Teams & Riders Chris Froome Discussion Thread.

[Savant12]

Froome is looking lean in his latest video. I hope the recovery is there and he can get in another mountain breakaway.

 

[Red Rick]

Sure, they are going faster, and there have been some advancements, possibly better riders, too. But between old / oldish guard riders like Quintana, Tomas, Bardet, and Yates hanging in there on big climbs at least periodically throughout the season and producing large numbers to a comparison of some of the numbers copied below, I'm not seeing evidence that peak Froome and Contador couldn't get on the Tour podium, as Bruyneel stated, or win a Tour. GT isn't even out of it this year at age 36. And he was never on the level of Froome and Contador.

Look at this comparison of Froome and Vingegaard. Pick some points, say 10 minutes. Froome is at ~7.1; Vingo is at ~6.8. Let's do 20. Froome is at ~6.6; Vingo is at 6.4. Vingo's curve is likely understated here because it overweights last year's climbs vs. this years. But Froome also has higher outliers as well; he seems to just suck at the Alpe, which has taken his performance down.

These charts look really cool, but I think they have a tendency to omit a lot of data. Especially for Froome, with a much longer career at the top level, there should be many more data points but they're not there. It makes no sense to include Col de Romme for Vingegaard but exclude climbs where Froome got obliterated like Los Muchachos. Also these graphs, because they focus on the highest outputs, will exclude many of the most difficult stages with massive time gaps.

In short, if we could literally teleport Vingegaard to 2013, I fully believe he beats Froome with his eyes closed. Does that mean he's a better rider than Froome/Contador? Not really, when guys like Thomas also got over a minute faster on AdH. I think eem, let's say 'environmental' factors changed.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

This thread doesn't need me any more
It has regained a momentum of its own.
Unwatch!

 

[Pinot's goat]

Everyone’s going faster than Pinot too, re: your username

Pinot was keeping up just fine post lockdown before the back injury.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Froome missing 0.5W/kg. So more like 30-40W instead of 10-15W.

View: https://youtu.be/DnMRAPCerVE?t=226

Froome's 10-15W statement is based off a 20 min training test, can't be compared to actual racing situations let alone a queen stage of TDF.

 

[Taxus4a]

Do you mean that he was better this year when he finished third vs 30th in 2008?

Yes, that day he showed he was among the 15 strongest riders of that Tour for the Queen stage...this year he is maybe among the 30...but It is difficukt to evaluate, becouse this year he is not loosing too much time any stage, that year yes...but becouse he was working...this Tour he is not working as he used to do the last year. But Froome that Tour was impressive, acording the circunstances of his team, that he was not predicted to ride that Tour, that he was quite new in cycling... not easy to come from Africa. But of course is his mental strentgh the diferente...he is not Evenepoel, much more new is cycling and winning Clásica de San Sebastián at 19...different development of riders. he is not Valverde Who doenst need to train hard to fly on the races... Froome had 2 years later with some good result, but most of them quite poor..and for that reason In didnt expect what happened in 2011..but It wanst a surprise looking at his 2008 Tour...

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes, that day he showed he was among the 15 strongest riders of that Tour for the Queen stage...this year he is maybe among the 30...but It is difficukt to evaluate, becouse this year he is not loosing too much time any stage, that year yes...but becouse he was working...this Tour he is not working as he used to do the last year. But Froome that Tour was impressive, acording the circunstances of his team, that he was not predicted to ride that Tour, that he was quite new in cycling... not easy to come from Africa. But of course is his mental strentgh the diferente...he is not Evenepoel, much more new is cycling and winning Clásica de San Sebastián at 19...different development of riders. he is not Valverde Who doenst need to train hard to fly on the races... Froome had 2 years later with some good result, but most of them quite poor..and for that reason In didnt expect what happened in 2011..but It wanst a surprise looking at his 2008 Tour...

How can someone be so delusional? This is pure trolling.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

These charts look really cool, but I think they have a tendency to omit a lot of data. Especially for Froome, with a much longer career at the top level, there should be many more data points but they're not there. It makes no sense to include Col de Romme for Vingegaard but exclude climbs where Froome got obliterated like Los Muchachos. Also these graphs, because they focus on the highest outputs, will exclude many of the most difficult stages with massive time gaps.

In short, if we could literally teleport Vingegaard to 2013, I fully believe he beats Froome with his eyes closed. Does that mean he's a better rider than Froome/Contador? Not really, when guys like Thomas also got over a minute faster on AdH. I think eem, let's say 'environmental' factors changed.

This was all a roundabout way of arguing that you are not going to convince me that if you gave 2009 Contador this Jumbo squad he wouldn’t win some Tours. For some reason just saw this documentary for the first time. The Lance stuff is a bit tough to watch, but it was a good reminder of what a legend Contador is for that Tour alone. 2nd in the prologue, insane Verbier climbing performance, 1st in the ITT over Cancelara (and it wasn’t a MTT). Ventoux was a walk in the park when the Tour was in the bag, which is why the numbers were low there.

