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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 39 34.8%

  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 61 54.5%

  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 25 22.3%
  • Total voters
    112
R

Rui Machado

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RedheadDane said:
People were going nuts when that happened, and it's widely regarded as one of the most exciting GT stages.
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jaylew said:
No it's not. It's your opinion. Ranking entertainment value will always be an opinion
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Logic-is-your-friend said:
He'd be a hell of a lot more entertaining if he weren't riding for Ineos. Being the last in the train, getting dropped off nearly at the top, isn't exactly enticing imho. When he had to attack, and couldn't rely on classic Ineos tactics, is when he has been fun to watch, like in that Giro. Unfortunately those are exceptions rather than the rule.
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Like i said, he attacked a lot of times, i gave you a lot of examples. But that s your opinion and I just have to respect.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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2016 Tour, the most memorable thing from that entire race was the 1km to go banner collapsing and blocking the road. Froome's attack over the top of the climb was memorable because the other contenders were staring at each other instead of chasing as it appeared they didn't know what to do. Sorry, but there is very little excitement in most of the GT's (not all) Froome has won. None of his wins in GT's come close to the 2012 Vuelta and it's entertainment value. That GT is one of, if not the best GT of the past two decades. The 2014 Tour was memorable due to some of the insanity. Of Froome's GT wins his Giro and his 2015 Tour would be the best.
 
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Bullrun

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Rui Machado said:
I am talking of being entertaining in grand tours. Tell me what was supposed froome to do, to be entertaining to you?
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Are you new here or something?

Here's what he could have done:

  1. Not be British and/or
  2. Not ride for Sky/INEOS
You're 100% correct and not every opinion deserves respect.

I agree Contador was the closest, especially pre-suspension, but Froome was more entertaining overall: a) he was more versatile and diversified/astute on his attacks; b) I have a hard time seeing Froome spending 3 weeks being towed by Roman Kreuziger around France for a top-5 without at least having a go, no matter how desperate/doomed.

RedheadDane said:
No one is saying that he never attacks!
Problem is that he's had a tendency to;
  1. Attack on the first MTF.
  2. Grap yellow.
  3. Defend all the way to Paris.
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Wow, he doesn't attack much when he's in yellow in a GT? What a monster. Some of Froome's GT wins were somewhat monotonous. Not his fault though - rather of timorous and defensive opponents who were happy to settle for podium placements and top-10s.

And if anything, Froome is a pretty attacking maillot jaune for this era - but obviously he isn't going to launch suicidal solo attacks 50kms out when he's leading the GC by 2 minutes.

As RuiMachado said, Froome has won GTs by attacking on descents, attacking on flats, launching long range attacks, launching multiple attacks on successive stages, bordures, etc. The other guys normally lacking the guts/panache to do the same when Froome is on yellow (besides a couple of stages) doesn't mean Froome is boring; they are.
 
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tobydawq

tobydawq

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I don't think he's that boring at all. Yes, the editions of the Tour he has won weren't the best but there have been numerous occasions on which he has ridden entertainingly since he rose to power:

The Peña Cabarga stage of 2011 was his final duel against Cobo, and that is probably the most direct head-to-head MTF shootout for the final GC in a Grand Tour ever. And his comeback to Cobo's comeback to at least win the stage was impressive.

His riding on La Toussuire in the 2012 Tour was more entertaining than it should have been from the team's perspective but at least it gave us something to talk about.

Then I don't think he can be blamed for how he rode in the 2013 Tour where he was clearly the best and won two mountaintop finish stages from mid-range attacks. He could have just followed wheels but didn't. You also have to tip your hat for how he handled himself on the Bagnères-De-Bigorre stage where he was isolated against a full Movistar squad. He somehow managed to give the impression that he couldn't be caught out even on the flats. Of course it quenched the entertainment but it was tactically very impressive.

Then there has been all his lolling around in the Vuelta where he generally has refused to follow the high pace at the bottoms of final climbs. It has been very unconventional and perhaps many people find it irritating but to me it has been quite entertaining and has fooled me a bunch of times. Less cold-blooded riders would follow from the bottom until the explosion but he knows what he can do, and I think that should be appreciated.

The 2015 Tour was nothing very special, he stamped his authority on the first MTF and secured yellow there. In 2016 he had the descent attack down Peyresourde, the cross-wind attack with Sagan, Thomas and Bodnar and the running up Mont Ventoux which was of course involuntary entertainment but still quite memorable even if it was negated by a rash jury decision.

In 2017, it was interesting how Sky went on full-blown attack mode on the short Foix stage because Fabio Aru was in yellow by mere seconds to Froome after Froome's very bad day on the Peyragudes which he managed to camouflage very well. But then Aru haplessly lost it on the Rodez stage, and it was back to the Sky train in the Alps.

Then you have the 2017 Vuelta which was not that memorable but he still managed to have his funny moment with stealing the green jersey by participating in the final bunch sprint in Madrid while also winning the race overall.

And of course the 2018 Giro speaks for itself, both with his magnificent duel against Simon Yates on the Zoncolan and then that day over the Finestre. Then in the Tour, he still tried attacks both on stages 11 and 12 even though he wasn't better than the rest that time.

So I really think it's Sky who have killed the Grand Tours, not Froome. I think he is exactly as devil-may-care in his attitude toward win or podium as Contador was, it's just not that often he has to display it because his team has been so strong and set up so defensively as it has been.
 
