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Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

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Is Froome over the hill?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 28 35.0%

  • No, the GC finished 40 minutes ago but Froomie is still climbing it

    Votes: 46 57.5%

  • No he is totally winning the Vuelta

    Votes: 18 22.5%
  • Total voters
    80
Anybody_but..

Anybody_but..

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dercuforever said:
Why do you want people to retire just because they can't win anymore ?
What kind of mindset is that ? If a rider wants to keep riding, let him be.
Click to expand...
Why?
Because, it is so painful to watch him as a member of grupetto all the time
He has some options:
  1. the best - to find his own Angrilu and finish his era as Contador did 3 years ago- but it is too late I'm afaid;
  2. the only possible - to retire to finish being a ridiculous member of grupetto - please do it, as soon as possible;
  3. to be an entity of silly remarks about "the bag", as Nibali is - he shouldn't allow to be;

4. ... and to find his own Koronin - and we will have a lot of fun - the worst option but thanks God the least probably right now.
 
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Anybody_but.. said:
Why?
Because, it is so painful to watch him as a member of grupetto all the time
He has some options:
  1. the best - to find his own Angrilu and finish his era as Contador did 3 years ago- but it is too late I'm afaid;
  2. the only possible - to retire to finish being a ridiculous member of grupetto - please do it, as soon as possible;
  3. to be an entity of silly remarks about "the bag", as Nibali is - he shouldn't allow to be;
4. ... and to find his own Koronin - and we will have a lot of fun - the worst option but thanks God the least probably right now.
Click to expand...


For 4, I think his wife Michelle, already has that taken care of. LOL.
 
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md1975

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dercuforever said:
Why do you want people to retire just because they can't win anymore ?
What kind of mindset is that ? If a rider wants to keep riding, let him be.
Click to expand...

Plus, who is to say he can't ride still and win? He has started many times that he is not 100% and is just trying to get back to that. He is busting his butt to do so. All that seems to be missing his the burst and his ability to hold high watts. But, his numbers say as the Vuelta went on. He pulled well and that was his job. He also held higher watts than some of the other top GC riders. He just couldn't sustain it over the full race/stage. If he can next year, and we have no doubt he is going to be training like a beast... Who knows
 
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and also, fitter riders as Dumoulin and Pinot that could have had better goals during the race, DNF the Vuelta, and yet Froome gets laughed at. not a word about them.
there is NO RIDER ever I wish a full comeback as Froome. the chap is hard as nails. I so want him to shut up ppl next year
 
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pink_jersey

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I'm 100% sure that he will improve next year. Not sure if he can rival Roglic/Pogacar in the Tour but he will surely be in some kind of GC battle(top 10). But more importantly I think the quality of races will improve with him. If he shows some form, Jumbo can't use the train tactic again because he will be feared in the time trials and with his weak teams Froome yoyoing Vuelta style on MTF will be really fun.

I think people dislike him because in his pump he was so much stronger than everyone else that everything he did seemed boring but in hindisght the guy is really gutsy and always tried to put on a show. From 2013 he was always the guy who initiated things in races(not only in TdF). Just remember AX3 and Ventoux in 2013, that first Dauphine stage in 2014 when he attacked Contador 20 times :)), him destroying everyone on his mother on Pierre St. Martin, Bagneres de Luchon and Montpellier in 2016. His only unremarkable performance was in TdF 2017 but it was obvious that he hold something back for the Vuelta. Vuelta in which after Contador who was batshit crazy and attacked on every elevation he was still the most active rider even if he had the yellow jersey for the whole race basically. About 2018 Giro I will not even talk. That Finestre stage is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. His win on Zoncolan was also a nice one even though Yates gifted that win to him,
 
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pink_jersey said:
I'm 100% sure that he will improve next year. Not sure if he can rival Roglic/Pogacar in the Tour but he will surely be in some kind of GC battle(top 10). But more importantly I think the quality of races will improve with him. If he shows some form, Jumbo can't use the train tactic again because he will be feared in the time trials and with his weak teams Froome yoyoing Vuelta style on MTF will be really fun.

