Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Red Rick]

We are talking about the same guy that got his international career started by committing identity fraud, right?

That must be a new story to me

As for personality, Wiggins and Thomas both won the SPOTY award the year they won the Tour, but when Froome wins everything they rather give the ward to Andy "Boring, unfunny and miserable" Murray by default

 

[Panda Claws]

Where did you get that chart from ? The original one was created in 2009 (?), Bernal wasn't on the scene obviously.

It was just the first version I found. (https://cyclingtips.com/2020/09/with-egan-bernal-dave-brailsford-didnt-follow-his-own-advice/)
The writer simply added all the TDF wins to it (Bernal, 3x Froome etc.). Nothing was changed otherwise.

 

[red_flanders]

There's no shame on what froome is doing, you all forget that he almost died 2 years ago, he broke is neck, ribs,hip,elbow, ribs, femur, lost 2 litres of blood, he had to relearn how to walk. Yes, froome's level now is miserable, and like i said, he needs to retire in the end of the season if there no improvements, but don't blame the guy for try to comeback to his best level, he tried and are trying so hard, 99% of the other riders already would retire after that horrific crash, but he tried to comeback to his best level. Unfortunately he's not making progresses, but give some respect to the guy for trying to comeback to his best level even if you don't like him so much. It was already a great achievement the progresses that he made until now, unfortunately I think he will not progress anymore and he should retire at the end of the season.
Really difficult to understand this hating to a man that almost died in a crash and are trying so hard to comeback to his best.

I see this defense of Froome quite a bit in this thread. It's interesting. For my part (and you may well not be referring to posts like mine) I would agree that it's a good thing (for him) that he's trying to make a comeback. I respect the effort.

However, I would strongly challenge the notion that 99% of riders would retire after such a crash. That does not strike me as the mentality of most athletes, let alone champions. I think that POV is an mild insult to other riders. It's a strong assertion with zero evidence. His comeback is worthy of respect, as is all hard effort, but it's also exactly what I'd have expected from him or any other top rider in his situation. And it has no bearing on other aspects of his persona or his performances. It sounds like maybe you just don't like hearing people criticize him. Which is fine, but his crash doesn't erase all the things about him I don't like. We can't dislike him because he crashed and we need to have such respect for the effort to come back? Not for me.

I don't know that he won't progress any more, and I don't know why folks would write him off completely, as it's not clear at all WHY he isn't making progress. He is quoted in the Independent in April 2020 regarding his recovery as "I'd go as far as saying it's pretty much complete". Was that the truth? Or did that turn out to be a lie?

So...what is the issue? Weight? No. He's just not generating the power he used to, or the peloton has just passed him by. I think mostly power but clearly some of both, as the TT times and climbing times we're seeing now are making Lance Armstrong and his buddies their heads in disbelief, literally. But until we have some reasonable explanation as to why he's not progressing, it seems odd to conclude he's done.

 

[Red Rick]

I see this defense of Froome quite a bit in this thread. It's interesting. For my part (and you may well not be referring to posts like mine) I would agree that it's a good thing (for him) that he's trying to make a comeback. I respect the effort.

However, I would strongly challenge the notion that 99% of riders would retire after such a crash. That does not strike me as the mentality of most athletes, let alone champions. I think that POV is an mild insult to other riders. It's a strong assertion with zero evidence. His comeback is worthy of respect, as is all hard effort, but it's also exactly what I'd have expected from him or any other top rider in his situation. And it has no bearing on other aspects of his persona or his performances. It sounds like maybe you just don't like hearing people criticize him. Which is fine, but his crash doesn't erase all the things about him I don't like. We can't dislike him because he crashed and we need to have such respect for the effort to come back? Not for me.

I don't know that he won't progress any more, and I don't know why folks would write him off completely, as it's not clear at all WHY he isn't making progress. He is quoted in the Independent in April 2020 regarding his recovery as "I'd go as far as saying it's pretty much complete". Was that the truth? Or did that turn out to be a lie?

So...what is the issue? Weight? No. He's just not generating the power he used to, or the peloton has just passed him by. I think mostly power but clearly some of both, as the TT times and climbing times we're seeing now are making Lance Armstrong and his buddies their heads in disbelief, literally. But until we have some reasonable explanation as to why he's not progressing, it seems odd to conclude he's done.

