Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[boink]

5 4 0 (and counting) > 7 0 0

I rest my case

I don't know why you are counting 2nd places
It's 0 - 4 - 1 vs 2/3 - 2/3 - 3
Both are amazing riders and will go down as among the best in history. Froome for his palmares and dominance, Contador for his palmares and style. Please, have some respect. You know what they say, the only thing worse than a sore loser is an ungracious winner. Your favorite rider just won a big double yet you feel the need to drag down his biggest rival, to make your favorite look better? Just stupid.
Same goes for the poster above. I wish we could stay objective and above all respectful.

Spot on. Two great riders with different strengths. There's no doubt Bertie is the flair rider but strip away the train and you've still got another brilliant all round rider in Froome. If he was French there'd be 50 + miles of TT in next years race and he'd be matched by big Tom only for the overall. The fact that he's won 4 TDFs with such heavy mountain stage bias should underline how strong a rider he is for any neutral.

 

[spalco]

I do think Froome has some way to go to leave an imprint on the history of the sport that's bigger than Contador's, but in head-to-head in the GTs where they both competed he does have the upper hand.

Contador beat Froome in the Vuelta in 2012 and 2014.
Froome beat Contador in Vuelta 2016 (though just second place) and 2017 and in the Tour 2013, 15, 16, 17.

By that metric (not counting Vuelta 2016, because I'm sure Froome wouldn't count it as a victory) it would be 5:2 for Froome, but of course that doesn't take into account that the majority of Contador's wins happened before that.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

5 4 0 (and counting) > 7 0 0

I rest my case

I don't know why you are counting 2nd places
It's 0 - 4 - 1 vs 2/3 - 2/3 - 3
Both are amazing riders and will go down as among the best in history. Froome for his palmares and dominance, Contador for his palmares and style. Please, have some respect. You know what they say, the only thing worse than a sore loser is an ungracious winner. Your favorite rider just won a big double yet you feel the need to drag down his biggest rival, to make your favorite look better? Just stupid.
Same goes for the poster above. I wish we could stay objective and above all respectful.

Agree with this, there is no need to keep opening up the same old debates as they are pointless. Two riders who will go down amongst the greats for their achievements and both had a perfect day yesterday in terms of targets. Both sets of fans should be delighted with what happened yesterday, no need to pour water on the other.

 

[miguelindurain111]

me likes

 

[IndianCyclist]

Given his relative late breakthrough and less high profile youth, how long does Froome have at the top you think?

I think he could be good until even 37/38 years old.

I think he can be top level until 2020. I can't be bothered to find out what that is in age.

He is 32 now.

I think he can be good until 2023

i agree with at most 2020. Quintana, Porte and Dumoulin are the closest challengers and they are only going to get better whereas he is getting older and weaker. The bad days are getting worser with him getting dropped by everyone in GC and the amount of risk taking in the downhills is reducing.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

5th Tour, maybe a real stab at rainbow and then off to Italy I imagine

Would winning the TT in Bergen be a Triple Crown?

No. He would be missing 2/3 of a triple crown, so in reality he would be no closer to it than in any other of the years in which he won his four Tours.

 

[Brullnux]

Given his relative late breakthrough and less high profile youth, how long does Froome have at the top you think?

I think he could be good until even 37/38 years old.

I think he can be top level until 2020. I can't be bothered to find out what that is in age.

He is 32 now.

I think he can be good until 2023

His high mountain climbing isn't what it was two or three years ago. Neither this year nor last year. This Vuelta was won on the shorter uphill sprints (<5km) and the Tour on a wet tt and then a dry one against some pretty average time triallers. He hasn't crushed anyone since 2015. And I don't buy that "he doesn't need to" because that's not Froome's style - if he can destroy the competition in one blow, he will. For him, it makes the rest of the race so much easier. Quintana in good shape and few tt, or dumoulin with two good length time trials in the shape he was in this year, will best him. Maybe not next year but definitely by 2019.

