Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Amazinmets87]

I started to like Chris Froome after his Dauphiné crash. I did not like him very much before, I admit. But after his crash, IMHO, he became a much weaker cyclist, but a more likeable person.

I like that he‘s still riding, and wish that he continues for a few seasons after 2022.

In the moment, I would say that he has the performance level of a weaker PCT rider or of a very strong CT rider/CT team leader. I cannot explain what exactly happened to him - all I know is, he crashed badly, came back into the peloton, and was (and stayed!) much weaker than before.

I hope he enjoys Romandie (a race he likes very much), and that we see him at the TdF in July…

Same. Previously he was a robotic villain devoid of any personality. Now he's a sympathetic figure. I hope he does well.

 

[SHAD0W93]

If he's currently at Michael Woods' level that's really not bad. Hopefully it translates to road race stages.

Uhm, what?

While not knowing all of his TT results, I know a lot bag on Woods TT ability. Nor do I know how PCS points work but I do know he has 40 points per PCS. Which is lower then Goss, Farrar, Kittel, Cavendish, Schlecks, Purito, Txurruka, and basically every other rider I thought to look up that would have bad points besides Andrea Guardini who has 1 point.

If this was a hilly or mountain stage or finished ahead of Woods, I’d put more stock into that. Versus a prologue he finished same time when in theory with Froome still having a big engine like we’re being told, that and TTs are where he’d be good at besides the flat stages. Heck, thinking about it he should have put some time into Woods considering it was relatively flat.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

FTP = 390w

https://twitter.com/x/status/1519159665635995648

View: https://twitter.com/cyclecollective/status/1519159665635995648

 

[Rackham]

Nobody thinks like that of Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Ronaldinho, Simon Ammann, George Best, Manny Pacquiao, etc. Sport is literally littered with sportsmen who kept going past their best, many for very good reasons, like getting well paid to do something you still enjoy. To suggest that people, in 20 years time, will remember his poor performances at the Tour of the Alps or a Romandie prologue, rather than 4 yellow jerseys is simply incorrect.

With Froome's legacy there's always the curveball of the 2017 situation which we cannot discuss here (yes it matters). He's also not a charismatic legend of the sport, he never was.

So I wouldn't be so sure about 20 years from now, i.e. George Best (one of your examples) is equally remembered as an alcoholic who destroyed his own career & health with his bad lifestyle, meanwhile there are other sportsmen (champions, especially) who definitely are remembered for their past-it performances & miserable ends to their careers. Just ask Sebastian Vettel.

The forum is a toxic place man. This thread is like the Evenepoel thread but inverted.

Post crash Froome has been judged, juried and is now being executed in spite of his extensive track record. Eddy is praised into the heavens in spite of his limited track record but exciting potential.

Before you lose your sh*t, I'm not comparing these 2 riders, I am comparing the forum dynamics in their respective threads. It's very pick and choose. I am occasionally faulty to that as well, although I try not to, but I despise the dynamics. It's depressingly toxic.

Pity in a way because I love the constructive discussions and analysis and have been following and reading for years.

Regarding CF: Respect is a fickle thing these days.
It's not anymore what you have achieved, but what you do right now.. in Chris's case it's piss poor, but if he enjoys riding his bike and getting paid very well. I'd do the same and let the haters hate.

It's just part of sport in general, i.e. champions get all the praise, adoration (well, usually) & admiration when they're smashing records & winning the biggest prizes. It's only normal for the reverse to also be true when their results are the opposite.

It's the rules of the game & Froome has nothing to complain about. He chose Israel's contract, he chooses to continue riding, he's the one who makes all this conversation happen. The one thing he isn't in control of is public perception & that's how it should be.

 

[gregrowlerson]

The legacy conversation is an interesting one, and I suppose the main question with that and Chris Froome is; Is his continued career post crash harming his legacy enough that anyone who rated him ahead of Contador pre crash, has now changed their minds regarding that head to head career debate?

Without giving it too deep a thought, I'd say no.

What about with Greg Lemond; if he'd continued to race into the mid 90's and finished outside the top 50 in GC for a few seasons, would it harm his legacy? Again, probably not greatly.

Riders tend to be rated on their ability to put themselves into potential winning positions, and also how often they can fully capitalise on those opportunities. And to a lesser extent on longevity of high performance (Valverde is still adding to his legacy this season, to some extent).