The crash was 2 years ago almost to the week. He was back racing about 17 months ago, and isn't doing any better now than he was then. I'm not sure what is odd about the conclusion that he is so finnished that he probably yelled "perkele" after the ITT

 

[red_flanders]

The crash was 2 years ago almost to the week. He was back racing about 17 months ago, and isn't doing any better now than he was then. I'm not sure what is odd about the conclusion that he is so finnished that he probably yelled "perkele" after the ITT

When I say I don't know why folks would write him off completely, I'm talking about people posting repeatedly that he should retire. Why? Who cares, let him figure it out. I wouldn't retire if I were him.

I understand strong skepticism, for sure. And I'm also hugely skeptical he'll come back to even top 20 status. For me however, unless I understand why he's not performing I have no basis to conclude he's done forever. But I understand we're not really going to get the real reason if we haven't to this point.

 

[Panda Claws]

His age alone would make it incredible if Froome does come back to podium a GT.

 

[Ripper]

So, we have to wait till the big mountains to see if Froome has improved a little. Acording his start in Dauphine, compared to other start of this year, he has improved.

Maybe we see today something in the ITT, although he is focused on the mountains. His best result in an ITT is 80th after his crash, in a race will less riders than here...so, everything better than 80th, it would be an improvement, and more if we consider his bad ITTs at Romandie.

Well, given he was 93rd, I guess that means no improvement? Given he was sick in Romandie, I'd say this might even be worse. He is very close to the back third of the field on a pretty short test. His TT and overall power are crap compared to his previous normal. The mountains are the next test for him, but I would not expect much.

 

[Ripper]

It is a fact that Froome never lies

LOL. In fact, LOLzzzzzz

We are talking about the same guy that got his international career started by committing identity fraud, right?

Additional LOL!

 

[Rollthedice]

That must be a new story to me

As for personality, Wiggins and Thomas both won the SPOTY award the year they won the Tour, but when Froome wins everything they rather give the ward to Andy "Boring, unfunny and miserable" Murray by default

"Things did not always go to plan. Riding for Kenya in the 2006 Under-23 World Time Trial Championships in Austria after hacking the official federation's email account so he could enter himself, he arrived at the event on his own as rider, team manager and mechanic, rolled down the start ramp... and crashed into an official on the first corner. Even so, he still finished 36th." - BBC sport

"Froome used Mwangi’s email login to surreptitiously enter himself for the UCI Road World Championships. It was a sneaky move but it paid off massively. A good showing at the race meant he was picked up by South African team Konica-Minolta, and the following season he secured a spot on the Barloworld Team (alongside Geraint Thomas), along with a call-up for the Tour de France in what was only his second season as a pro."

Interview: David Kinjah – the man who made Froome

It’s 2013. In the shade of a room crowded with innumerable bicycle parts, trophies, cycling magazines and soft toys, a

www.cyclist.co.uk

 

[Red Rick]

"Things did not always go to plan. Riding for Kenya in the 2006 Under-23 World Time Trial Championships in Austria after hacking the official federation's email account so he could enter himself, he arrived at the event on his own as rider, team manager and mechanic, rolled down the start ramp... and crashed into an official on the first corner. Even so, he still finished 36th." - BBC sport

"Froome used Mwangi’s email login to surreptitiously enter himself for the UCI Road World Championships. It was a sneaky move but it paid off massively. A good showing at the race meant he was picked up by South African team Konica-Minolta, and the following season he secured a spot on the Barloworld Team (alongside Geraint Thomas), along with a call-up for the Tour de France in what was only his second season as a pro."

Interview: David Kinjah – the man who made Froome

It’s 2013. In the shade of a room crowded with innumerable bicycle parts, trophies, cycling magazines and soft toys, a

www.cyclist.co.uk

Wtf that is just too much.

 

[Panda Claws]

Snoop Dawg, hustler since birth.

 

[Froome]

His age alone would make it incredible if Froome does come back to podium a GT.

Age is not the problem. The problem is that right leg, and i really doubt that someday it will be at 100%.

 

[bigcog]

I don't know that he won't progress any more, and I don't know why folks would write him off completely, as it's not clear at all WHY he isn't making progress. He is quoted in the Independent in April 2020 regarding his recovery as "I'd go as far as saying it's pretty much complete". Was that the truth? Or did that turn out to be a lie?

If that quote is correct and you are being generous then you could say he really thought that at the time but things haven't worked out as he expected since. Unless you have experienced such injuries before, and generally who has, you could be forgiven thinking you could make a full recovery if your surgeon/dr said so, experience typically shows something else altogether. Conversely, wasn't that about the time Bernal and him were having a ding-dong about leadership, if so it may have been part of that but obviously Ineos saw his performance and knew different.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Wtf that is just too much.

Don’t forget the bunnies and snakes.