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RedheadDane

RedheadDane

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By grapping yellow early on, and dominating all the way to Paris, Froome has had a tendency to make the race boring.
A race where one guy just takes the lead and it quickly becomes clear that no matter how many times the others attack, they won't be able to shake him isn't going to get down in the history books as entertaining racing.
Which is why the 2018 Giro was one of Froome's best GT wins, because he started at a disadvantage.
 
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Rui Machado

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Bullrun said:
Are you new here or something?

Here's what he could have done:

  1. Not be British and/or
  2. Not ride for Sky/INEOS
You're 100% correct and not every opinion deserves respect.

I agree Contador was the closest, especially pre-suspension, but Froome was more entertaining overall: a) he was more versatile and diversified/astute on his attacks; b) I have a hard time seeing Froome spending 3 weeks being towed by Roman Kreuziger around France for a top-5 without at least having a go, no matter how desperate/doomed.



Wow, he doesn't attack much when he's in yellow in a GT? What a monster. Some of Froome's GT wins were somewhat monotonous. Not his fault though - rather of timorous and defensive opponents who were happy to settle for podium placements and top-10s.

And if anything, Froome is a pretty attacking maillot jaune for this era - but obviously he isn't going to launch suicidal solo attacks 50kms out when he's leading the GC by 2 minutes.

As RuiMachado said, Froome has won GTs by attacking on descents, attacking on flats, launching long range attacks, launching multiple attacks on successive stages, bordures, etc. The other guys normally lacking the guts/panache to do the same when Froome is on yellow (besides a couple of stages) doesn't mean Froome is boring; they are.
Click to expand...
They should blame, quintana, valverde, movistar tatics, contador, nibali, etc, not froome. And sky/ineos train is not excuse for everything.
I agree with you, in my opinion froome was more entertaining and better than contador.
 
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BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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Quintana is a rider I find very entertaining because I just can't figure him out. He has often just followed wheels, it's not like he's always on the attack, but to me he's entertaining because I never know what I will get.
I agree it's not so much Froome's fault he does not come across entertaining to me and I did not mean to make this an accusation. It's just the connotation in my mind certainly does not go Froome=entertaining. And while he has attacked several times in his career, hardly anything of that ever came to me like circus material - that can also be considered a good thing.
 
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gregrowlerson

gregrowlerson

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Froome has been very entertaining, overall, over the journey. When he has been dominant, there hasn't really been a reason to take risk, and I can't remember other riders taking such risks (like attacking before the final climb) when already in the leaders jersey and generally being the strongest rider in the race. Has he risked his podium places in GT's often enough? We saw his amazing and ENTERTAINING performance in the Giro, and in the Tour he was hampered by Wiggins in 2012 and Thomas in 2018. In the 2011 Vuelta he was also hampered by Wiggins. The only questions can be about his other 2nd places at the Vuelta, but I'm not sure if he could have done anything else to go all in for the win. We have seen Contador go on ENTERTAINING long range attempts in the Tour in 2015 and 2017; attempts that admittedly failed. But maybe that is what some Froome critics want to see from Froome. However, Chris has never really been in that Contador position of being 4th or 5th. Even if Alberto wouldn't admit it, to lose 2nd or 3rd place is something to lose, at least more than a non podium top ten; we never really saw Alberto have to risk that, as he either won or missed the podium. Anyway, Froome on Finestre at least matched Contador's Fuente De; I think we can all agree on that.

Personally I would probably always rate Contador as more entertaining, both because of bias as a fan (he was also better looking on a bike), and because of Paris-Nice.
 
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Oldermanish

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Rui Machado said:
Giro d italia stage 19, mont ventoux 2013, ax 3 domaines tour de france 2013, pena cabarga 2011,col de la pierre sain martin 2015, attack in the descent of peyresourde, attack with sagan in the tour 2016. It s not enough? Yes, i m a big massive fan, but no one as given more entertaining than froome in the grand tours in the last decade, and that s a fact.
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Just to offer a closer look at the 2016 escape "with" Sagan....Sagan went and several riders were placed well enough to get in his draft. Arguably, without Geraint none of the others including Froome could have matched the pulls Sagan took. Thomas had the track pursuiter skills that keep him in things; he can go deep and recover quickly which is greatly underappreciated. Sagan wanted the company and the others got used which Froome confirmed when he made his attempt to take the stage.
 
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Parker

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Oldermanish said:
Just to offer a closer look at the 2016 escape "with" Sagan....Sagan went and several riders were placed well enough to get in his draft. Arguably, without Geraint none of the others including Froome could have matched the pulls Sagan took. Thomas had the track pursuiter skills that keep him in things; he can go deep and recover quickly which is greatly underappreciated. Sagan wanted the company and the others got used which Froome confirmed when he made his attempt to take the stage.
Click to expand...


Maybe. But it's not a move you'd see any other GC rider of the last 20 years making. Several riders may have been well placed to get into Sagan's draft, but Froome was the one that did.

Froome had repeated shown he's a proper racer. He attacks whenever he can and should. But equally he'll defend with his team when it's appropriate.
 
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CTQ

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Oldermanish said:
Just to offer a closer look at the 2016 escape "with" Sagan....Sagan went and several riders were placed well enough to get in his draft. Arguably, without Geraint none of the others including Froome could have matched the pulls Sagan took. Thomas had the track pursuiter skills that keep him in things; he can go deep and recover quickly which is greatly underappreciated. Sagan wanted the company and the others got used which Froome confirmed when he made his attempt to take the stage.
Click to expand...

arguably, we could say that Froome caught Bodnar and Sagan, without the help of Thomas, who had to work to catch the other three, and also Froome took some turns at the front ...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6BWR_DaZV8
 
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