 

[SHAD0W93]

The legacy conversation is an interesting one, and I suppose the main question with that and Chris Froome is; Is his continued career post crash harming his legacy enough that anyone who rated him ahead of Contador pre crash, has now changed their minds regarding that head to head career debate?

Without giving it too deep a thought, I'd say no.

What about with Greg Lemond; if he'd continued to race into the mid 90's and finished outside the top 50 in GC for a few seasons, would it harm his legacy? Again, probably not greatly.

Riders tend to be rated on their ability to put themselves into potential winning positions, and also how often they can fully capitalise on those opportunities. And to a lesser extent on longevity of high performance (Valverde is still adding to his legacy this season, to some extent).

You can’t take away from someone’s legacy from them continuing in their sport past their prime and any good results/showing/performances. The only thing that can are clinical, criminal, or behavioral reasons. If anyone says Contador is a better rider because of Froome’s last years is very unfair. Some in sports are able to retire on a high while others are not as lucky. Contador got to retire with a win in an epic way while Froome for now looks like he will retire continuing to do what he loves even after a terrible injury that he was able to return from. There is nothing tarnishing about that, in fact that in my opinion makes it better. He returned and DNFed 4 races being classics and understandable and OTL once at the pro level. That is really good for him after the injury and his age. What people don’t like is how he handled the situation and his statements after the fact that he continues on top of his contract. But as they say, don’t hate the player hate the game. This then gets added with the 2011 Vuelta and beyond. They/we are not harping on Froome the legacy but Froome the person.

 

[Lequack]

No posts today?

 

[RedheadDane]

He is climbing the GC.
Steadily.
And slowly.

 

[SHAD0W93]

No posts today?

He did beat Nibali and got a good workout in today.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Froome is now only 17 seconds behind Nibali in the GC

 

[Bolder]

You can’t take away from someone’s legacy from them continuing in their sport past their prime and any good results/showing/performances. The only thing that can are clinical, criminal, or behavioral reasons. If anyone says Contador is a better rider because of Froome’s last years is very unfair. Some in sports are able to retire on a high while others are not as lucky. Contador got to retire with a win in an epic way while Froome for now looks like he will retire continuing to do what he loves even after a terrible injury that he was able to return from. There is nothing tarnishing about that, in fact that in my opinion makes it better. He returned and DNFed 4 races being classics and understandable and OTL once at the pro level. That is really good for him after the injury and his age. What people don’t like is how he handled the situation and his statements after the fact that he continues on top of his contract. But as they say, don’t hate the player hate the game. This then gets added with the 2011 Vuelta and beyond. They/we are not harping on Froome the legacy but Froome the person.

Well put. I'd also say that it might be different if his decline was due to a fondness for beer or an allergy to training, it might be different. But he has given his all to come back from serious injuries, and if he fails, it's not from lack of trying...

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Combativity prize anyone?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Froome‘s legacy, to me, seems already clear: he will be remembered as the four-time TdF winner, who won all GTs, and who crashed heavily afterwards, to return much weaker than he was in his best years.

But he returned, and stayed a professional cyclist. It‘s clear to everyone that this guy loves bike racing. He loves bike racing, and accepts that he has become a domestique. Although he won the Tour four times, bike racing, to him, is more than the TdF.

Completely different to, for example, another champion: Jan Ullrich. Ullrich would never have continued his career, under circumstances that Froome has to face now.

Results-wise, Froome nowadays gets humiliated by his rivals, when he climbs the mountains of the Tour in the grupetto, at best. I, however, think that his popularity has grown, now that he shows so much character and passion to just stay WT cyclist. Especially the French seem to admire him for that, and I know why: Froome, after all, is a champion, on brighter and also on less bright days…

 

[SHAD0W93]

Completely different to, for example, another champion: Jan Ullrich. Ullrich would never have continued his career, under circumstances that Froome has to face now.

Even though not as extreme an injury, Ullrich still raced with recurrent knee injury and issues since the 1999 crash left him out of the Tour. Who could also forget him crashing through the team cars window and landing in the backseat then starting the Tour the next day. Ullrich had an eating and drinking problem, which is understandable considering his whole life was spent following other peoples rules and wants. He still showed up to race and arguably just had one rider better then him besides his less then beneficial choices. Even Schleck for the massive amount of flack he got before the injury and after, tried to return from his injury.


Nor do I think he’s verbally accepted being a domestique as he’s still hyping a return to winning form. Whatever the actual amount was, I think anyone would continue to ride at the price he is being paid.

