Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

If Froome did ride this route, other than a crash is there anyway he doesn't win (i'm assuming he gets the A-team)?

If Nibali gets back to 2013/2014 we'd be in for one helluva fight, where Froome has the TT's and the train, and were Nibali has the descents.

I hope the Olympics hasn't affected his downhill confidence.

Anyone would think that Nibali is the only one that can descend well. Evans and Gilbert were always good as was Sanchez, Sagan and Cancellara. Bardet is also very good. Second last stage of the Tour Nibali descended like a toddler and watched two riders ride away from him on the final descent on a wet road but then I guess he had the Olympics on his mind. But if he was worried about the conditions and the descent why attack at all ? Nibali won't beat Froome on descents and probably not at all in a GT. Nibali struggled to win the Giro this year, a race Froome would have won by five minutes. Nibali getting back to 2014 form is like hoping Contador will get back to 2011 form. Peraud made the podium in 2014 and that is all you need to know. It's like saying that Murray won a tennis tournament but Djokovic or Nadal were not playing.

 

[Ricco']

Re:

Right, because there has been a single race with Froome going for GC where Nibali was any kind of factor. Not.

Tour 2014, Sheffield stage.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

You know it's off season when people are actually discussing Froome doing il Giro

Yeah. I do find it surprisingly lacking in polls though

 

[MatParker117]

Potential race program:
January 29 Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (Australia)
February 1 -5 Jayco Herald Sun Tour (Australia)
March 20-28 Volta a Catalunya (Spain)
April 23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Belgium)
April 28-30 Tour de Yorkshire (Great Britain)
May 14-20 Tour of California (USA)
June 4-10 Critérium du Dauphiné France)
July 1-23 Tour de France
Date TBC Vuelta a España (Spain)

 

[pastronef]

Re:

Potential race program:
January 29 Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (Australia)
February 1 -5 Jayco Herald Sun Tour (Australia)
March 20-28 Volta a Catalunya (Spain)
April 23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Belgium)
April 28-30 Tour de Yorkshire (Great Britain)
May 14-20 Tour of California (USA)
June 4-10 Critérium du Dauphiné France)
July 1-23 Tour de France
Date TBC Vuelta a España (Spain)

California? Sky have to give some chances to their other guys.
talking about Yorkshire, the weather has been bad like in Romandie lately, so it could be.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

Potential race program:
January 29 Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race (Australia)
February 1 -5 Jayco Herald Sun Tour (Australia)
March 20-28 Volta a Catalunya (Spain)
April 23 Liège-Bastogne-Liège (Belgium)
April 28-30 Tour de Yorkshire (Great Britain)
May 14-20 Tour of California (USA)
June 4-10 Critérium du Dauphiné France)
July 1-23 Tour de France
Date TBC Vuelta a España (Spain)

California? Sky have to give some chances to their other guys.
talking about Yorkshire, the weather has been bad like in Romandie lately, so it could be.

Would rather see Chris start with Oman and then Paris-Nice

 

[CTQ]

The Tour of California and the Tour de Yorkshire are also events Froome would like to race in the future but assuming the Tour de France remains his principle focus, then a traditional route to July with either Tirreno-Adriatico or Paris-Nice, and then the Tour of Romandie and Critérium du Dauphiné in June should form the backbone of his season. quote from Cyclingnews

 

[sir fly]

Considering his intention to aim for Tour - Vuelta, some tweaks in schedule are possible.
ToC instead of Romadie, for example, looks to me like a buildup with Vuelta in mind

 

[ferryman]

Re: Re:

If Froome did ride this route, other than a crash is there anyway he doesn't win (i'm assuming he gets the A-team)?

If Nibali gets back to 2013/2014 we'd be in for one helluva fight, where Froome has the TT's and the train, and were Nibali has the descents.

I hope the Olympics hasn't affected his downhill confidence.

Anyone would think that Nibali is the only one that can descend well. Evans and Gilbert were always good as was Sanchez, Sagan and Cancellara. Bardet is also very good. Second last stage of the Tour Nibali descended like a toddler and watched two riders ride away from him on the final descent on a wet road but then I guess he had the Olympics on his mind. But if he was worried about the conditions and the descent why attack at all ? Nibali won't beat Froome on descents and probably not at all in a GT. Nibali struggled to win the Giro this year, a race Froome would have won by five minutes. Nibali getting back to 2014 form is like hoping Contador will get back to 2011 form. Peraud made the podium in 2014 and that is all you need to know. It's like saying that Murray won a tennis tournament but Djokovic or Nadal were not playing.

