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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

Page 418 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 26 35.1%
  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 42 56.8%
  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 17 23.0%

  • Total voters
    74
There has been a clear line of succession of the top GT riders and it has always been the person winning three or more Tours.

Bobet-Anquetil-Merckx-Hinault-LeMond-Indurain-Armstrong*-Contador*-Froome. I doubt the next one will be Quintana.

Who was better - Contador or Froome - will have to wait until they've both retired. My guess is it will be Froome.


(*Officially haven't won three, of course)
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.
I don't think it is.
 
Re: Re:

Angliru said:
myrideissteelerthanyours said:
bambino said:
To me he needs to win something else than TDF to be greatest GT rider of the generation. There are 3 GT's at the end. Greatest TDF rider of the generation for sure.

Even if he wins 4th TDF, I'm not going to rate him above Nibali as GT rider. If he also manages to win Vuelta (which I doubt tbh) we can talk again.

Edit: no need to say Berto is still a head above those two.
Froome is simply the top dawg. You can tell because whoever is the best current riders has all the AC fanbois in their thread making borderline-off-topic posts about their lord and savior. Its the most accurate metric you will ever find.

Strangely, the same phenomenon occurs in the Contador threads with Froome/Sky fanbois.
They clearly see Contador as a threat else they wouldn't go into his thread dragging him down every day.
 
Re:

LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.

Yes, that is exactly the question we are discussion, as evidenced by his statement, which i bolded to highlight. Maybe read the thread next time?

MovistarRider said:
To claim that Froome (If he does this years TDF/Vuelta double) is a better pound-for-pound GT rider than the likes of Nibali, Contador and Nairo is one difficult to back up with hard facts.

Also, I clearly made a point to discuss the Nibali-Quintana-Froome comparison and excluding Contador, so there is no need for you to bring him into this side-discussion. And why do you even list the 2010 Tour and the 2011 Giro? The guy was caught doping in 2010 and should not have been allowed in the 2011 Giro if no for him being Spanish (yes, I did just make an not so subtle point about Spain being corrupt). And in either case, he was stripped of that title so why would you even bring it up?
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.
I don't think it is.
The question is best GT rider of this generation. The only objective measure is GT palmares, a subjective measure is the way in which those victories were achieved. You cannot compare peak Froome with post-peak Contador and conclude Froome is better. Or, I guess you can, but you would look quite biased.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Angliru said:
myrideissteelerthanyours said:
bambino said:
To me he needs to win something else than TDF to be greatest GT rider of the generation. There are 3 GT's at the end. Greatest TDF rider of the generation for sure.

Even if he wins 4th TDF, I'm not going to rate him above Nibali as GT rider. If he also manages to win Vuelta (which I doubt tbh) we can talk again.

Edit: no need to say Berto is still a head above those two.
Froome is simply the top dawg. You can tell because whoever is the best current riders has all the AC fanbois in their thread making borderline-off-topic posts about their lord and savior. Its the most accurate metric you will ever find.

Strangely, the same phenomenon occurs in the Contador threads with Froome/Sky fanbois.
They clearly see Contador as a threat else they wouldn't go into his thread dragging him down every day.

You brought him into this discussion. You. None is dragging him down. I stated some facts and moved on with the discussion until you popped up and threw his name into our faces.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
Angliru said:
myrideissteelerthanyours said:
bambino said:
To me he needs to win something else than TDF to be greatest GT rider of the generation. There are 3 GT's at the end. Greatest TDF rider of the generation for sure.

Even if he wins 4th TDF, I'm not going to rate him above Nibali as GT rider. If he also manages to win Vuelta (which I doubt tbh) we can talk again.

Edit: no need to say Berto is still a head above those two.
Froome is simply the top dawg. You can tell because whoever is the best current riders has all the AC fanbois in their thread making borderline-off-topic posts about their lord and savior. Its the most accurate metric you will ever find.

Strangely, the same phenomenon occurs in the Contador threads with Froome/Sky fanbois.
They clearly see Contador as a threat else they wouldn't go into his thread dragging him down every day.
:lol: :lol:
Look who's talking...
 
Nov 29, 2010
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Re:

LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.

"The question is who has the best GT palmares"

Well if that is the question then there's no debate about anything because it really is just numbers. The only point of contention there is how much is a TDF worth compared to the other two. Obviously a Contador fan will reframe any discussion as a palmares issue ...

If the question is who is the better GT rider then it's far more interesting. Froome last year provided the 3 best and craziest moments of the race, I don't think we're really ever going to see any other GC rider riding away from a peloton like that. You also have to contend with the fact that never before has a GT organiser gone consistently out of there way to make a route designed to stop one guy winning.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Walkman said:
bambino said:
To me he needs to win something else than TDF to be greatest GT rider of the generation. There are 3 GT's at the end. Greatest TDF rider of the generation for sure.

Even if he wins 4th TDF, I'm not going to rate him above Nibali as GT rider. If he also manages to win Vuelta (which I doubt tbh) we can talk again.

Edit: no need to say Berto is still a head above those two.

The is no logic to this statement.
Why is it more impressive to win multiple different GTs than winning multiple Tours? Ask any rider in the peloton and they would say that they prefer to win the Tour (bar maybe some homegrown Italian). When going head to head, Fromme has smashed Nibali repeatedly. But somehow you rate him higher because he won inferior races, against inferior competition for the sole reason that they are different. Okey.

Not saying that having a won all three GTs is a small feat, but I think, and do think most people would agree, that 3 tours is better than a Giro, a Tour and a Vuelta.

I think you might find a lot here who disagree with that.