 

[wwabbit]

His high mountain climbing isn't what it was two or three years ago. Neither this year nor last year. This Vuelta was won on the shorter uphill sprints (<5km) and the Tour on a wet tt and then a dry one against some pretty average time triallers. He hasn't crushed anyone since 2015. And I don't buy that "he doesn't need to" because that's not Froome's style - if he can destroy the competition in one blow, he will. For him, it makes the rest of the race so much easier. Quintana in good shape and few tt, or dumoulin with two good length time trials in the shape he was in this year, will best him. Maybe not next year but definitely by 2019.

In 2013/2015 he had vastly different racing programs with different goals than in 2016/2017.
In 2015 especially, there were no ITTs in the Tour, so he was able to allow his TT form to drop and prioritize training on his climbing.
In 2016 and 2017, he's been what I call 'conservatively dominant' mainly so that he can maintain peak form across the Tour (and Olympics in 2016) and the Vuelta

If he feels that he is done with the Vuelta and goes back to prioritizing only the Tour in the years to come, I think there's a good chance that may briefly return to the form he had before 2015 depending on how he handles his aging...

 

[Singer01]

Given his relative late breakthrough and less high profile youth, how long does Froome have at the top you think?

I think he could be good until even 37/38 years old.

I think he can be top level until 2020. I can't be bothered to find out what that is in age.

He is 32 now.

I think he can be good until 2023

i agree with at most 2020. Quintana, Porte and Dumoulin are the closest challengers and they are only going to get better whereas he is getting older and weaker. The bad days are getting worser with him getting dropped by everyone in GC and the amount of risk taking in the downhills is reducing.

Porte is the same age, and Quintana appears to have plateau'd. Dumoulin is most likely to beat him fair and square, or Landa depending on how mountainous the route is.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

I do think Froome has some way to go to leave an imprint on the history of the sport that's bigger than Contador's, but in head-to-head in the GTs where they both competed he does have the upper hand.

Contador beat Froome in the Vuelta in 2012 and 2014.
Froome beat Contador in Vuelta 2016 (though just second place) and 2017 and in the Tour 2013, 15, 16, 17.

By that metric (not counting Vuelta 2016, because I'm sure Froome wouldn't count it as a victory) it would be 5:2 for Froome, but of course that doesn't take into account that the majority of Contador's wins happened before that.

Exactly, it makes no sense to compare the h2h because when Froome came into the spotlight, Contador already had half of his career behind him (with 5/7 GT wins) and was arguably not as strong as he was between 2007-2011.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

You are right in saying that flair, style and attack riding is what makes a race exciting but as we have seen this Vuelta and other races Contador has ridden previously it does not win races. Contador has waited too long to retire. He should have done last year. You are delusional if you think Contador is this superstar legend and superior to Froome. I will take Sky and all that they bring to a race over a "past-due-date" Contador any day of the week, thank-you very much. lol And I agree with the post above...you have to be full of something.

Please stop this. You are making a fool out of yourself and showing everyone you don't have a lot of knowledge of cycling beyond the Sky period. Maybe you should buy some DVDs from GTs prior to 2012.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Contador retiring after this year's Vuelta is 100x better than retiring after last year's very bad Vuelta. He ended 4th both times, but there was a world of difference between the two races.

 

[Asturiano]

A good interview with Chris:
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/vuelta-a-espana/chris-froome-vuelta-win-seals-place-cyclings-history-350523

He says about Vuelta:
"An up-and-down race, literally on occasions. It was a hell of a finale after three weeks of full gas racing and a fitting finale for this edition. Coming into the stage everything was still up in the air.This was a short stage, with lots of climbing, some tricky and wet descents, and that all made for very aggressive racing. I was counting down the kilometres until we got onto the final climb. The Tour is the biggest prize for a pro cyclist, it’s the biggest event we have on the calendar. But, for me, the Vuelta represents a different kind of bike Racing. It’s more of a physical challenge than the Tour, given the number of finishes on mountains, the aggression and the conditions. Over the three weeks we’ve had days of over 40 degrees, days like today when it’s 10 degrees and raining, extremely strong winds. It’s such a brutal race".