A race Froome has never and never will win. When Quintana wins the Tour this year there will be 3 great champions in the current peloton with that magical treble under their belt.

 

[hazaran]

That "magic treble" is the hallmark of guys who aren't good enough to win the Tour reliably.

 

[yaco]

Think parts of that schedule are a wish list - Imagine Froome will again start in Australia, though you have to question the Tour of California and the Tour of Yorkshire.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

If Froome did ride this route, other than a crash is there anyway he doesn't win (i'm assuming he gets the A-team)?

If Nibali gets back to 2013/2014 we'd be in for one helluva fight, where Froome has the TT's and the train, and were Nibali has the descents.

I hope the Olympics hasn't affected his downhill confidence.

Anyone would think that Nibali is the only one that can descend well. Evans and Gilbert were always good as was Sanchez, Sagan and Cancellara. Bardet is also very good. Second last stage of the Tour Nibali descended like a toddler and watched two riders ride away from him on the final descent on a wet road but then I guess he had the Olympics on his mind. But if he was worried about the conditions and the descent why attack at all ? Nibali won't beat Froome on descents and probably not at all in a GT. Nibali struggled to win the Giro this year, a race Froome would have won by five minutes. Nibali getting back to 2014 form is like hoping Contador will get back to 2011 form. Peraud made the podium in 2014 and that is all you need to know. It's like saying that Murray won a tennis tournament but Djokovic or Nadal were not playing.

A race Froome has never and never will win. When Quintana wins the Tour this year there will be 3 great champions in the current peloton with that magical treble under their belt.

wow, what an evil anti-froome lobby you actually have... speechless.

 

[Jspear]

Re:

That "magic treble" is the hallmark of guys who aren't good enough to win the Tour reliably.

Or won by those who truly appreciate the cycling that Italy and Spain have to offer.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Its funny to think about this guy ferryman has been a moderator, thank god he is gone now.

 

[Red Rick]

The last time I checked, current and former moderators and admins were allowed to post their opinions.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

The last time I checked, current and former moderators and admins were allowed to post their opinions.

Obviously he is, but there is a difference between being respectful and posting the same old, biased anti-Froome/Sky stuff that I always find myself reading when I see his posts.

There is some truth to both viewpoints, but Froome has never really had the need to go to Italy and prove himself since the Tour obviously is the biggest objective (with quite a margin) and it could jeopardise his performance in July. Lets not forget that he has raced the Vuelta a bunch of times, often after the Tour despite him not necessarily needing to. Thats much better than Armstrong - only some circumstances has kept him from winning in 2011 and 2016. And while we are at it, without being a Froome-supporter at all, chances are he would have won that Vuelta in 2015 considering that relatively bad level that year. He is Tour-centric, but not to the extent that MANY other of the biggest riders who target the TdF have been and is.

Lets not forget either that Contador didn't really have any opportunities than riding the Giro in 2008 and 2011 - you can argue he only 'voluntarily' raced the Giro in 2015. An argument can also be put forth that if any of them was supposed to ride the Giro at this point, it would be Contador - yet, the Tour seems to be the only thing which motivates him to continue by now. Not really that much of a better mentality, referring to the Tour-centric programme, than Froome.
Nibali is Italian, so he is obviously gonna ride the Giro a bunch of times. Valverde had unfinished business in 2014 and wanted to go as a sole leader and along with the favourable parcours in 2014 for Quintana in the Giro, he was sent there.

I guess all Im trying to say is his post lack nuance. A lot of nuance, thus the comment I thought it was good he wasn't a moderator. You should obviously able to express you opinions as a moderator, but the highly biased, anti-Froomey, sin nuance stuff that ferryman posts isn't something that you would want a moderator to post IMO. It could lead to some thinking that the moderation at times is biased and similar stuff.

 

[Poursuivant]

Re: Re:

The last time I checked, current and former moderators and admins were allowed to post their opinions.

Obviously he is, but there is a difference between being respectful and posting the same old, biased anti-Froome/Sky stuff that I always find myself reading when I see his posts.

