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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Apr 16, 2017
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So, I'm thinking about Froome going for the double next year, and about which riders he will face in which race. The most accomplished current GT riders would be Quintana, Dumoulin, and Nibali. All three of them made a serious attempt at the Giro last year, and are likely to focus on the Tour this year. Froome is the odds-on favorite in any GT he chooses to target, so these three have an additional disincentive to ride the Giro now, and the perfect reason not to as well, having made it a target in 2017. Aru is going to ride the Giro, and presumably one of Valverde/Landa, but does it seem to anyone else that the Giro could have a very weak field to take on Froome? Zakarin and Majka have already committed to the Tour as well, I can't imagine Porte or Bardet are going to target the Giro over the Tour for their own reasons, Meintjes will ride the Giro if I had to guess, but he does not have a history that will cause anyone to be concerned. The Yates and Chaves possibility is there, but that's not much more of a threat than Meintjes, I would argue. Maybe Lopez will ride for Astana? If he develops, I guess he could be a threat. But overall, looking at who Froome is likely to face, I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that if ever there were a Giro to come in undercooked for, this is it.

And if Froome does win the Giro, and I really feel that if he decides he wants to, then he will, I think he is going to be the favorite for the Tour also. Partly because he is the strongest rider and has the strongest team, but also because there are going to be so many riders targeting the Tour that they will be unable to avoid racing against each other rather than racing to win the Tour. Froome has already demonstrated he has no such difficulties. I think we are about to witness a period of sustained dominance unlike anything seen since Hinault.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
If we are talking about LA's absolute peak, that was no question 2001. What he did on Alpe d' Huez was incredible. So while he was extremely good in 2002 as well, I'd say 2001 was just a half or even one level above. Im pretty sure LA said that himself. The opposition also was pretty lacklustre in 02.

As for Contador, Im torn between 09 and 11. I'd probably go with 2009 tho, still his Giro was amazing. There's no doubt Froome's peak was 2013 and 12/14/15/16/17 is pretty even IMO. No standout performances like in 2013, the real dominating ones, apart from PSM 2015, but still incredibly consistent. Otherwise you obviously don't do the double.
Yeah LA in 2001 was crazy good. I think that this season would have been a realistic chance for him to have done the Giro/Tour double (can't recall the Giro course though, would have needed a decent amount of ITT). The Tour course was really weird in that the key stages were even more condensed than usual. 5 stages in a row in week 2. After that there was only the penultimate ITT which even a tired LA would have done reasonably well in. That's what makes next years double extra hard for Froome, the lack of ITT. If he had a lot of that, then he wouldn't have to worry too much about the climbers and could pace himself in the mountains, only concerning himself with taking time back on Dumoulin. But he won't get much chance to rest in the Giro with so many tough MTF's and only getting a 1-3 minute buffer in the time trials. I cannot see Froome winning the Tour unless some key riders suffer badly on the cobbles and/or in the TTT.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
If we are talking about LA's absolute peak, that was no question 2001. What he did on Alpe d' Huez was incredible. So while he was extremely good in 2002 as well, I'd say 2001 was just a half or even one level above. Im pretty sure LA said that himself. The opposition also was pretty lacklustre in 02.

As for Contador, I'm torn between 09 and 11. I'd probably go with 2009 tho, still his Giro was amazing. There's no doubt Froome's peak was 2013 and 12/14/15/16/17 is pretty even IMO. No standout performances like in 2013, the real dominating ones, apart from PSM 2015, but still incredibly consistent. Otherwise you obviously don't do the double.
IMO physically 2013 was not his absolute peak. In terms of destroying his opponents everywhere? Sure.
But in terms of numbers, naah.
What he did in the 2017 Vuelta was crazy! Some of the numbers seen on the climbs were the best times seen. Ever. I don't even know what to expect in 2018 but I for sure know that he is improving physically as well as strategically.

I leave you with a Chris Froome quote hoping for bigger things in 2018 :



PS: Such numbers were usual for Contador in training. Its sad he could these majorly in training only. :lol: :lol:
(Emoticon just because it belongs here) :lol:
 
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Summoned said:
So, I'm thinking about Froome going for the double next year, and about which riders he will face in which race. The most accomplished current GT riders would be Quintana, Dumoulin, and Nibali. All three of them made a serious attempt at the Giro last year, and are likely to focus on the Tour this year. Froome is the odds-on favorite in any GT he chooses to target, so these three have an additional disincentive to ride the Giro now, and the perfect reason not to as well, having made it a target in 2017. Aru is going to ride the Giro, and presumably one of Valverde/Landa, but does it seem to anyone else that the Giro could have a very weak field to take on Froome? Zakarin and Majka have already committed to the Tour as well, I can't imagine Porte or Bardet are going to target the Giro over the Tour for their own reasons, Meintjes will ride the Giro if I had to guess, but he does not have a history that will cause anyone to be concerned. The Yates and Chaves possibility is there, but that's not much more of a threat than Meintjes, I would argue. Maybe Lopez will ride for Astana? If he develops, I guess he could be a threat. But overall, looking at who Froome is likely to face, I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that if ever there were a Giro to come in undercooked for, this is it.