I think people dislike him because in his pump he was so much stronger than everyone else that everything he did seemed boring but in hindisght the guy is really gutsy and always tried to put on a show. From 2013 he was always the guy who initiated things in races(not only in TdF). Just remember AX3 and Ventoux in 2013, that first Dauphine stage in 2014 when he attacked Contador 20 times :)), him destroying everyone on his mother on Pierre St. Martin, Bagneres de Luchon and Montpellier in 2016. His only unremarkable performance was in TdF 2017 but it was obvious that he hold something back for the Vuelta. Vuelta in which after Contador who was batshit crazy and attacked on every elevation he was still the most active rider even if he had the yellow jersey for the whole race basically. About 2018 Giro I will not even talk. That Finestre stage is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. His win on Zoncolan was also a nice one even though Yates gifted that win to him,
Click to expand...
Not even his biggest fan but the fact is only Contador and Quintana have matched him at any point since his dominance started and even then it was for small periods. Just a sustained level of dominance and I dont think any rider today could finish within 3-4 minutes of him on AX 3 or Ventoux.

Would have loved to see 2009 Contador vs Ventoux Froome, but thats something ill dream of until i die.
 
Red Rick

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Scarponi said:
Not even his biggest fan but the fact is only Contador and Quintana have matched him at any point since his dominance started and even then it was for small periods. Just a sustained level of dominance and I dont think any rider today could finish within 3-4 minutes of him on AX 3 or Ventoux.

Would have loved to see 2009 Contador vs Ventoux Froome, but thats something ill dream of until i die.
Click to expand...
What?

They've largely been crushing 2013 era climbing times this season.
 
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pink_jersey

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I genuinely think that in 2013 the level was really high and Froomey was out of this world that year. No other tour winner besides AC and LA is capable of keeping the jersey in that infamous Sky collapse in Bagneres de Biggore just a day after they demolished everyone on Palieheres and Ax 3.
Also, looking back at the parcours that year the mountain stages were really hard. Ventoux, Alpe and Semnoz(hope they will use that climb again in the future) and Paliehers -Ax 3 combo. That's hard. And Bagneres de Biggore and Le Grand Bornard were really great stages for ambush but you absolutely couldn't do a thing to that Froome. Decent amount of ITT also.
 
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Krzysztof_O

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pink_jersey said:
That was probably an exageration but I also think that the likes of Roglic and Pogacar couldn't match Froome pace in Ax and Ventoux. At best they would have climbed with Porte or just a few seconds faster. But Froome level, no way.
Click to expand...

Pogacar's rides on Peyresourde and Planches de Beilles Filles (with VAM of about 1850 m/h) are among best climbing performances ever seen. Why would he lose a lot of time to Froome?
 
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pink_jersey

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I don't just look at the numbers. For exemple, Pogacar didn't climbed much faster than Richie Porte this year. And Porte was 1 minute behind Froome that day. I still think that Froome wins those tours regardless of competition. Do you think if needed, Froome couldn't match those VAM's back in the day?
 
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pink_jersey said:
I don't just look at the numbers. For exemple, Pogacar didn't climbed much faster than Richie Porte this year. And Porte was 1 minute behind Froome that day. I still think that Froome wins those tours regardless of competition. Do you think if needed, Froome couldn't match those VAM's back in the day?
Click to expand...

The tempo of the group of favourites was very fast on Peyresourde but Pogacar put over 40 s on them in a short distance. As for Planches de Beilles Filles stage Pogacar literally crushed the whole field (with 1'20'' of gain over his closest rival). That being said, the climbing tempo of the favourites group was unusually fast during the whole Tour (and it was hard to dominate). You just can't neglect the sustained VAM of 1850 m/h, which seems close to the physiological limit of top cyclists (at least for moderately steep 7-8% climbs) and I don't know if Froome ever maintained such climbing speed for 20 or so minutes (his Ax3Domaines climb, similar to Peyresourde in length and gradient, was in 1700-1750 m/h range, though I understand that each situation is different and they can't be compared easily: climb characteristics, cumulative fatigue, weather conditions etc).
 