There is some truth to both viewpoints, but Froome has never really had the need to go to Italy and prove himself since the Tour obviously is the biggest objective (with quite a margin) and it could jeopardise his performance in July. Lets not forget that he has raced the Vuelta a bunch of times, often after the Tour despite him not necessarily needing to. Thats much better than Armstrong - only some circumstances has kept him from winning in 2011 and 2016. And while we are at it, without being a Froome-supporter at all, chances are he would have won that Vuelta in 2015 considering that relatively bad level that year. He is Tour-centric, but not to the extent that MANY other of the biggest riders who target the TdF have been and is.

Lets not forget either that Contador didn't really have any opportunities than riding the Giro in 2008 and 2011 - you can argue he only 'voluntarily' raced the Giro in 2015. An argument can also be put forth that if any of them was supposed to ride the Giro at this point, it would be Contador - yet, the Tour seems to be the only thing which motivates him to continue by now. Not really that much of a better mentality, referring to the Tour-centric programme, than Froome.
Nibali is Italian, so he is obviously gonna ride the Giro a bunch of times. Valverde had unfinished business in 2014 and wanted to go as a sole leader and along with the favourable parcours in 2014 for Quintana in the Giro, he was sent there.

I guess all Im trying to say is his post lack nuance. A lot of nuance, thus the comment I thought it was good he wasn't a moderator. You should obviously able to express you opinions as a moderator, but the highly biased, anti-Froomey, sin nuance stuff that ferryman posts isn't something that you would want a moderator to post IMO. It could lead to some thinking that the moderation at times is biased and similar stuff.

Nice post.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

[...]It could lead to some thinking that the moderation at times is biased and similar stuff.

That would require a leap. The more logical conclusion would be that it could lead to some thinking that the moderator is biased. Well, no ***, Sherlock. It should come as no surprise that pretty much everyone here has some level of passion regarding the sport, which does bias them. That is true for all mods. The question is if they are able to mod at an acceptable quality despite that, either by not being very biased or knowing how to handle said bias in a way that it doesn't compromise the modding (like checking for a second opinion, when said bias comes in play). All (current and future) mods make mistakes, for sure, but as long as they aren't too big and willing to learn from them, then I don't think we can ask for more. And I think the focus should be on that, and that only.

 

[del1962]

Re: Re:

If Froome did ride this route, other than a crash is there anyway he doesn't win (i'm assuming he gets the A-team)?

If Nibali gets back to 2013/2014 we'd be in for one helluva fight, where Froome has the TT's and the train, and were Nibali has the descents.

I hope the Olympics hasn't affected his downhill confidence.

Anyone would think that Nibali is the only one that can descend well. Evans and Gilbert were always good as was Sanchez, Sagan and Cancellara. Bardet is also very good. Second last stage of the Tour Nibali descended like a toddler and watched two riders ride away from him on the final descent on a wet road but then I guess he had the Olympics on his mind. But if he was worried about the conditions and the descent why attack at all ? Nibali won't beat Froome on descents and probably not at all in a GT. Nibali struggled to win the Giro this year, a race Froome would have won by five minutes. Nibali getting back to 2014 form is like hoping Contador will get back to 2011 form. Peraud made the podium in 2014 and that is all you need to know. It's like saying that Murray won a tennis tournament but Djokovic or Nadal were not playing.

A race Froome has never and never will win. When Quintana wins the Tour this year there will be 3 great champions in the current peloton with that magical treble under their belt.

Nah there is only one in the current peloton who has done the magic treble, the only one to do it since big mig retired, those other races compared to the tour are like the Scottish Premier league to the English premier league

 

[Escarabajo]

Big Mig won the Vuelta?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

If Froome did ride this route, other than a crash is there anyway he doesn't win (i'm assuming he gets the A-team)?

If Nibali gets back to 2013/2014 we'd be in for one helluva fight, where Froome has the TT's and the train, and were Nibali has the descents.

I hope the Olympics hasn't affected his downhill confidence.

Anyone would think that Nibali is the only one that can descend well. Evans and Gilbert were always good as was Sanchez, Sagan and Cancellara. Bardet is also very good. Second last stage of the Tour Nibali descended like a toddler and watched two riders ride away from him on the final descent on a wet road but then I guess he had the Olympics on his mind. But if he was worried about the conditions and the descent why attack at all ? Nibali won't beat Froome on descents and probably not at all in a GT. Nibali struggled to win the Giro this year, a race Froome would have won by five minutes. Nibali getting back to 2014 form is like hoping Contador will get back to 2011 form. Peraud made the podium in 2014 and that is all you need to know. It's like saying that Murray won a tennis tournament but Djokovic or Nadal were not playing.