About Alberto:

“I gave absolutely everything I had today. This was an extremely fitting way for Alberto to say goodbye to pro cycling. He’s an extremely aggressive rider and to have attacked before the final climb on the last descent and to keep the lead to the finish… What can I say other than “chapeau”?. He’s a rider who brings so much flair, so much aggression to the races. For sure it’s going to be easier for me when he’s not around, but at the same time I have to respect what he did today. It was extremely fitting before his home crowd. Adios!".

About Angliru:

“It feels quite fitting, quite romantic in a way, that this is where I first had my opportunity to go for my own ambitions in a Grand Tour in 2011 when my leader struggled. So it’s amazing to come back here again and for this climb to have been the ultimate test of this year’s Vuelta. To have finished it off the way we did today is just amazing"

 

[RedheadDane]

Fun little fact about Froome Vuelta time-line:
Since 2011 he's only not started it once (2013), and he's finished second twice, fourth twice, and had one DNF.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

A head to head between Contador and Froome is hard to make because I feel they never really battled eachother when both were at their best, and most important, both of them stayed fit the entire Tour.

I only wish in the Tour 2014 all the falls had not happened. Nibali was at his best ever. Contador was at his best (or close to it at least), and Froome we don't know for sure, but I think without a fall he'd be close or at his best as well.
Imagine what it could've been instead of a Nibali parade against old Peraud and the young Pinot

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

Contador retiring after this year's Vuelta is 100x better than retiring after last year's very bad Vuelta. He ended 4th both times, but there was a world of difference between the two races.

This.

And we got Paris-Nice epic final stage Mark 2.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re:

Fun little fact about Froome Vuelta time-line:
Since 2011 he's only not started it once (2013), and he's finished second twice, fourth twice, and had one DNF.

Second thrice

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

5 4 0 (and counting) > 7 0 0

I rest my case

I don't know why you are counting 2nd places
It's 0 - 4 - 1 vs 2/3 - 2/3 - 3
Both are amazing riders and will go down as among the best in history. Froome for his palmares and dominance, Contador for his palmares and style. Please, have some respect. You know what they say, the only thing worse than a sore loser is an ungracious winner. Your favorite rider just won a big double yet you feel the need to drag down his biggest rival, to make your favorite look better? Just stupid.
Same goes for the poster above. I wish we could stay objective and above all respectful.

I don't know why you are even responding to him. He was saying Contador was bribing Mas yesterday. And I fully agree with your post.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

5 4 0 (and counting) > 7 0 0

I rest my case

I don't know why you are counting 2nd places
It's 0 - 4 - 1 vs 2/3 - 2/3 - 3
Both are amazing riders and will go down as among the best in history. Froome for his palmares and dominance, Contador for his palmares and style. Please, have some respect. You know what they say, the only thing worse than a sore loser is an ungracious winner. Your favorite rider just won a big double yet you feel the need to drag down his biggest rival, to make your favorite look better? Just stupid.
Same goes for the poster above. I wish we could stay objective and above all respectful.

I don't know why you are even responding to him. He was saying Contador was bribing Mas yesterday. And I fully agree with your post.

I am the one who reminded to all of you the fifth anniversary of Fuente De and the one who praised and applauded him for yesterday's effort in case you've not noticed.
Friendships, Student-teacher, trainer-trainee, boss-employee relationships and bribing are not mutually exclusive.
Whats your point!