And if Froome does win the Giro, and I really feel that if he decides he wants to, then he will, I think he is going to be the favorite for the Tour also. Partly because he is the strongest rider and has the strongest team, but also because there are going to be so many riders targeting the Tour that they will be unable to avoid racing against each other rather than racing to win the Tour. Froome has already demonstrated he has no such difficulties. I think we are about to witness a period of sustained dominance unlike anything seen since Hinault.
Good post sir.
I agree. Hoping for the best. :)
 
Re:

Summoned said:
So, I'm thinking about Froome going for the double next year, and about which riders he will face in which race. The most accomplished current GT riders would be Quintana, Dumoulin, and Nibali. All three of them made a serious attempt at the Giro last year, and are likely to focus on the Tour this year. Froome is the odds-on favorite in any GT he chooses to target, so these three have an additional disincentive to ride the Giro now, and the perfect reason not to as well, having made it a target in 2017. Aru is going to ride the Giro, and presumably one of Valverde/Landa, but does it seem to anyone else that the Giro could have a very weak field to take on Froome? Zakarin and Majka have already committed to the Tour as well, I can't imagine Porte or Bardet are going to target the Giro over the Tour for their own reasons, Meintjes will ride the Giro if I had to guess, but he does not have a history that will cause anyone to be concerned. The Yates and Chaves possibility is there, but that's not much more of a threat than Meintjes, I would argue. Maybe Lopez will ride for Astana? If he develops, I guess he could be a threat. But overall, looking at who Froome is likely to face, I think there is a reasonable argument to be made that if ever there were a Giro to come in undercooked for, this is it.

And if Froome does win the Giro, and I really feel that if he decides he wants to, then he will, I think he is going to be the favorite for the Tour also. Partly because he is the strongest rider and has the strongest team, but also because there are going to be so many riders targeting the Tour that they will be unable to avoid racing against each other rather than racing to win the Tour. Froome has already demonstrated he has no such difficulties. I think we are about to witness a period of sustained dominance unlike anything seen since Hinault.
I agreed with most of your post until the last sentence. History says it won't be a sustained period of dominance. That has already happened. It's more a matter of how much longer the dominance continues. At Froome's age maybe a year, two at the most. When his main opposition doesn't bring their best form it looks easier for Froome. Who predicted Uran to make the Tour podium ? Who really thought Dumoulin was going to win the Giro ? Riders like Quintana have to stop with the talk and bring their A Game. I think we may have seen the best of Nibali. Bardet can't TT and Porte just can't finish off a GT so on paper you would think Quintana and Dumoulin will be Froome's main opposition at the Tour unless someone like Porte does something unexpected.
 
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
 
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dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
If Aru and Landa are climbing well in the Giro there won't be much energy saving for Froome but then you have the TT............a win why not but not complete domination unless he does it in the TTs. Contador probably should have backed off in the 2011 Giro as soon as he had a big lead but that's not his style. I'm sure that Froome in the same situation would have been much more practical about going for the double.
 
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dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
How good someone is in the first GT of the double attempt has nothing to do with how well they can perform in the second. Froome has proven he can back up the second attempt, Contador never did (though in 11 without injuries he may have).
 
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Singer01 said:
dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
How good someone is in the first GT of the double attempt has nothing to do with how well they can perform in the second. Froome has proven he can back up the second attempt, Contador never did (though in 11 without injuries he may have).
Based on? Cause for the Giro/Tour double it seems to matter a whole lot
 
Re: Re:

Singer01 said:
dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
How good someone is in the first GT of the double attempt has nothing to do with how well they can perform in the second. Froome has proven he can back up the second attempt, Contador never did (though in 11 without injuries he may have).
Within a single grand tour is what I was clearly suggesting. Probably, he was somewhere nearby in the 2013 tour, but hungerknock on alpe d'huez screwed it up.
 
Re: Re:

movingtarget said:
dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
If Aru and Landa are climbing well in the Giro there won't be much energy saving for Froome but then you have the TT............a win why not but not complete domination unless he does it in the TTs. Contador probably should have backed off in the 2011 Giro as soon as he had a big lead but that's not his style. I'm sure that Froome in the same situation would have been much more practical about going for the double.
I will add Lopez to the mix at the Giro - He was beastly for a week at the Vuelta and if he can do it for longer at
the Giro, then he'll cause Froome concerns as well as tiring him out.
 