View: https://youtu.be/gj8R5u10TwY

 

[bigcog]

Back up to 27th on GC. If he holds onto that or higher at the end, not a bad result.

 

[roundabout]

Back up to 27th on GC. If he holds onto that or higher at the end, not a bad result.

29th, one should wait for all riders to come in.

But yes, not a bad result and it does not seem that his form is getting worse as the race goes on

 

[skippo12]

Another round of COVID tests + A few guys in front of him will be on all out domestique duty

If his form isn´t getting worse he should be able to move up a couple of spots in the 3rd week.

 

[memyselfandI]

Probably he's not thinking his gc result about at all. Doesn't mean absolutely anything to him to be 23rd or 17th or 11th when palmares like that.. More likely in a search of 100% output of both legs and body and to shoot it into some proper stages.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Probably he's not thinking his gc result about at all. Doesn't mean absolutely anything to him to be 23rd or 17th or 11th when palmares like that.. More likely in a search of 100% output of both legs and body and to shoot it into some proper stages.

I think finishing high on GC and stages mean the most to him. Just because looking at 11th overall doesn’t add much to his career when looking at it as a snapshot, it would mean a lot to him reaching that point when the last 2 years he was struggling and riding with the sprinters.

 

[bigcog]

Another decent performance. Ok not top level but finished with Mas and dropped Bardet. Can he finish in the top 20 ?

 

[roundabout]

25 minutes behind top 20, so I am guessing it's unlikely as he is still probably lacking the top end power to make breaks on flat starts

 

[Pinot's goat]

The climbs tomorrow are perfect for him if he manages to make the break.

 

[ppanther92]

I think finishing high on GC and stages mean the most to him. Just because looking at 11th overall doesn’t add much to his career when looking at it as a snapshot, it would mean a lot to him reaching that point when the last 2 years he was struggling and riding with the sprinters.

Also have this impression. I think there was not a single moment when he did let go. And test himself on GC - thats what he was used to for years now. So why not of that gives him the most personally?

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

He is 25th in GC, now, apparently… That‘s very good. So he‘s back to the Top-25 of the world‘s best stage racers. I would not have expected that. There were times when I thought he would never again be in this Top-25.

If he defends 25th rank in GC until Paris, it was a great Tour for him. 25th in GC, 3rd in AdH - great results. Happy for Froomedog.

 

[Amazinmets87]

He is 25th in GC, now, apparently… That‘s very good. So he‘s back to the Top-25 of the world‘s best stage racers. I would not have expected that. There were times when I thought he would never again be in this Top-25.

If he defends 25th rank in GC until Paris, it was a great Tour for him. 25th in GC, 3rd in AdH - great results. Happy for Froomedog.

Wouldn't say he's top 25. We have to take into consideration both the riders who aren't racing the tour, and those who are but are sacrificing their own chances in support of their team leader.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Great for Froomey. He wasn’t as full of it as we thought, even if he’s nowhere near winning form.

 

[pastronef]

Wouldn't say he's top 25. We have to take into consideration both the riders who aren't racing the tour, and those who are but are sacrificing their own chances in support of their team leader.

you race against the racers IN the race. riders absent from races and team mates working for leaders ARE part of racing.
and I don't even care if he's 25th or 32nd. the fact he's getting better is what matters. seeing him with Pidcock, chasing the break and getting 3rd on Alpe was great. today he arrived with Mas and Pinot. remember people mocking him just last month.
I am biased I know, there's no athlete in any sport I ever cheered as much as Froome for his comeback

 

[Eclipse]

Today was obviously less high profile than Alpe d'huez, but in some ways I think this was perhaps a better performance given his ride was around the GC group throughout the day and he came in with riders in 11th and 12th overall while not far off guys who are currently top 10.

If he can get into a break there might still be a stage there for him which would be absolutely mad but very well deserved.

 

[tonymikejoe]

I couldn't believe it when I saw a gangly figure, elbows sticking out, hanging onto the back of the yellow jersey group on the final big climb of the day.
Froome seems to want to push himself to remain with the best riders for as long as possible to see where he is form-wise/recovery rather than take it easy and save energy for a stage breakaway in the next two days.
Even though he was with those top climbers he was not amongst it and simply hanging onto the back.
He knows his body and what these performances indicate.
Does he he have another level or two within him?
Will we ever see those egg whisk feet and insane watts leaving the best climbers in his wake ever again?
I am fascinated to see if there is more to come or if Froome has reached his plateau and would love to see him in another breakaway.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Yeah, and I suppose, should Vingegaard win this TdF, some might say, „Ah, if Vingegaard can win the TdF, then Froome can win it still, too!“…

For Chris, all that counts is a fifth TdF GC victory. Next year 2023, I think he could achieve Top-10. Then, 2024 could be his year, to win a fifth Tour. Excited to watch his development…!

 

[macbindle]

He'd be 39. Pog will be 25, and Vinegar will be 27.

I'm not sure what the future holds for Froome, but I don't think it includes an 8th GT win.