 

[Froome]

I see this defense of Froome quite a bit in this thread. It's interesting. For my part (and you may well not be referring to posts like mine) I would agree that it's a good thing (for him) that he's trying to make a comeback. I respect the effort.

However, I would strongly challenge the notion that 99% of riders would retire after such a crash. That does not strike me as the mentality of most athletes, let alone champions. I think that POV is an mild insult to other riders. It's a strong assertion with zero evidence. His comeback is worthy of respect, as is all hard effort, but it's also exactly what I'd have expected from him or any other top rider in his situation. And it has no bearing on other aspects of his persona or his performances. It sounds like maybe you just don't like hearing people criticize him. Which is fine, but his crash doesn't erase all the things about him I don't like. We can't dislike him because he crashed and we need to have such respect for the effort to come back? Not for me.

I don't know that he won't progress any more, and I don't know why folks would write him off completely, as it's not clear at all WHY he isn't making progress. He is quoted in the Independent in April 2020 regarding his recovery as "I'd go as far as saying it's pretty much complete". Was that the truth? Or did that turn out to be a lie?

So...what is the issue? Weight? No. He's just not generating the power he used to, or the peloton has just passed him by. I think mostly power but clearly some of both, as the TT times and climbing times we're seeing now are making Lance Armstrong and his buddies their heads in disbelief, literally. But until we have some reasonable explanation as to why he's not progressing, it seems odd to conclude he's done.

I am criticizing people that are criticizing his performances since last year, like i said it was too much injuries. He's trying his best to comeback, unfortunately it will not happens.
You're free to dislike froome and other things of his past, i'm not talking abou that.

 

[Bonimenier]

I am criticizing people that are criticizing his performances since last year, like i said it was too much injuries. He's trying his best to comeback, unfortunately it will not happens.
You're free to dislike froome and other things of his past, i'm not talking abou that.

I think people are mainly criticizing him for repeating over and over again that everything is evolving well, which clearly isn't the case.

 

[Panda Claws]

Age is not the problem. The problem is that right leg, and i really doubt that someday it will be at 100%.

If age was not a problem we would have more than two 35+ year olds among our GT winners. Froome is not magically immune to that just because he still looked strong before he crashed. Even then he looked like he was beyond his peak too.

 

[red_flanders]

I think people are mainly criticizing him for repeating over and over again that everything is evolving well, which clearly isn't the case.

Thank you. Addresses one of the questions to me above. One comment one could easily dismiss as hopeful. It's been a constant stream of inaccurate comments for over a year.

 

[memyselfandI]

Wtf that is just too much.

Nope, it's in line of our federation UCI and IOC.

See, Pat McQuaid, his brother and Sean Kelly went to South Africa mid 70's to ride in preparation for the Olympics and they rode under false names because of protest against apartheid. They were detected and suspended from racing for seven months and IOC banned them from the Olympics. Happy end is of course that McQuaid become a member of the IOC later.

 

[Amazinmets87]

If age was not a problem we would have more than two 35+ year olds among our GT winners. Froome is not magically immune to that just because he still looked strong before he crashed. Even then he looked like he was beyond his peak too.

Agreed. It's ridiculous to say age related decline isn't a factor. How many 35+ riders have even made the podium?

In any case, we can obviously forget about Froome winning another GT. He'll do nothing this year, and the proceeding year is his age 37 season.

 

[Pinot's goat]

If age was not a problem we would have more than two 35+ year olds among our GT winners. Froome is not magically immune to that just because he still looked strong before he crashed. Even then he looked like he was beyond his peak too.

Richie Porte is the same age as Froome and has always been inferior yet he was on the podium at the TDF last year and is performing as well as ever.

 

[Froome]

Richie Porte is the same age as Froome and has always been inferior yet he was on the podium at the TDF last year and is performing as well as ever.

Richie porte, woods and dan martin, valverde, g.thomas.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Richie Porte is the same age as Froome and has always been inferior yet he was on the podium at the TDF last year and is performing as well as ever.

Not always, my friend.

Giro 2010:
Richie Porte, 7th overall
Chris Froome, DSQ for holding onto a motorbike while >100th on GC

In 2011, though, Porte really does fall away such that he's not much better than Froome even before Froome's coming out party at La Covatilla.

 

[red_flanders]

Richie porte, woods and dan martin, valverde, g.thomas.

Chris Horner...

 

[Red Rick]

Not always, my friend.

Giro 2010:
Richie Porte, 7th overall
Chris Froome, DSQ for holding onto a motorbike while >100th on GC

In 2011, though, Porte really does fall away such that he's not much better than Froome even before Froome's coming out party at La Covatilla.

Both are around 2010 level it would seem.