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Krzysztof_O said:
The tempo of the group of favourites was very fast on Peyresourde but Pogacar put over 40 s on them in a short distance. As for Planches de Beilles Filles stage Pogacar literally crushed the whole field (with 1'20'' of gain over his closest rival). That being said, the climbing tempo of the favourites group was unusually fast during the whole Tour (and it was hard to dominate). You just can't neglect the sustained VAM of 1850 m/h, which seems close to the physiological limit of top cyclists (at least for moderately steep 7-8% climbs) and I don't know if Froome ever maintained such climbing speed for 20 or so minutes (his Ax3Domaines climb, similar to Peyresourde in length and gradient, was in 1700-1750 m/h range, though I understand that each situation is different and they can't be compared easily: climb characteristics, cumulative fatigue, weather conditions etc).
Click to expand...
I share your conclusion. Numbers do tell the tale that everyone in the front groups are following at a very high rate. Attacking off of that really depends on the individual and Poga seems to thrive and recover well from those episodes. Roglic to a lesser extent.
Froome...watching Quintana work him over on several occasions suggested he definitely relied on his team most of the time. The comparison of Froome at his best to any of the current GC top riders is pretty much a guessing game as the riders don't exist in the same time frame will never be at peak simultaneously. Froome will probably never be there again.
 
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pink_jersey said:
I'm 100% sure that he will improve next year. Not sure if he can rival Roglic/Pogacar in the Tour but he will surely be in some kind of GC battle(top 10). But more importantly I think the quality of races will improve with him. If he shows some form, Jumbo can't use the train tactic again because he will be feared in the time trials and with his weak teams Froome yoyoing Vuelta style on MTF will be really fun.

I think people dislike him because in his pump he was so much stronger than everyone else that everything he did seemed boring but in hindisght the guy is really gutsy and always tried to put on a show. From 2013 he was always the guy who initiated things in races(not only in TdF). Just remember AX3 and Ventoux in 2013, that first Dauphine stage in 2014 when he attacked Contador 20 times :)), him destroying everyone on his mother on Pierre St. Martin, Bagneres de Luchon and Montpellier in 2016. His only unremarkable performance was in TdF 2017 but it was obvious that he hold something back for the Vuelta. Vuelta in which after Contador who was batshit crazy and attacked on every elevation he was still the most active rider even if he had the yellow jersey for the whole race basically. About 2018 Giro I will not even talk. That Finestre stage is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. His win on Zoncolan was also a nice one even though Yates gifted that win to him,
Click to expand...


Remember Ax3 and the Ventoux? It's those rides that turned people against him. The sight of a super-skinny Froome's egg-whisk attacks left people shaking their heads in disbelief as he surged away from the best riders in the world.
Apart from that Sky was the key to his success. Do we think he could have won so many GT's on another team? No chance.
So the combo of the Sky train and Froome's mid-career transformation (coupled with notable weight-loss and massive power increase) are big reasons people do not like him.
Despite what I've just said I'll root for him to win number 5 'cos I see the sport for what it is, entertainment best enjoyed when you suspend belief and don't tie yourself in knots trying to work out what is really going on.
 
Red Rick

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Scarponi said:
I did not know the times were better. So when Froome sprint attacks severel riders they just cross to him and then put time into him despite him going full ball, I just cannot see it. Maybe the good times come from the train lasting until 1km to go where its just a sprint who knows.
Click to expand...
The faster times comes from the overall level being higher. Pogacar smashed the PdBF and Peyresourde records on his own, without trains. It's not even remotely close either. Sky train caused the damage in the peloton and gaps to be huge, but the train wasn't faster than what Pogacar did all on his own on a PdbF while changing his bike lol. He was also literally 2 minutes faster on the Peyresourde than Contador/Rasmussen. 2013 Froome largely wasn't much faster than Schleck/Contador in 2010 and 2009, nor was he miles ahead of 2014 Nibali or Quintana's best climbinb performances.
 
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