of finishing the Tour if he had rode the Giro. He was hanging on for his life with a week and a half to go. If he had the giro in his legs he would have dropped out. He always ill you know

I do recall at the start of the season "2015" Bertie beating Froome in a tt and dropping froome from 10km?
Did you miss that one?

 

[pastronef]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

2015 =Well he could have tried if he had the balls to have entered the Giro but he did not . Lucky for him as Astana would have kicked his as% and Aru will kick it in next years tour.
I doubt Froome would be capable of finishing the Tour if he had rode the Giro. He was hanging on for his life with a week and a half to go. If he had the giro in his legs he would have dropped out. He always ill you know

I do recall at the start of the season "2015" Bertie beating Froome in a tt and dropping froome from 10km?
Did you miss that one?

Froome has no interest in the Giro. why should he ride the Giro and risk losing the Tour?
Tour is 100%. there is no reason to ride the Giro. he was never supposed to ride it.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Let's not even get started with the 2015 Giro arguments again. That is a rabbit-hole that nobody should venture down into again.

Fans of riders are going to have strong opinions. My problem with quite a few Contador fans is that they IMO tend to be more aggressive in other rider's threads, especially with riders who they view as Contador's big antagonists. Some of it is needlessly inflammatory (i.e saying that both Froome's GT wins were lucky, that he is a coward, etc). But other stuff like the uproar over Froome calling Quintana 'Little Colombian' often seems like posters looking for conflict for the sake of conflict. YMMV....

Also, I would ban the use of 'Alien' from the professional road racing thread as its connotations are pretty obvious. (Yes, no one will admit to using it in that manner, but c'mon..... )

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

2015 =Well he could have tried if he had the balls to have entered the Giro but he did not . Lucky for him as Astana would have kicked his as% and Aru will kick it in next years tour.
I doubt Froome would be capable of finishing the Tour if he had rode the Giro. He was hanging on for his life with a week and a half to go. If he had the giro in his legs he would have dropped out. He always ill you know

I do recall at the start of the season "2015" Bertie beating Froome in a tt and dropping froome from 10km?
Did you miss that one?

it's just a bias. contador has his own career and plans, so does froome. no one should copy anyone's schedule in this regard and no one owes anything to anyone. bertie decided to try to do the giro-tour double, though the buffer between him and froome in 2014 had shown the likelihood of the double was tiny little imo. froome got beaten in the vuelta but generally speaking he was nearby contador. if you accuse froome of cowardice and not going to the giro, you should see the opposite side of the medals - contador dodging a straightforward battle against froome in the tour.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

errrrr what happened to Froome at the Vuelta when TD beat him. Infact what happened to Froome all the times he got his ass kicked this year and last. TJ beat him at the dauphine.

Fact Purito at his best proved himself the king of shortish steep climbs.

You always pick stuff that fits your argument but in no way gives a balanced view.

You have still yet to answer how Bertie kicked Froome's ass all last season?

OK, I'll bite.

You must have watched a different Dauphine than I did. In the one I watched, Froome dropped TJ on two summit finishes and won the overall.

If you are again leaning on 2014 to build an argument that Contador is better than Froome, you are foolish. We have a whole new season to gather evidence as to who the best is right now. Besides, 2014 has been debated to death on these boards.

In 2015, Contador beat Froome at only one race, Catalunya.

Froome opened up the season by dropping Contador in Andalucia (a great and telling race you always overlook, except when mentioning Hazallanas, which is only half the story).

Then Catalunya, where Contador was superior to Froome but not superior to Pozzovivio, Valverde, or Porte.

They didn't meet again until the TdF. It was clear to everyone that for whatever reason, Contador did not have it. Despite repeated efforts, he failed to EVER seriously challenge for yellow.

I'm not sure how anyone can look at this year or last year and say that "Bertie kicked Froome's ass."

And didn't he?

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

So you think Froome was way better this year, cause I don't. Froome won Tour, Contador won Giro. In one race they were in similar condition, Froome won by 2 seconds, with stage wins for both of them. Froome was better, but not by much

 

[ray j willings]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

2015 =Well he could have tried if he had the balls to have entered the Giro but he did not . Lucky for him as Astana would have kicked his as% and Aru will kick it in next years tour.
I doubt Froome would be capable of finishing the Tour if he had rode the Giro. He was hanging on for his life with a week and a half to go. If he had the giro in his legs he would have dropped out. He always ill you know

I do recall at the start of the season "2015" Bertie beating Froome in a tt and dropping froome from 10km?
Did you miss that one?

it's just a bias. contador has his own career and plans, so does froome. no one should copy anyone's schedule in this regard and no one owes anything to anyone. bertie decided to try to do the giro-tour double, though the buffer between him and froome in 2014 had shown the likelihood of the double was tiny little imo. froome got beaten in the vuelta but generally speaking he was nearby contador. if you accuse froome of cowardice and not going to the giro, you should see the opposite side of the medals - contador dodging a straightforward battle against froome in the tour.