 

[Taxus4a]

Good job today at 30 Km from the line...later he let him go talking by micro. His team try by wasting his people day by day, but with no result... Hope he is feeling better day by day..At the moment, he has not reached the level he had last year at Slovakia, but I will wait till the end of the race to have a better opinion. Tomorrow is a harder day, and I hope the team dont waste him too much before the last part. I think this year he is working more than last year.

 

[Savant12]

He will not win another race.

 

[red_flanders]

Froome‘s legacy, to me, seems already clear: he will be remembered as the four-time TdF winner, who won all GTs, and who crashed heavily afterwards, to return much weaker than he was in his best years.

But he returned, and stayed a professional cyclist. It‘s clear to everyone that this guy loves bike racing. He loves bike racing, and accepts that he has become a domestique. Although he won the Tour four times, bike racing, to him, is more than the TdF.

Completely different to, for example, another champion: Jan Ullrich. Ullrich would never have continued his career, under circumstances that Froome has to face now.

Results-wise, Froome nowadays gets humiliated by his rivals, when he climbs the mountains of the Tour in the grupetto, at best. I, however, think that his popularity has grown, now that he shows so much character and passion to just stay WT cyclist. Especially the French seem to admire him for that, and I know why: Froome, after all, is a champion, on brighter and also on less bright days…

Domestique implies being a helper. He’s just pack fill at this point. As he always should have been.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He will not win another race.

Only the one in our hearts and most likely. Unless he and the team go to a small race and they’re the only WT team. I think he could win something there as he can still out smart the others. And if he does win the forum night not work for a day.

Domestique implies being a helper. He’s just pack fill at this point. As he always should have been.

I still remember in Cav’s book how sad they were he couldn’t get 1 point in TdR to help them get 9 riders. Little did the team and coaches know.

 

[Amazinmets87]

Domestique implies being a helper. He’s just pack fill at this point. As he always should have been.

He can keep up with the peloton and carry bottles on flat stages. Don't see any reason he couldn't shelter a team leader from wind as well. That's assisting.

 

[Savant12]

He can keep up with the peloton and carry bottles on flat stages. Don't see any reason he couldn't shelter a team leader from wind as well. That's assisting.

From multiple Grand Tour winner to bottle carrier. Not sure that’s the end of career he wanted.

 

[glassmoon]

Froome is now only 17 seconds behind Nibali in the GC

poor Antonio... must be having really bad week

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Only the one in our hearts and most likely. Unless he and the team go to a small race and they’re the only WT team. I think he could win something there as he can still out smart the others. And if he does win the forum night not work for a day.

He needs to get back to Tour of Mauritius and Anatomic Jock Race.

 

[ppanther92]

He is for sure one of the worst WT pros. When was the last time he finished in a front group? Not even on flat stages he is good enough to hold the tempo. And I honestly can't think of any other pro where this is the case as well. Also I do not think that there is a lot of publicity for Israel Startup Nation outside of hardcore cycling fans. So they probably regret this investment. But then again, thats fully on them.

 

[TMJ]

In yesterday's stage Chris Froome did briefly flash on the front of the peloton as Israel got organised on the right side of the road, within (I think) the last 20kms.
He even got a shout out on the Eurosport commentary.
Then the peloton hit a steep little climb, the power went onto the pedals and Chris Froome was spat out of the back.
In fact he lost an astonishing amount of time and was considerably distanced rapidly and was last seen desperately trying to latch onto the rear of a group of six stragglers.
That's a negative, but it was obviously the plan for Froome to empty himself to aid the team and then quit on the short climb.
I suppose the fact he was still at the head of the race at this point is an improvement.
Maybe these are the small steps he is talking about?
Getting dropped in the last 20k rather than the last 60k.

 

[stonerider]

In yesterday's stage Chris Froome did briefly flash on the front of the peloton as Israel got organised on the right side of the road, within (I think) the last 20kms.
He even got a shout out on the Eurosport commentary.
Then the peloton hit a steep little climb, the power went onto the pedals and Chris Froome was spat out of the back.
In fact he lost an astonishing amount of time and was considerably distanced rapidly and was last seen desperately trying to latch onto the rear of a group of six stragglers.
That's a negative, but it was obviously the plan for Froome to empty himself to aid the team and then quit on the short climb.
I suppose the fact he was still at the head of the race at this point is an improvement.
Maybe these are the small steps he is talking about?
Getting dropped in the last 20k rather than the last 60k.

If he keeps improving at this rate he should be ready to win the Tour de France at age 42.