Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Contador even now is the more aggressive but these days the attacks don't work as much as before or he pays for them later. Most of Froome's attacks are on stages where he is expected to attack but then in the 2016 Tour he did attack a few times where it wasn't expected. Contador has always taken risks to win races while Froome has a more controlled type of aggression and makes full use of his team. Contador's team in the Tour was a shambles but in previous teams he was definitely helped by the team even if on some stages he went off script as he tends to do. Nibali's team tend to work more in the direction of Sky and sometimes will try and break up or put pressure on the GC riders before the final climb is reached. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Not as controlled as Sky who remind me more of US Postal. Use up everyone in the the team and let the leader loose on the final climb. It's not easy to do over three weeks but luckily those teams were loaded with talent and if one rider has an off day someone else will fill the gap. Most of the time when Froome is in trouble he will have a Sky rider with him.

I only saw an "aggressive" Contador when he was absolutely outclassed by his rivals. It rarely worked.
Froome, on the other hand, was fantastic, this Tour. He attacked more and provided more spectacle than Alberto ever did, at least when he was even a threat for the GC.

Yeah, I mean did contador ever attack when he had the chance to win a gt?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Contador even now is the more aggressive but these days the attacks don't work as much as before or he pays for them later. Most of Froome's attacks are on stages where he is expected to attack but then in the 2016 Tour he did attack a few times where it wasn't expected. Contador has always taken risks to win races while Froome has a more controlled type of aggression and makes full use of his team. Contador's team in the Tour was a shambles but in previous teams he was definitely helped by the team even if on some stages he went off script as he tends to do. Nibali's team tend to work more in the direction of Sky and sometimes will try and break up or put pressure on the GC riders before the final climb is reached. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Not as controlled as Sky who remind me more of US Postal. Use up everyone in the the team and let the leader loose on the final climb. It's not easy to do over three weeks but luckily those teams were loaded with talent and if one rider has an off day someone else will fill the gap. Most of the time when Froome is in trouble he will have a Sky rider with him.

I only saw an "aggressive" Contador when he was absolutely outclassed by his rivals. It rarely worked.
Froome, on the other hand, was fantastic, this Tour. He attacked more and provided more spectacle than Alberto ever did, at least when he was even a threat for the GC.

Yeah, I mean did contador ever attack when he had the chance to win a gt?

Yes I remember seeing that at least once since 2007 ! I remember Contador attacked, the day he left the Tour this year. It was an odd one but he claimed later that he was testing his injury to see whether he could continue or not and we now know the answer to that question.

 

[LaFlorecita]

:lol:

 

[Red Rick]

I'd say the attack on the Formigal stage was pretty relevant for the GC, though MacBair didn't seem to think it was worthy of praise it for some reason.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

I'd say the attack on the Formigal stage was pretty relevant for the GC, though MacBair didn't seem to think it was worthy of praise it for some reason.

Playing devils advocate, he put an attack in, worked his a$$ off all day, and still finished 30 odd seconds further down in the GC than he started. It moved him up places, but didn't help his overall ambitions in the slightest.

But who gives a ***, because it was epic.

 

[yaco]

Seems like Froome will again start in the Herald Sun Tour with a strong chance he will first ride the Cadel Evans race.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Seems like Froome will again start in the Herald Sun Tour with a strong chance he will first ride the Cadel Evans race.

He will probably win the Sun Tour again but the Evans race is not the type he would normally do well in. Needs a harder course and more hills. He will probably ride for one of his team mates instead.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Contador even now is the more aggressive but these days the attacks don't work as much as before or he pays for them later. Most of Froome's attacks are on stages where he is expected to attack but then in the 2016 Tour he did attack a few times where it wasn't expected. Contador has always taken risks to win races while Froome has a more controlled type of aggression and makes full use of his team. Contador's team in the Tour was a shambles but in previous teams he was definitely helped by the team even if on some stages he went off script as he tends to do. Nibali's team tend to work more in the direction of Sky and sometimes will try and break up or put pressure on the GC riders before the final climb is reached. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. Not as controlled as Sky who remind me more of US Postal. Use up everyone in the the team and let the leader loose on the final climb. It's not easy to do over three weeks but luckily those teams were loaded with talent and if one rider has an off day someone else will fill the gap. Most of the time when Froome is in trouble he will have a Sky rider with him.

I only saw an "aggressive" Contador when he was absolutely outclassed by his rivals. It rarely worked.
Froome, on the other hand, was fantastic, this Tour. He attacked more and provided more spectacle than Alberto ever did, at least when he was even a threat for the GC.