My guess is riders need around 8 weeks between the Giro and the TDF to be at their top for both races - This allows riders two weeks of nearly complete rest and then a slow build up for the next 6 weeks.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
movingtarget said:
dacooley said:
Froome has never been so convincing in a gt as Bertie was in the 2011 Giro and most likely he will never be. Firstly, having passed his absolute physical best, Froome prefers energy-saving style of winning as of today. Secondly, he'll be thinking about July too.
If Aru and Landa are climbing well in the Giro there won't be much energy saving for Froome but then you have the TT............a win why not but not complete domination unless he does it in the TTs. Contador probably should have backed off in the 2011 Giro as soon as he had a big lead but that's not his style. I'm sure that Froome in the same situation would have been much more practical about going for the double.
I will add Lopez to the mix at the Giro - He was beastly for a week at the Vuelta and if he can do it for longer at
the Giro, then he'll cause Froome concerns as well as tiring him out.
Yeah he was impressive but very hard to sustain that over three weeks. Even Quintana can't seem to do that on the climbs anymore.
 
Re:

yaco said:
My guess is riders need around 8 weeks between the Giro and the TDF to be at their top for both races - This allows riders two weeks of nearly complete rest and then a slow build up for the next 6 weeks.
Yes some riders have commented on at least a few months recovery time then you have the stress of the first week in the Tour where a lot of energy is used up just holding a position near the front. Be interesting to see how the climbers handle the first week including the cobbles. Maybe someone like Nibali will take more risks like he did in 2014. He probably has to.
 
I can fancy Froome, Stannard, Moscon and Thomas performing an excellent attack on cobbles and taking 1' on the rest of the field. Thrashing other contenders uphill is not what Froome will be seriously hoping for after the Giro. Different options are needed.
 
Re:

dacooley said:
I can fancy Froome, Stannard, Moscon and Thomas performing an excellent attack on cobbles and taking 1' on the rest of the field. Thrashing other contenders uphill is not what Froome will be seriously hoping for after the Giro. Different options are needed.
Well he hasn't done that since 2015 (one can also argue 13), he has basically just been the most consistent rider who has ridden pretty conservatively at the back of a superb team and at the same time been the best of the bunch of contenders in the time trial, but without dominating opponents like Indurain and to a lesser extent LA. At the same time he has faced very mediocre opposition in 16 and 17 (speaking strictly of TdF) as a result of Contador and Quintana severely underperforming and Porte being Porte while riders like Bardet and Urán have been his closest rivals. I think thats a pretty fair assessment.

I think he will just use the same tactic next year (mainly because he can't drop the whole field by 1-3 minutes on MTFs no more), but the big X-factor will be Dumoulin. And I can't believe Quintana will have his 3rd bad Tour in a row.. so he will definitely be very aggressive on the cobbles, but Dumoulin just might be the best rider out of all the contenders on cobbles, but Froome has to try - especially with a Giro in his legs.
 
Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
dacooley said:
I can fancy Froome, Stannard, Moscon and Thomas performing an excellent attack on cobbles and taking 1' on the rest of the field. Thrashing other contenders uphill is not what Froome will be seriously hoping for after the Giro. Different options are needed.
Well he hasn't done that since 2015 (one can also argue 13), he has basically just been the most consistent rider who has ridden pretty conservatively at the back of a superb team and at the same time been the best of the bunch of contenders in the time trial, but without dominating opponents like Indurain and to a lesser extent LA. At the same time he has faced very mediocre opposition in 16 and 17 (speaking strictly of TdF) as a result of Contador and Quintana severely underperforming and Porte being Porte while riders like Bardet and Urán have been his closest rivals. I think thats a pretty fair assessment.

I think he will just use the same tactic next year (mainly because he can't drop the whole field by 1-3 minutes on MTFs no more), but the big X-factor will be Dumoulin. And I can't believe Quintana will have his 3rd bad Tour in a row.. so he will definitely be very aggressive on the cobbles, but Dumoulin just might be the best rider out of all the contenders on cobbles, but Froome has to try - especially with a Giro in his legs.
Yeah Froome continues to ride smart and trust in his team and TT. Why wouldn't he ? And if he can pinch time in crosswinds and on descents because others have gone to sleep that's smart as well. But I think the reason he doesn't do the big mountain attacks anymore is because he can't. I think it's age related maybe and also because using so much energy on the climbs in the past has seen him more vulnerable in the third week where Quintana used to make some inroads. But the last two Tours have shown Froome to be less vulnerable in the third week and it's probably also meant he has conserved more for the final TT. Another reason for less attacks in the mountains in the Tour is also because he has been trying to win the Vuelta as well. Uran showed last year the perfect way to reach the podium but never win. Sky would have been smiling about Uran's approach to the race.
 
Nov 29, 2010
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I reckon he can still pull off a MTF where he drops the whole field in impressive fashion but the difference now is he has the experience to know he will pay for it the next day or later in the race.

These days he only likes going full out on the short sub 5 min climbs where there's less risk it will cost him in the rest of the race.

The way he rode the vuelta TT partly makes me think this way where he started conservative and was behind before panicking a little and going full Froome to catch up. He would've been going hard for a similar duration to an MTF (over 30mins) but he paid for it badly the next day which he said was a big mistake.

Or maybe he just can't idk, but he definitely seems more aware of what's coming up rather than just taking GT's 1 stage at a time.
 

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