Well, maybe so. I know what I prefer. In miming the deal breaker is the Vuelta. It is clearly well under both the Giro and the Tour in terms of prestige and difficulty. Not seldom has it been a race for those who targeted the Giro and want another crack at a GT or those who failed in the Tour for a variety of reasons.

Do you prefer one of each instead of three Tours? And in that case, why?
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.

"The question is who has the best GT palmares"

Well if that is the question then there's no debate about anything because it really is just numbers. The only point of contention there is how much is a TDF worth compared to the other two. Obviously a Contador fan will reframe any discussion as a palmares issue ...

If the question is who is the better GT rider then it's far more interesting. Froome last year provided the 3 best and craziest moments of the race, I don't think we're really ever going to see any other GC rider riding away from a peloton like that. You also have to contend with the fact that never before has a GT organiser gone consistently out of there way to make a route designed to stop one guy winning.
Somebody probably sees Froome as a threat and tries to find some sort of reasoning on how to pull that threat down.
 
Re: Re:

deValtos said:
LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.

"The question is who has the best GT palmares"

Well if that is the question then there's no debate about anything because it really is just numbers. The only point of contention there is how much is a TDF worth compared to the other two. Obviously a Contador fan will reframe any discussion as a palmares issue ...

If the question is who is the better GT rider then it's far more interesting. Froome last year provided the 3 best and craziest moments of the race, I don't think we're really ever going to see any other GC rider riding away from a peloton like that. You also have to contend with the fact that never before has a GT organiser gone consistently out of there way to make a route designed to stop one guy winning.
Sorry - wasn't the original discussion 'If Froome wins the Tour and Vuelta would that make him the best GT rider of this generation'? How do you not bring palmares into that? Or in your opinion should we pick a random moment in time when one of the riders in the discussion is at his peak and another isn't and draw our conclusions from that? Does that seem more objective to you?
 
Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
LaFlorecita said:
silvergrenade said:
:lol: :lol:
Look who's talking...
Just showing how dumb that troll's logic is.
You talking about yourself? :lol: :lol:
no, about someone who's been trolling Contador fans since before you joined this forum. If you genuinely believe I am a troll maybe you should look up the definition in an online dictionary.
 
Re: Re:

Walkman said:
LaFlorecita said:
The question is not who is now the best GT rider. If we use that logic Froome is better than Merckx :rolleyes: The question is who has the best GT palmares. And the facts are:
Froome 3 TDF, 0 Giro, 0 Vuelta
Contador 2 (3) TDF, 2 (3) Giro, 3 Vuelta
Nibali 1 TDF, 2 Giro, 1 Vuelta
Quintana 0 TDF, 1 Giro, 1 Vuelta

Them's the facts. Can't argue with them, however much Froomie fanboys would like to.

Yes, that is exactly the question we are discussion, as evidenced by his statement, which i bolded to highlight. Maybe read the thread next time?

MovistarRider said:
To claim that Froome (If he does this years TDF/Vuelta double) is a better pound-for-pound GT rider than the likes of Nibali, Contador and Nairo is one difficult to back up with hard facts.

Also, I clearly made a point to discuss the Nibali-Quintana-Froome comparison and excluding Contador, so there is no need for you to bring him into this side-discussion. And why do you even list the 2010 Tour and the 2011 Giro? The guy was caught doping in 2010 and should not have been allowed in the 2011 Giro if no for him being Spanish (yes, I did just make an not so subtle point about Spain being corrupt). And in either case, he was stripped of that title so why would you even bring it up?

Maybe you should read the thread again... the discussion did not start from your statements. It started from SeriousSam claiming Froome will "for sure" be best GT rider of history over any current active riders.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
silvergrenade said:
LaFlorecita said:
silvergrenade said:
:lol: :lol:
Look who's talking...
Just showing how dumb that troll's logic is.
You talking about yourself? :lol: :lol:
no, about someone who's been trolling Contador fans since before you joined this forum. If you genuinely believe I am a troll maybe you should look up the definition in an online dictionary.

You are the one who shoves the Froome hate wherever you go..
Meh...
But yeah, think what you want to.
I, for one, would want Contador to have a great tour....
I dont think you'd ever say that for Froome. :rolleyes:
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
kingjr said:
The Giro is a race for Italians and for those not good enough or too chicken to win a Tour.
The Giro is a race for those who have a passion for our sport and aren't just mindless robots. Any rider who's raced both the Giro and Tour prefers the Giro. You should know that.
Contador has in many interviews said that he prefers the Tour over any other race...
The man is crazy about winning the Tour.
He's kept his dog's name as Tour.
He's forgone his retirement to try and win the Tour.
:confused:
 
Re: Re:

silvergrenade said:
You are the one who shoves the Froome hate wherever you go..
Meh...
But yeah, think what you want to.
I, for one, would want Contador to have a great tour....
I dont think you'd ever say that for Froome. :rolleyes:
You want him to have a great Tour - yes, you wouldn't mind if he came 2nd to Froome.
I wouldn't mind if Froome came 2nd to Contador or Aru. There's your answer.
I am not anti-Froome, I am pro-my favorites. Unfortunately Froome is often in the way of success for my favorites but what it comes down to is that I focus on what my favorites do and couldn't care less about Froome.
 
Re: Re:

LaFlorecita said:
kingjr said:
The Giro is a race for Italians and for those not good enough or too chicken to win a Tour.
The Giro is a race for those who have a passion for our sport and aren't just mindless robots. Any rider who's raced both the Giro and Tour prefers the Giro. You should know that.
Bla bla bla, spare me this romanticism. Froome is a human being, this mindless robot thing is something you create in your head. I stand by what I said.
And I never said the Tour is more fun to ride, that's not my point.

couldn't care less about Froome.

That's not the same as wanting him to do great, right? Not that I believe a word of what silvergrenade says.
 

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