This post reminds of children that through innocence and teenagers through ignorance have the attitude that the world actually began when they gained conscious thought and anything that they are not aware of occurring before that monumental point in time, simply could not have happened. I often wonder why I am exposed to posts like this but then I realize that my sign on had timed out and my force field of protection is no longer there leaving me exposed to the radiation of.... I'll stop there before I get banned!

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Seems like Froome will again start in the Herald Sun Tour with a strong chance he will first ride the Cadel Evans race.

He will probably win the Sun Tour again but the Evans race is not the type he would normally do well in. Needs a harder course and more hills. He will probably ride for one of his team mates instead.

Never posted that Froome could win the Cadel Evans race - Have to guess last year's winner Kennaugh or Thomas will be the leaders. It's all about training, seeing the Sky riders rode an extra 60 to 80km after each stage of the Herald Sun Tour. There is a chance the stages for the Herald Sun Tour could be lengthened by 20 to 30kms.

 

[MacBAir]

Re:

I'd say the attack on the Formigal stage was pretty relevant for the GC, though MacBair didn't seem to think it was worthy of praise it for some reason.

Contador never tried to win the Vuelta, that day. Besides that Vuelta against Rodriguez, I don't remember any particular aggressive ride as one of the top3, maybe 4, strongest riders.

Contador never did what Froome did this tour, being actually an aggressive favorite/yellowjersey/strongest rider.

To Angliuru: Let's not get banned, here. Anyway, I first noticed Alberto at the 07 tour, and carefully followed his career. Again, he was never particularly aggressive as a leader/one of the strongest riders.

Certainly not at the Tour. Certainly not like Froome was this year.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

I'd say the attack on the Formigal stage was pretty relevant for the GC, though MacBair didn't seem to think it was worthy of praise it for some reason.

Contador never tried to win the Vuelta, that day. Besides that Vuelta against Rodriguez, I don't remember any particular aggressive ride as one of the top3, maybe 4, strongest riders.

Contador never did what Froome did this tour, being actually an aggressive favorite/yellowjersey/strongest rider.

To Angliuru: Let's not get banned, here. Anyway, I first noticed Alberto at the 07 tour, and carefully followed his career. Again, he was never particularly aggressive as a leader/one of the strongest riders.

Certainly not at the Tour. Certainly not like Froome was this year.

So much trash talking... contador was by far the strongest in le tour 2009 and he still was the one who attacked in arcalis, grand bornand, verbier. he only didn't attack in ventoux. in this tour froome didn't attack one time in the third week so what the fu## are you talking about?

 

[Põhja Konn]

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

Post of the day

 

[Flamin]

Don't think Froomey did those attacks because he knew he was lacking in the climbing department. It's just what he does regardless.

Iirc, he sprinted for boni seconds in one of the early stages in the Dauphiné (don't remember what year) for no apparent reason. People perceived it as a weakness back then as well, but it turned out not to be one at all.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Don't think Froomey did those attacks because he knew he was lacking in the climbing department. It's just what he does regardless.

Iirc, he sprinted for boni seconds in one of the early stages in the Dauphiné (don't remember what year) for no apparent reason. People perceived it as a weakness back then as well, but it turned out not to be one at all.

Yes and no. Pretty sure the Peyresurde descent attack was already planned before the stage, so it had nothing to do with not being able to drop his rivals uphill. However I think that the reason for his crosswind attack was that he thought that he really needs time. I don't know what other people thought so, but for me Quintana was the clear favorites after the Pyrenees because Froome couldn't drop him and because Quintana was expected to become better in the 3rd week. Anyway both his downhill and his crosswind attacks were pretty freakin cool and he definitely deserves a lot of appreciation for it. Nevertheless that doesn't change that both attacks were cool but not incredible and probably both attacks would hardly be remembered if the rest of the race wouldn't have been so dull.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Don't think Froomey did those attacks because he knew he was lacking in the climbing department. It's just what he does regardless.

Iirc, he sprinted for boni seconds in one of the early stages in the Dauphiné (don't remember what year) for no apparent reason. People perceived it as a weakness back then as well, but it turned out not to be one at all.

Yes and no. Pretty sure the Peyresurde descent attack was already planned before the stage, so it had nothing to do with not being able to drop his rivals uphill. However I think that the reason for his crosswind attack was that he thought that he really needs time. I don't know what other people thought so, but for me Quintana was the clear favorites after the Pyrenees because Froome couldn't drop him and because Quintana was expected to become better in the 3rd week. Anyway both his downhill and his crosswind attacks were pretty freakin cool and he definitely deserves a lot of appreciation for it. Nevertheless that doesn't change that both attacks were cool but not incredible and probably both attacks would hardly be remembered if the rest of the race wouldn't have been so dull.