Bertie has never avoided Froome. Did he not line up at last years tour ? did he not line up at this years tour?
Did he not line up at last years Vuelta? Did he not line up in 2013 tour? did he line up at last years dauphine?
Did Froome line up in this years giro ?
Who has avoided who?

 

[djpbaltimore]

And Froome has never avoided Contador.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

And Froome has never avoided Contador.

Tirreno-Adriatico

 

[djpbaltimore]

Which year? He was injured and then ill the past two years.

 

[Electress]

Re:

Let's not even get started with the 2015 Giro arguments again. That is a rabbit-hole that nobody should venture down into again.

Fans of riders are going to have strong opinions. My problem with quite a few Contador fans is that they IMO tend to be more aggressive in other rider's threads, especially with riders who they view as Contador's big antagonists. Some of it is needlessly inflammatory (i.e saying that both Froome's GT wins were lucky, that he is a coward, etc). But other stuff like the uproar over Froome calling Quintana 'Little Colombian' often seems like posters looking for conflict for the sake of conflict. YMMV....

Also, I would ban the use of 'Alien' from the professional road racing thread as its connotations are pretty obvious. (Yes, no one will admit to using it in that manner, but c'mon..... )

This can be levelled the other way - I left the forum for a while because I was sick to back teeth of Froome fans in the Contador thread post the Tour Velta, just as I was sick of many of the same fans trolling, posting unwarranted speculation about 'made up injuries' during the Giro and being ungenerous enough to try spoil the post Giro enjoyment of Contador's Giro win. No one expect's a love-in for every rider, and there'll always be disagreements - its a forum -bt t is possible to view and have opinions on Froome without considering Contador at all. My own opinion of him is entirely divorced from AC - and is much more related to 2012 and his own team than it is to anything else.

Nothing makes me want Froome to leave cycling - or indeed, almost make me look forward to Contador retiring - than the endless and rather nasty debate about 'who is best' which so frequently descends into childish stupidity both this and the AC thread.

And just to be clear - my recent post in this thread had nothing whatever to do with Contador. I was actually a comment on what I felt was a lack of grace on Froome's part to Quintana - perhaps it wasn't deliberate, but it was rather thoughtless, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[djpbaltimore]

There is a stark difference between the Froome and Contador threads IMO. The latter is almost exclusively an appreciation thread. You have to scroll back pages to find anything negative. This thread is filled with ridicule, opinions stated as fact, and bullying. People can post where they want, but they should be prepared to be called out when they make ridiculous claims.

 

[del1962]

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

As I stated, the 2014 season has been debated to death. However, ass kicking implies that there was a large gap between riders. That was not the case in 2014; it was very close between both.

Regardless of 2014, this year is much more valuable in predictive power for the future. So we should be spending more time analyzing that than arguing about who was better in '14.

Yep, it was very close in 2014. In 2013 and 2015 the mighty Froome kicked the old chipmunk's ass. So in the average of three years it's Froome who has been the man.

Let's see

2013
Oman
Froome 1 - 2 Contador
Tirreno
Froome 2 - 3 Contador
Dauphine
Froome 1 - 10 Contador
Tour
Froome 1 - 4 Contador

2014
Catalunya
Froome 6 - 2 Contador
Dauphiné
Froome 12 - 2 Contador
Vuelta
Froome 2 - 1 Contador

2015
Andalucia
Froome 1 - 2 Contador
Catalunya
Froome 71 - 4 Contador
Tour
Froome 1 - 5 Contador

Just the facts
If 2014 was close how come 2015 and 2013 were not close? Oh right Froome fan logic In 2014 both were strong yet Contador beat Froome 3/3. Froome fans cannot stand the truth and just like their idol they will try to wriggle their way out of this uncomfortable position "Contador is a lazy Spanish cheater" "he uses prohibited chain lube" "he attacked in a descent" "he changed his bike" "he does not speak English" "he is an old chipmunk" "he lied about his injury" Fact is both have had their ups and downs during the last few years. Fact is Contador was still at a decent level during those downs and Froome was (warning hyperbole) downright garbage. Fact is Contador beat Froome when both were strong.
Opinion: Contador "the old chipmunk" is a better, stronger, smarter and above all MORE LIKEABLE rider than Froome
Agree or disagree this is my opinion, it isn't gonna change

Froome fans are like their idol, "holier than thou" attitude, so much better than everyone else Look into the mirror before you criticize others, none of you are any better than the Contador fans you whine about so much. I know and admit I am biased, hence why I state " my opinion", it's time you do the same and don't try to push your opinions down everyone's throats as if they were facts.

/rant

I know I shouldn't respond but this forum needs some objectivity from time to time. Your argument is hysterical. Froome dominated the opening two stages of the Dauphine. Winning the ITT convincingly and then following up that with a superb performance on the second stage. Contador was with him all the time but, to me, Froome was clearly the stronger one and it looked like Contador was pretty tired at the finish. And before you start ranting about me "being a delusional fanboy", ask yourself this, how often has Contador never attacked when in good shape?