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

5 4 0 (and counting) > 7 0 0

I rest my case

I don't know why you are counting 2nd places
It's 0 - 4 - 1 vs 2/3 - 2/3 - 3
Both are amazing riders and will go down as among the best in history. Froome for his palmares and dominance, Contador for his palmares and style. Please, have some respect. You know what they say, the only thing worse than a sore loser is an ungracious winner. Your favorite rider just won a big double yet you feel the need to drag down his biggest rival, to make your favorite look better? Just stupid.
Same goes for the poster above. I wish we could stay objective and above all respectful.

I don't know why you are even responding to him. He was saying Contador was bribing Mas yesterday. And I fully agree with your post.

there aint good in wishing froome to lose any race either.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

I am the one who reminded to all of you the fifth anniversary of Fuente De and the one who praised and applauded him for yesterday's effort in case you've not noticed.
Friendships, Student-teacher, trainer-trainee, boss-employee relationships and bribing are not mutually exclusive.
Whats your point!

The point is that it was a bit odd you immediately thought of something as nefarious as bribing instead of something more innocent like simple admiration (which is very obvious in this case)

 

[Pricey_sky]

Lv426's posts have been removed and those quoting him in replies have had there posts deleted as per forum rules.

In the meantime it would be great if we could stop the pointless back and forth arguing regarding Froome and Contador, nobody will ever agree without pushing it too far so let's just all enjoy what was achieved yesterday by both riders.

 

[rlntlssly]

His high mountain climbing isn't what it was two or three years ago. Neither this year nor last year. This Vuelta was won on the shorter uphill sprints (<5km) and the Tour on a wet tt and then a dry one against some pretty average time triallers. He hasn't crushed anyone since 2015. And I don't buy that "he doesn't need to" because that's not Froome's style - if he can destroy the competition in one blow, he will. For him, it makes the rest of the race so much easier. Quintana in good shape and few tt, or dumoulin with two good length time trials in the shape he was in this year, will best him. Maybe not next year but definitely by 2019.

This is of course true. The last time he did an outrageous mountain performance was La Pierre-Saint-Martin, with the other being Ax 3 Domaines. But those are the two tours he came closest to losing as he faded dramatically towards the end of the race. In the last two Tours, he has raced much more conservatively and has never seemed threatened in the same way. To me, the 2016 and 2017 Tours and 2017 Vuelta have been the most strategically astute, despite being less dramatic.

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

I am the one who reminded to all of you the fifth anniversary of Fuente De and the one who praised and applauded him for yesterday's effort in case you've not noticed.
Friendships, Student-teacher, trainer-trainee, boss-employee relationships and bribing are not mutually exclusive.
Whats your point!

The point is that it was a bit odd you immediately thought of something as nefarious as bribing instead of something more innocent like simple admiration (which is very obvious in this case)

You know, It'd make more sense if the words you wrote came out from me.
How come a professional rider in the break riding for his own interests helps another rider whose foundation has helped him grow professionally by sacrificing all his own and his team's interests in the process?
And why do you think of sympathy and admiration first instead of bribery? There's no sacrificing for admiration in professional environments.

 

[movingtarget]

Given his relative late breakthrough and less high profile youth, how long does Froome have at the top you think?

I think he could be good until even 37/38 years old.

I think he can be top level until 2020. I can't be bothered to find out what that is in age.

He is 32 now.

I think he can be good until 2023

His high mountain climbing isn't what it was two or three years ago. Neither this year nor last year. This Vuelta was won on the shorter uphill sprints (<5km) and the Tour on a wet tt and then a dry one against some pretty average time triallers. He hasn't crushed anyone since 2015. And I don't buy that "he doesn't need to" because that's not Froome's style - if he can destroy the competition in one blow, he will. For him, it makes the rest of the race so much easier. Quintana in good shape and few tt, or dumoulin with two good length time trials in the shape he was in this year, will best him. Maybe not next year but definitely by 2019.

Yeah I tend to agree with that summary. Hard to say what Nibali can produce next year but he definitely needs a better team. There will probably be one or two other riders that will also be a threat whether they can challenge after three weeks racing is another thing. Uran will try to duplicate his Tour effort but never looked like winning it.