The crosswind move was purely a momentum thing. Can't plan that. No time for calculations. He was near the front which is simply the best position to be in if you don't want to get blown out the back. Whether you're 1, 2 or 5 minutes in front, it's where you want to be no matter what.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

Post of the week

Fixed that bit for you.

 

[MacBAir]

Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

I never saw Alberto attacking on the flat/descent as the strongest rider (or even close) in order to win a race, besides that 2012 Vuelta.

MOD'S EDIT: Doping reference in the PRR.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

The fact that entertainment and Froome are usually two words that don't go together for people that are not fans of Froome was why I liked it. The time gains were small but you could tell from interviews especially with Quintana that the time gains were getting to him even at that stage of the race. Sagan's reaction to finding himself attacking in crosswinds with Froome was priceless. Froome is not developing new skills at all he was just being more spontaneous and he was obviously feeling good. The reason for the inaction was that many riders were more worried about making the podium instead of winning and a first podium is a big deal. Quintana recovered late in the race but it could have quite easily been Porte or Yates on the podium along with Bardet. After the second TT it was clear that Mollema and Yates were starting to weaken and that Froome was not showing any weakness. A fully fit Contador would have changed the race dynamics although not the result not for the winner anyway, but it would have forced riders like Mollema, Yates and Porte to ride more aggressively and the GC time gaps may have opened up even more. It possibly could have also damaged Quintana's podium chances as it was clear that he was just doing enough to hang on until he felt better.

 

[dacooley]

Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

big love for ac and quintana alongside with hate for froome makes people to look at the things from specifically wrong angle. froome had his best tt card to play out in the tour. on top of that, quintana has never been regarded as uncontestedly strongest climber in spite of the fact that he really outclimbed froome in the 2015 tour by about 50 seconds. even as of today, quintana's climbing edge looks quite marginal. HOWEVER, you are putting it as though quintana should destroy froome in week 3 under normal circumstances 10 times out of 10.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

I never saw Alberto attacking on the flat/descent as the strongest rider (or even close) in order to win a race, besides that 2012 Vuelta.

MOD'S EDIT: Doping reference in the PRR.

You're right, usually Contador can just make the difference uphill, and of course he's 10% lighter than Froome which makes it difficult to make attacks on the flat stick.
But I give you:
Tropea stage 2011 Giro
Gap and Pinerolo stage, 2011 Tour
Port de Bales, 2015 Route du Sud
Lanciano stage, 2014 Tirreno-Adriatico
Port de Bales, 2010 TDF
Formigal stage, 2016 Vuelta
Muur van Geraardsbergen, 2012 Eneco Tour
Ologno stage, 2015 Giro
Col d'Eze stage, 2007 Paris-Nice

P.S. I included long raids as well because that's what you seem to be pointing at with your suggestion of the 2012 Vuelta.
I wonder if you can create a list even half as long for Froome?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

The significance and specially entertainment value of Froome's two unconventional attacks are greatly overblown due to a chronic lack of meaningful GC-relevant action in the Tour. He did those attacks because he knew he was lacking a bit in climbing ability compared to previous years and was not yet aware of Quintana being out of form. At that point he thought he needed every second he could get and acted accordingly.

All credit to Froome for developing himself and learning new skills on the bike, but if someone thinks those two shortish attacks makes him a more entertaining and attacking GC-rider than Contador, they should watch the 2011 Giro again and specially the stage to Gardeccia. More action, agressiveness and risk taking in a leaders jersey during one single stage than in Froome's entire career.

Amen my friend

 

[DBotero]

I thought this was Froome thread and this endless trolling about how bad is Froome compared with Contador was moved in this thread http://forum.cyclingnews.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20956&start=840
I think we need one for Froome vs Quintana too if it doesn't exist already.

 

[dacooley]

breaking news: ac supporters (froome haters) really think froome massively sucks compared to contador. on a serious note, i'm really sorry for plenty of posters. im quite sure they would prefer froome to end up with 0 gts whilst he already dared take 3...definetely amen, brothers.

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

breaking news: ac supporters (froome haters) really think froome massively sucks compared to contador. on a serious note, i'm really sorry for plenty of posters. im quite sure they would prefer froome to end up with 0 gts whilst he already dared take 3...definetely amen, brothers.

Insightful new point. This is really news to me. I haven't seen anybody make this valid and unbiased, rational argument before.