A race Froome has never and never will win. When Quintana wins the Tour this year there will be 3 great champions in the current peloton with that magical treble under their belt.

The only reason Froome won't win the Giro is if he doesn't race it. Next year's course is a good one for him but he won't ride it and if he wins his fourth Tour I would say that the chance to win an official record equaling fifth Tour would be too big a carrot to decline in 2018. So 2019 maybe and by then he will probably have improved competition or the anti Sky block would hope so and Froome may be on the decline by then possibly. I can't see Froome losing the Tour in 2017 but if he does I would rather see him forget the Vuelta and ride the Giro in 2018 and try the Giro/Vuelta. But to be honest I see Sky continuing with the Tour with Froome especially if he keeps winning and giving someone else a shot at the Giro. Without Contador's attack Froome would have won the Vuelta as well and I don't see Quintana winning the Tour in 2017 just because he won the Vuelta. Bardet beat Quintana in the Tour and even though Bardet has improved I can't see him beating Froome at the moment.

 

[dacooley]

suchlike disputes increasingly resemble confrontation of 2 fans ideologies. those who really love Bertie and Nibs are always willing to belittle sky (froome). froome suxx, froome will never ever win something, froome is a shame of cycling, unlike Bertie and Nairito he's unable to do any gt doubles (though, he has the best showing in 2 consecutive gts for the last decade), tour is massively overrated (surely because froome and sky take it), while giro and vuelta is a home of real racing, a space where fitting cycling still lives... the list of these judgements can be easily extended. it's all down to something like 'I wholeheartedly welcome any race winner if he defeats froome'. hilarious stuff and amazing reading. keep it up with great job guys.

 

[Red Rick]

Let's keep this about Froome, and not about fan ideologies shall we

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

suchlike disputes increasingly resemble confrontation of 2 fans ideologies. those who really love Bertie and Nibs are always willing to belittle sky (froome). froome suxx, froome will never ever win something, froome is a shame of cycling, unlike Bertie and Nairito he's unable to do any gt doubles (though, he has the best showing in 2 consecutive gts for the last decade), tour is massively overrated (surely because froome and sky take it), while giro and vuelta is a home of real racing, a space where fitting cycling still lives... the list of these judgements can be easily extended. it's all down to something like 'I wholeheartedly welcome any race winner if he defeats froome'. hilarious stuff and amazing reading. keep it up with great job guys.

Froome is the best GT rider in the world. Contador was the best. I would say that using Froome as the benchmark is sensible. Contador has not podiumed a Tour since 2010. Nibali has won one Tour and beat two French guys who have done nothing of note since in a GT. Quintana has not won a Tour. The Tour usually has the best field, the most pressure and is the race all GC riders want to win. Anyone who thinks the Vuelta or Giro are higher quality races is delusional. The racing itself might be more exciting and the races may end up being a better battle sometimes and the routes more interesting but that doesn't mean Froome's performance and the people he beats are overrated. He is beating the best anyway. If riders think they can win the Tour they ride the Tour, if they think the course is a not a good one for them or that they can't win the Tour they ride the other two. I guess real racing only happens when Froome is not around ? But in the first week of this year's Tour he was the only one attacking. I guess if it was another rider attacking with Sagan or riding off the front on a descent that would be great racing. Over the last five years I would say the Vuelta has been the most entertaining race of the three and Froome likes racing in it even though he hasn't won it.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

suchlike disputes increasingly resemble confrontation of 2 fans ideologies. those who really love Bertie and Nibs are always willing to belittle sky (froome). froome suxx, froome will never ever win something, froome is a shame of cycling, unlike Bertie and Nairito he's unable to do any gt doubles (though, he has the best showing in 2 consecutive gts for the last decade), tour is massively overrated (surely because froome and sky take it), while giro and vuelta is a home of real racing, a space where fitting cycling still lives... the list of these judgements can be easily extended. it's all down to something like 'I wholeheartedly welcome any race winner if he defeats froome'. hilarious stuff and amazing reading. keep it up with great job guys.

Seriously, who says all that? There were people who said that he probably can't do doubles and people who said froome doesn't attack, but froome showed that these people are wrong and since he did so nobody said anything like that.

@movingtarget
Saying froome would have beaten nibali easily in 2014 because peraud was 2nd is nonsensical. It's not like peraud didn't beat any other good gc riders and like it really was a fight between peraud and Nibali. Pretty sure nibali could have won the tour by 10 minutes if he wanted to.